The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (Long!)

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Wink Lorch

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

157

Joined

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:16 pm

Location

London/France

Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (Long!)

by Wink Lorch » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:24 am

Any of WLDG readers who are also paid-up ‘Purple Pagers’ on http://www.jancisrobinson.com may have read some of this already.

On the 8th December I attended the first general meeting of the new Centre d’Ampélographie Alpine Pierre Galet (the Pierre Galet Centre for Alpine Ampelography) in Cevins, Savoie, France. It is so-named because the eminent octogenarian ampelographer Professor Pierre Galet has chosen to donate his vast archive of research documents to this newly created centre, based at Cevins. Why? Simply because he could find no-one else willing to preserve them, least of all in Montpellier where Galet has worked and lived for many years, and where one might have thought his research papers would have been most valued. The main objective of the centre is to participate in the protection of the local terroir and environment through preserving the ancient grape varieties of the Alpine areas.

At the meeting, ampelographer Dr José Vouillamoz of the University of Neuchâtel in Switzerland revealed results of recent DNA research which prove a link between the grape varieties of Savoie and those of the northern Rhône Valley. Vouillamoz, an expert on Alpine varieties, was discussing the origins of unusual Savoie varieties and focussed in particular on the best know red variety, Mondeuse Noire. The origins of Mondeuse used to be linked with that of North-east Italy’s Refosco, but this was refuted some years ago. The next breakthrough came when a team at the UC Davis together with INRA in Montpellier, France proved that the parents of Syrah were two rare grape varieties, Savoie’s Mondeuse Blanche and Dureza from the Ardèche region. What was still unproven was a definite link between Mondeuse Blanche and Mondeuse Rouge.

In research which is to be officially published in a paper in 2008, Vouillamoz has now proved that Mondeuse Noire is either an offspring or a parent of Mondeuse Blanche, exactly which being impossible to now determine. This in turn means that Mondeuse Rouge is either half-sibling to Syrah or grand-parent to Syrah. A similar relationship exists between Mondeuse Blanche and the northern Rhône’s Viognier, meaning that Viognier is also related to Syrah. The news confirms this part of eastern France as being one of the world’s most important sources of vine genetic material.

As an important aside to this, I found it a real honour and delight to meet Pierre Galet (aged 86) who also spoke at the meeting and was happy to chat to all the vignerons and others preset at the meeting. He keeps himself up-to-date too, and as a true scientist is not at all worried that modern techniques have made some of his original assertions about grape origins untrue. Before the meeting, I took over his last book, published in 2000, an encyclopaedia of grape varieties in French, to be autographed and introduced myself to him. “Ah”, he said, “I’m half English and in the 1950s I went to England to advise on which grapes to plant for the first modern commercial vineyard”. After further chat, I asked him if he still enjoyed drinking wine. “Yes, at every meal, which means in a year I drink 365 bottles, 366 in leap years”.
Wink Lorch - Wine writer, editor and educator
http://winetravelmedia.com and http://jurawine.co.uk
Also http://www.winetravelguides.com
no avatar
User

Nigel Groundwater

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

153

Joined

Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:08 pm

Location

London, UK

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (Long!)

by Nigel Groundwater » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:50 am

Wink
Thanks for this since I am very interested by research into the origins of grapes.

However you mention Mondeuse Noire, Rouge and Blanche in your post and it seems that the first 2 are the same since if they are not I am missing a link?

Thanks

Nigel
no avatar
User

Wink Lorch

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

157

Joined

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:16 pm

Location

London/France

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (Long!)

by Wink Lorch » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:33 am

you mention Mondeuse Noire, Rouge and Blanche in your post and it seems that the first 2 are the same


Whoops ... well spotted, Nigel - yes exactly, sorry and thanks for pointing it out!

To make it clear ... apart from when it's a rare white wine from Mondeuse Blanche, the wine is of course rouge from the Mondeuse noire grape (it's feminine!) and on labels it is simply referred to as Mondeuse.
Wink Lorch - Wine writer, editor and educator
http://winetravelmedia.com and http://jurawine.co.uk
Also http://www.winetravelguides.com
no avatar
User

Florida Jim

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1253

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:27 pm

Location

St. Pete., FL & Sonoma, CA

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (Long!)

by Florida Jim » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:49 am

Wink Lorch wrote:After further chat, I asked him if he still enjoyed drinking wine. “Yes, at every meal, which means in a year I drink 365 bottles, 366 in leap years”.


Wink,
Aside from the factual information, which is much appreciated, I am pleased to hear that those who study wine often do so because they love wine.
Perhaps, not always the case with scientific endeavor.
Best, Jim
Jim Cowan
Cowan Cellars
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

4013

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (Long!)

by Peter May » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:57 pm

Thanks for the update, Wink.

Fascinating stuff!!
no avatar
User

Anders Källberg

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

805

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:48 am

Location

Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (

by Anders Källberg » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:59 am

Wink Lorch wrote: A similar relationship exists between Mondeuse Blanche and the northern Rhône’s Viognier, meaning that Viognier is also related to Syrah.

Thanks for a very nice and informative post, Wink. I luckily happened to find it thanks to your reference to it in the discussion you had with Alex concerning pigeage in a more recent post. I am trying to collect information about the modern DNA based results concerning grape genetics. Do you by chance have any reference to the result that Mondeuse blanche and Viognier are related?
Cheers, Anders
no avatar
User

Wink Lorch

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

157

Joined

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:16 pm

Location

London/France

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (

by Wink Lorch » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:21 am

Anders
It was already proven some time ago that Mondeuse Blanche was one of the parents of Syrah.
This new research shows that Viognier (like Mondeuse Noire) is either grandparent or grandchild of Syrah ... so I guess one could work out the rest. There is a more technical explanations given by ampelographer José Vouillamoz on Jancis Robinson's site but it is on the Purple Pages members' only section - sorry (PM me if you want and I might be able to send you more detail). He has not yet had the research published in any scientific journal ...
Wink Lorch - Wine writer, editor and educator
http://winetravelmedia.com and http://jurawine.co.uk
Also http://www.winetravelguides.com
no avatar
User

Anders Källberg

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

805

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:48 am

Location

Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (

by Anders Källberg » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:16 am

OK. When you wrote: "A similar relationship exists between Mondeuse Blanche and the northern Rhône’s Viognier" I thought you referred to some older results, but if I understand you correctly, this relation is also in the new results by Vouillamoz et al. I'll PM you for some more details.
Cheers, Anders
no avatar
User

AlexR

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

806

Joined

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:28 am

Location

Bordeaux

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (

by AlexR » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:33 am

Wink,

I'm glad this post, which you mentioned last week, came to the top of the list, otherwise I'd have missed.

Very interesting story and only makes sense, geographically, when you think about it...

One thing I *have* found in Mondeuse is that black pepper quality, which now becomes logical in light of what you say.

Best regards,
Alex R.
no avatar
User

Anders Källberg

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

805

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:48 am

Location

Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Family link confirmed between Syrah, Mondeuse and Viognier (

by Anders Källberg » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:16 am

AlexR wrote:One thing I *have* found in Mondeuse is that black pepper quality.

Interesting, Alex. I need to find a Mondeuse wine to learn more about this variety, but sadly they are most scarce here in Sweden.
/A

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ClaudeBot, FB-extagent, Google AgentMatch and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign