Hello and a couple questions

Hi everyone,

I just started researching champagnes to figure out which recent vintage of Dom Perignon I should get for a special occasion (I got a '96 by the way) and now I've gotten kind of hooked. I've bought four other bottles (a Perrier Jouet NV which I brought to dinner at a friend's), a Pol Roger NV, Taittinger NV, and a Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label (don't be angry, I didn't know any better!).

I haven't really had real champagne before, I think. I liked the Perrier Jouet so much, though, that I want to keep trying new wines to see what's out there. Of course, I don't want to spend a lot of money, but I will if it's worth it!

So I was wondering, does anyone know what the better stores in the Boston area are for champagne/sparkling wine? I live on the north shore and work in Waltham, but I go into the city pretty frequently. The more important factor is price, I guess -- I looked at BLM Wine's prices and they seem marked up about 20%-30% over what I've seen in other stores.

The second question is regarding a store I already found in my hometown. They didn't have much of a selection of champagne, but they did have quite a few bottles of Pol Roger 1990 (for $85 a bottle I think) and of the 1996 vintage (at about $50-60, I believe). Is this actually a good deal? I read a review by someone that suggested that the '90 is passing its ideal drinking window, but what about the '96?

Anyway, sorry for the long message, but thanks in advance for your help and especially for the great forum! I'm learning so much already.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Welcome WLDG.

You can check comparative prices at many retailers using Wine Searcher at http://www.wine-searcher.com/

This comes in a Pro version which will allow you to find many other retailers and their prices, but the basic version does a really good job of comparative prices.

Let us know what you thought of the champagnes you try.

Regards, Bob

Hi, Dan, we spoke at this past Sunday's Forum Chat on this subject.

My personal opinion is that Dom Perignon, while good, seems like schlock compared to some of its competitors in the premium cuvee category. For those sorts of prices, I'd opt for Veuve-Cliquot La Grande Dame, or Pol Roget Cuvee Winston Churchill, over Dom Perignon any day.

Better yet, go for Krug Grand Cuvee. A bit more $$$, perhaps, but worth it. In this case, you DO get what you pay for.

Regarding wine stores for Champagne in the Boston area, the usual fine wine suspects come to mind:

The Wine Cask in Somerville
Winecellar of Silene in Waltham (at the Winter Street exit off rte 128)
BLM
Marty's (corner of Comm Ave and Harvard Ave)
Gordon's

-Paul W.

I overlooked your second question in my previous reply.

I consider Pol Roger one of the best of the Champagne houses. Their vintage stuff if excellent. Due to the weak dollar, all Champagne prices are painfully high these days. The question with these wines ('90 and '96 Pol Roger vintage Champagnes) is, as with all older wine purchases, the provenance. If they've been stored well, no problem. But Champagne in particular damages easily, so if these have been kept, say, under floodlights in a warm storefront for 10 years, they're to be avoided. On the other hand, if kept well, they could be magnificent.

So ask the merchant when these wines were bought, by whom, how they were shipped from France (in particular, was it under temperature control, and in what time of year), and under what conditions they've been kept since then. A wine merchant worth his snuff will have complete and satisfactory answers to all of these points. Otherwise I say give the wine a miss.

On another issue: Veuve Cliquot Yellow Label is not very good as Champagne goes. But the house does much better with its vintage and especially the La Grande Dame line. La Grande Dame Rose is excellent, if you can find it.

-Paul W.

Thanks guys for answering!

I actually bought all the bottles I have now (save the Dom Perignon) from Wine Cellar of Silene as it's about a two-minute drive from where I work (and on the way home to boot). I'm not too happy that it was one of their guys who recommended the Veuve Clicquot. Their prices are okay, though, and their selection is quite good indeed.

As for the Dom Perignon, I presumed that it may be an overpriced champagne due to its famous name, but I had no alternative. It had to be Dom Perignon because the plan is for my girlfriend and me to watch one of our favorite Bond movies on our anniversary, and there's no other champagne I could offer other than this one. Maybe Bollinger, I suppose, but Dom Perignon is the one associated with Bond, right? I guess it was partly due to my guilt at buying something I knew wasn't going to be a great value that I decided to try some better-value bottles. At least the '96 is supposed to be a great one and I got it for $150... which is the same price as the inferior '98 at the hotel where we'll be staying.

As for Krug, et al., I don't think I'm willing to keep spending that much money on champagne! This is kind of a one-time thing... after this, I'm fairly sure I'll be sticking to bottles under or around $40. And then I need to branch out into other kinds of wines, so that I know more than just champagne and port!

As for Krug, et al., I don't think I'm willing to keep spending that much money on champagne! This is kind of a one-time thing... after this, I'm fairly sure I'll be sticking to bottles under or around $40. And then I need to branch out into other kinds of wines, so that I know more than just champagne and port!

Dan, I totally agree with those sorts of sentiments. There are many options in the $40 range. I'm fond of Pol Roger or Gosset.

But if you're going to do a one-time splurge into expensive Champagne, you might as well get it right. And that means Krug Grand Cuvee (at the low end), compared to which Dom Perignon is trailer trash. To hell with James Bond, who, after all, was a thug pretending to be upper-class. If you're going to be spending money at this level in Champagne, you might as well spend the extra $$$ to get the best, and that's Krug, hands down. Krug's low end starts where the other houses' high end leaves off.

-Paul W.

Comparing Dom Perignon side-by-side with Krug Grand Cuvee, I was shaken, not stirred.

-Paul W.

Naw, Bollinger is associated with Bond too (at least one of the iterations of Bond). And Bolly is infinitely better (which is a cute wine geek way of saying "I like their style way better", btw) than Dom Perignon.

Bollinger is also associated with "Absolutely Fabulous", in their cocktail "Bolly and Stolli" (equal parts Bollinger Champagne and Stolichnaya vodka).

Anything approved by both James Bond AND Edina and Patsy can't be all bad, can it, sweetie darling?

-Paul W.

hi dan - there is another post about champagne that lists some good and reasonably priced 'grower' champagnes. i'd search these out too. the ones that have been mentioned so far are the 'negociant' houses - often good and usually reliable; but, well, try the grower stuff too.

the pol roger '96 sounds like a good deal - it being a very very fine example of what may turn out to be the finest vintage of your lifetime. the 90 would probably be too old for me; but.....

i do and don't agree with others on veuve clicquot yellow label. the problem there is that unless you can find the lot number on the bottle, and know the quality of that particular lot, then you may be getting a real pig in a poke as it were. the problem concerns one of champagnes dirty little secrets - buying from other producers 'sur latte'. houses like veuve who have increased their sales enormously in the last few years often find themselves short and buy already bottled stuff from others. their own stuff is still pretty good; but you never know if that is what you are getting.

if there is still more stuff from '96 available in your area at an even remotely reasonable price, buy it. also, on your list of higher end products, everyone has ignored one of the very best - laurent perrier cuvee grand siecle. they do not normally produce a vintage version - instead this is a multi-vintage product. they choose 3 very fine vintages that compliment each other and age them together. the current one in your area MAY be based on the '96 ; but it is always one of the most subtle and 'complete' champagnes available.

i also recommend visiting champagne. sometimes you can get there more quickly than downtown paris from the airport. it is a pretty and uncrowded place and you can easily drink good champagne all day long for under $20/bottle. best wishes; david

Hi again and sorry it's taken so long to respond! I went skiing on Monday, got back last night, and was working today.

Anyway, I understand what you all are saying about the Dom Perignon, but as I said, it was something I decided on, for better or for worse. I did do a good deal of passive (i.e., non-posting) research on which Dom Perignon to buy, during which I looked into other champagnes as well just out of curiosity. And it came down to this -- do I pull out a bottle of a champagne that may be better than Dom Perignon and cost a little less, but I have to explain to my girlfriend that it's really awesome that I have this? Or do I pull out a bottle of Dom Perignon which she will recognize and will think is cute (if a bit extravagant) for going with the movie we're watching? It'll probably be The Spy who Loved Me anyway, where the champagne is Dom Perignon. Though an earlier vintage, I should think. So, next time I splurge on champagne (when I'm making seven figures), I'll be sure to buy a vintage Krug... but this time, it had to be Dom Perignon. I hope that doesn't piss you guys off too much... sorry!

