Need help! What does everyone think of Canadian Wines?

Dear Wine Lovers,

As a wine lover myself, I been asked to do a presentation on the pros and cons of Old World vs. New World wine - HOWEVER, being Canadian, I want to incorporate Canadian wines into the discussion, but can't find any honest reviews of them in the forums. I'm based in the UK and it possibly because there's not a huge market for them here, but I'd love some thoughts of how Canadian wine (red in particular, as I'm not an Ice wine fan) stacks up in the New World stakes...

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Sarah

Hi Sarah, and welcome to our little corner of the wine world. Although Canada is a big country, there are two major winemaking areas, and they are quite distinct. The Okanagan Valley is on the West Coast, in British Columbia. I'm not very familiar with wines from there. The other major area is the Niagara Peninsula, about 40 miles South of Toronto, right across Lake Ontario. While Ice Wine is what put the region on the "Map", so to speak, there are over 100 wineries in the region, making a great variety of wines. Their best efforts are with grapes originating in the Northern winegrowing regions of Europe, such as Riesling, Chardonnay, Gamay and Pinot Noir. If it's a good growing season, they also make some excellent Cab Franc. Look for the following wineries: Chateau des Charmes, Flat Rock, Inniskillin, Stratus, Konzelmann, Henry of Pelham. There are many Canadians who post here, so look for their WTNs.

thank you so much. I'm a big fan of Inniskillen's Marschal Foch myself, but I think they stopped making it, right? I'm just trying to get a feel for how people rate Canadian wines against other new worlds, so to speak??

Something potentially provocative, but very much not intentionally so...

Expensive

... especially with pretty much the only wines we see here being the icewines.

As a result I've yet to taste one.

Hopefully that will change in time and with it the perception.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it here

regards

Ian

[Jenise]

Sarah, I'm an American who recently moved within batting distance of the British Columbian border, and I belong to two Canadian tasting groups who usually taste wines blind. Canadian wines frequently show up. I think my perspective is pretty close to that of my Canadian friends, one or three of whom will hopefully wander into this thread and speak for themselves: at this point in time, the white wines are closer to "world class" than the red wines, due surely in large part to the youthful age of the vines. Time and again pinot gris and pinot blanc stand out for showing the most promise among the whites to create a niche market for BC, though I've had well-crafted and distinctive viognier, semillon, sauv blanc, chardonnay and gewurztraminer from a small handful of the area's better producers. Blue Mountain, La Frenz and Golden Mile are a couple of the names that come to mind, though Thornhaven would have to be mentioned for producing an elegant, multi-faceted Alsatian style gewurz that has no equal among American products I've tasted.

The quality of the whites is such that, at our blind tastings, it's much harder to pick out the BC whites from wines made in Europe or other New World countries than it is the BC reds which usually out themselves by having bigger new world fruit without the sweetness of California or the bigger oak and higher alcohol levels of BC's immediate neighbor to the south, Washington state, and for lacking the acidity, minerality and complexity of a South African whose wines are similarly rooted in a regional preference for old world wines. They are usually good or very good, and rarely very very good, categorically speaking (the members of these groups are quite sophisticated and would be bringing the best of the best--though BC definitely has a bottom end for the less discriminating), but rarely excellent. So far, the complexity and finesse of the world class wines they emulate eludes them.

Something potentially provocative, but very much not intentionally so...

Expensive

... especially with pretty much the only wines we see here being the icewines.

As a result I've yet to taste one.

Hopefully that will change in time and with it the perception.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it here

regards

Ian

Ian, dearie me! Next time I visit, you will be #1 on my list with bottles in hand.

Sarah, welcome. Jenise has summed it up pretty well. I am getting more interested in some of the hybrids one can sometimes find around here (in Alberta). Big fan of BC wines, tend to go with the whites namely P Gris as well as a few Sems and Gewurz.

I've never had one. In fact, I have never even seen one on sale, otherwise I would have tried it.

Indeed there is very little US wine available here. They have been just too expensive up to now in the quality range to compete credibly with European wines and also NZ, Aus and Chile, etc. However the sliding dollar may change that.

thank you so much. I'm a big fan of Inniskillen's Marschal Foch myself, but I think they stopped making it, right? I'm just trying to get a feel for how people rate Canadian wines against other new worlds, so to speak??

I could not find Foch on Inniskillin's website. However, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marechal_Foch:

Highly extracted, and more carefully produced wines made from older plantings of Marechal Foch have recently been successfully marketed as more expensive niche cult wines with a dedicated following. Examples include Malivoire Wine Company's (Beamsville Bench, Ontario) and Quails' Gate Estate Winery's (Okanagan, B.C.) "Old Vines Foch" wines.

I like a lot of the Canadian wines and many are readily available in the Buffalo area. Cave Spring Riesling is found on a lot of local restaurant wine lists, and quite reasonably priced I might add.

Hi Sarah,
As already indicated the two major areas are BC (Okanagan) and Ontario (Niagara) - with some satellite regions. These are 2500 miles apart so, for practical purposes, are entirely different (note London-Moscow is 1000 miles!).
Okanagan is semi-desert and hot so doesn't really produce subtle wines! It's geographically a continuation of the Pacific NW terrain (especially Oregon) so most of the products/styles echo the Washington/Oregon grapes/wines with which you are probably more familiar. So pinot gris & chardonny whites; merlot and cab reds.

Niagara is much cooler and is mainly a cool-climate producer. Riesling and (tentatively because still young vines) Pinot Noir are the great white (and red) hopes.

Of course, both regions will plant and sell anything that's considered commercial, so a complete range is available for purchase.

20 years ago Niagara produced mainly hybrids (including marechal foch). However, these have mostly been replaced by vinifera grapes. Some Foch remains and ripens consistently for a pleasant wine - it's just lost out in the 'beauty contest' stakes - no longer fashionable.

The main issue is distribution. Only where there is large (semi-monopolistic) ownership are the wines widely distributed or promoted outside their own area. For example, the most touted recent launch - Niagara's Clos Jordanne (part of the huge Vincor group recently acquired by Constellation Brands, which has UK distribution) was limited to 1 bottle per person of both Pinot Noir and Chardonnay (designated vineyard wines). Yet in the adjacent province of Quebec (which sells more wine than Ontario) case upon case of the same wine sat for months. Bizarrely, Canada's liquor laws prohibit (with mild exceptions) wine being shipped across Province lines (once it is delivered to the original purchaser - always a government agency).
Hype obviously sells!
Quality is indeed improving (and has improved) but on the world stage, Canadian wines are (I know, there are exceptions) probably overpriced for the quality delivered. Within Canada they are protected by tariffs on imported wines, so are (relatively) cheaper.
Having said all that, look for Canadian products that carry the 'VQA' designation (which purportedly guarantees both origin and quality). Other 'Canadian' wines can legally be up to 99% imported bulk wine (usually Chilean).
One enterprising producer recently bought several barrels of Burgundy; mixed it with 1% Ontario Pinot Noir and sold it for 30% less than the original wine would have fetched. All the savings was due to the lower tax rate for 'Canadian' wines!

old world vs new world is your topic. each is a very mixed bag and genralizations should be guarded. north america of course is part of the 'new world' and since CA dominates the $ and volume numbers, they are usually what people mean when the refer to american wines. but as you point out canada makes a fair amount of wine - as do many of the other states in the US. places like Michigan and New York to name just a couple make wines that are similar to those of canada largely becuase the climates are cooler. these wines are all fairly similar to old world wines from northern europe - thought NOT those of Sicily e.g. extreme warm climate wines like those from CA have distinctive flavors of course. but another factor is cultural. CA wines are now riper, softer and more alcoholic than they were even 15 years ago - and americans seem to be ok with that. but americans for some reason have always had a sweeter tooth than their european counterparts. this is even more true with Aussie wines - that nearly always have noticable residual sugar. so, maybe warmer climate and cool climate wines are subsets of both new world AND old world; and cool climate wines generally are more akin to each other than either old or new world wines are.

btw, i like canadian wines - but ontario has had a run of bad luck for a few years now. they have lost - as has new york - a lot of crop and even vines becuase of frost and freeze problems. 2007 looks like it might be their first really good year for both quantity and quality for quite awhile.