Thanks for the suggestions for lower-priced stuff as well. I've been writing down your suggestions as well as those in the "Holiday Champagne" thread and some recommended by thewinedoctor.com and carrying them around in my wallet for when I go to a liquor store. So far, though, I have yet to find a single one of those suggested... to my great disappointment. I have enjoyed a few bottles of champagne and other sparkling wines so far, though, so here's what I've thought... very briefly (and don't expect too many expert terms here)...

1. Perrier-Jouet NV ($37-ish at Wine Cellar of Silene -- Waltham, MA)
As a first champagne experience, I can't say that I could have asked for more. Though a brut, it actually tasted sweet. A little creamy perhaps (I've seen that term used a lot), but really I think sweet is a better way to describe it. It made it taste a little fruity. The carbonation balanced this out, however, making the experience wholly delightful. I will be getting more of these.

2. Cristalino ($6.99... yes, a big jump down).
Though I had a few bottles of recommended champagne waiting to be opened, I'm trying to save those for the champagne tasting party I'm having with some friends on Sunday. So when I suggested doing a wine tasting with a friend of mine, we went to Vinnin Liquors in Swampscott, MA (a decent place, by the way) and picked up a few bottles of sparkling wine. I saw the Cristalino suggested in another thread as a cheapy good enough to be served for New Year's. To be honest, I couldn't agree less. I could not drink this stuff. So sour that acidic is a term to be used only if you mean "tasting like pure citric acid poured down your throat." It was rather flat to boot. I gulped down the rest of the glass for minimal taste-bud contact and moved on to...

3. Roederer Estate ($18.99 at Vinnin Liquors)
Though more than twice the price, this one didn't please much more than the Cristalino. Almost as sour, though moving into the range where I would feel less disingenuous calling it "strongly acidic." It wasn't flat like the Cristalino, which helped. But I really didn't enjoy this one either, to be honest. I had another glass because I felt bad wasting so much wine. My friend also had another glass of this one, but not of the Cristalino.

4. Roederer Brut Premier NV ($30-something-ish at Vinnin Liquors)
I tried this on another night when my brother came into town from Chicago. I was hoping I would enjoy this more than the California garbage, and I'm happy to say that it did not disappoint. Acidic for sure and perhaps a little metallic (only slightly), but in what I could only describe as an energetic sort of way. I read in the winedoctor review that a few years in the cellar would take the "edge" off. Well, I have no experience keeping champagne in my cellar, but there's definitely an edge. But it's not necessarily a bad thing, and I rather enjoyed this one. My brother did too. I'd still prefer the Perrier-Jouet, but this was fun and more a different experience than an inferior one.

5. Zardetto Prosecco ($10.99 at Vinnin)
My first good sparkling wine! And at a good price. My brother and I drank this straight on the heels of the Roederer, but I assure you, our minds were clear and our taste buds focused. Leaned a little to the acidic but good carbonation, good balance, and overall a lot of fun. This is what I'd recommend as a reasonably priced sparkling wine. Of course, I haven't tried all that many........


Remaining to try:
Champagnes:
*Taittinger NV ($35-ish I think at Wine Cellar of Silene)
*Piper-Heidsieck Champagne Brut NV ($30 at Vinnin Liquors)
*Pol Roger NV (around $33 at Wine Cellar of Silene)
*Veuve-Clicquot Ponsardin (won't say how much I may have wasted)
and *Dom Perignon 1996

Sparkling wines:
*Domaine Ste. Michelle BdB, $12 at NH Liquor Commission store
*Mionetto, around same price

P.S.
I was at the NH Liquor Commission store on the way back from skiing looking for some good prices on Pol Roger. They didn't have any... or any champagnes at a competitive price... so instead I got myself the two sparklers mentioned above, a Warre's Otima 10-yr tawny for less than $16 (yummy) and a Blanton's Single Barrel (sorry, I like bourbon too) for around $35. Man, I love those stores.