As another American living close to border and travels up there regularly, I love many of the wines from the regions well documented above.

It does kind of blow my mind that a country that imports more wine from Australia and South Africa than from America (with New Zealand coming on strong), does not import much if anything from another Commonwealth sister, Canada. Must have something to do with marketing.

I could not find Foch on Inniskillin's website.

That's because the last vintage they made was the 2000 - I followed this wine very attentively for a number of years. The 1997 Inniskillin Foch was my very first hybrid red ever, and it was THE wine that really got my fascination with the grape going.

Here are my notes on a 2003 release of Inniskillin's last Old Vines Foch:

When I read the January 2003 Vintages release and saw that there was going to be a release of the 2000 Inniskillin Old Vines Foch towards the end of the month, I could hardly believe it. This is because based on everything that I had heard over the last two years, Inniskillin had discontinued production of this historically significant wine. And yet, it was the 1997 vintage of this very same wine that got me acquainted with Marechal Foch as a grape variety. Since that fateful day in September of 1998 when I discovered varietal Marechal Foch, Inniskillin's fine, elegant example graced my table often, and I was particularly disappointed when I heard of the decision to discontinue the wine.

The vineyard from which fruit for Inniskillin's Old Vines Foch was sourced was planted in 1979 -- four years after Malivoire's. This traditionally inky-purple wine has taken on a more cherry/ruby-black hue in the 2000 vintage, owing perhaps to lower ripeness and the more difficult growing conditions experienced in 2000 compared to the amazingly ripe 1999 and 1998 vintages. All the same, the wonder of red hybrids really shows through in years like 2000 and the colour is nonetheless deep and dark, if not tooth-stainingly inky.

12.5% alc. Semi-transparent, cherry-red colour with a black-ruby hue. Undeniably, unmistakably Foch: Initial, forward cherry-vanilla aromas are followed by cabbage, iron, game, pencil shavings, violets and sour red raspberries. Elevated acidity gives a tense, tight texture on entry, followed by gamey-cabbage flavours and moderate, velvety tannin on the mid-palate. Pencil-shavings chime in again, opening up to more of a cherry/coconutty finish. Appropriately dry and clean; excellent adaptability at the table. No doubt that the aromas will continue to evolve in the open bottle for a couple of days.

My best-ever food match with Inniskillin's Old Vines Foch was barbecued, marinated ribs. The gamey/peppercorn flavours of the '97 vintage matched well with the meat, and the firm, terse acidity was wonderfully palate-cleansing alongside the oiliness of the ribs. The acidity also makes this wine particularly well-suited to tomato-based foods.

This is serious, well-made Foch. Moreover, it's the kind of wine that one learns to like. It's a significant wine for me, and I'm glad that it has made a reappearance, if only for a brief time.

Welcome back, old veteran.

My wife and I spent almost a week in the Okanagan this past September and visited somewhere in the range of 25 wineries. It's been said above the whites are close to world class, and I'd certainly agree. Unfortunately, a large number of wineries are producing indistinguishable off-dry whites (Riesling and Gewurztraminer, in particular). The Chardonnays are often way too soft - I think it's from too much oak, malolactic fermentation and aging on the lees.

In general, the reds still have a long way to go. We wondered just what Okanagan winemakers are thinking with their excessive use of oak. I'd liken the experience to a mouthful of splinters. We found the entry-level reds were far better than the reserves, because they had less time in oak.

Some wineries we liked:

Le Vieux Pin - just released their first vintage this year. I think they're destined to be a B.C. cult wine. They produce two merlots - one in a St.Emilion style and one reminiscent of a Pomerol. They also produce the only Pinot Noir I actually liked on our trip.

Black Hills - Their Nota Bene (Bordeaux blend) sells out within a couple days of release. Excellent, but next to impossible to find in retail.

Sandhill - They have a Small Lots program that produces some really good varieties that aren't as common in B.C. - the Barbera is solid.

La Frenz - Can't say enough about them. Outstanding Chardonnay, Gewurz, Merlot, etc. Their wine was served to Queen Elizabeth II when she visited Edmonton last year.

Blue Mountain - again, hard to find in retail. Most are sold to those on the mailing list and restaurants. Excellent Chardonnay, Gamay Noir, Pinot Gris.

Kettle Valley, Thornhaven, Blasted Church, Tangled Vines, Dirty Laundry, Desert Hills, Stag's Hollow and Wild Goose were also among the highlights.

Burrowing Owl is mostly not worthy of mention, but they have a great Pinot Gris that's easy to find and well priced.

I don't have nearly the same experience with Ontario wines, but there are some good ones I've tried. Stratus has a great Cab Franc, Vineland has a semi-dry Riesling that's addictive on summer days, and Henry of Pelham's Speck Family Reserve line is excellent.

Just to add a bit more perspective, I'm quoting Jason Zacarias from his Wine Log Blog and recent comments following his Niagara wine tour:

As I tasted I thought to myself that in order to up the quality and profile of wines from Niagara wine makers need to focus on what does well in the region. Niagara needs to be known for doing something well and making Cabernet Sauvignon that hasn’t ripened properly will not cut it. The same goes for varietials from Rhône or Southwest France as far as I’m concerned. I don’t care if Syrah is popular at the moment, or that Jancis Robinson thinks Lenko’s Syrah is the best Canadian wine she’s tasted. If I want great Syrah I’m looking to Southern France and Australia, as will other consumers. Producers need to focus on doing something well, for instance what comes to mind when you think of the Willamette Valley in Oregon? Pinot Noir of course. Mendoza, Argentina? Malbec. Marlborough, New Zealand? Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Noir. Napa Valley? Cabernet Sauvinon.

So what types of grapes do I think have a future in Niagara? Well, in addition to Chardonnay I will be watching out for solid examples of Cabernet Franc, Baco Noir, Riesling and Gewürztraminer. Thanks to Le Clos Jordanne I will also be keeping a close eye on the development of Pinot Noir in Ontario as well, more on that later.

One last point on over pricing. With the exception of tasting tours around Niagara I don’t buy much wine from Niagara. The reason for my abstinence has more to do with pricing than lack of pride in the wines of my home province. The quality to price ratio is often not favourable and if I have to choose between spending big bucks on a lovely Barolo or a decent but over oaked smoky attempt at a Bordeaux styled wine, well I’m going to stick with the Barolo. Sure there are plenty of people willing to waste large sums of money buying these wines from the winery, but wines should not be priced by what a few select buyers are willing to pay. I think a lot of producers have made the mistake of marketing to the well-healed customer with no palate or idea what a ‘mare-lot’ is supposed to taste like. The price should be dependant on the quality. There are some wineries that are getting the point thankfully, and I hope they will not always be the minority.

For the record, I completely agree with him on Cab Sauvignon and the general direction of his overall opinion. I would second Chardonnay as a very successful white vinifera in Ontario, perhaps more so than Gewürztraminer, which in all but the most expensive small-scale production examples has tasted very mediocre to me in the past. But Baco Noir? Hell yeah... I'm also coming around on Pinot Noir and southwestern Ontarian examples of Cab Franc (D'Angelo comes to mind first and foremost). Foch and some of the newer-generation hybrids will continue to show superb climatic adaptability and wine quality, even if the fashion pundits never do catch on.

As a Canadian who has lived in both Ontario and BC, I'd really love to enjoy Canadian wines. But I don't. Canadian wines comprise less than one percent of my cellar, as by and large they are too expensive for what they deliver, and they are still very inconsistent: one year a nice bottle of some varietal may be produced, but the next year mediocrity is produced. There are certainly some better producers than others (they have already been listed), but even the best are too variable for my liking, and they don't ever really hits the heights I look for. There is an occasional treasure, but you have to go through a lot of mediocrity to get there - too much compared to most other wine regions in the world.

For what it's worth, if I was living in London/the UK, Canadian wines would be the furthest thing from my mind! The prices and selection of French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. wine is incredible compared to Canada, and it's easy to zip across the channel to buy direct from producers.

Just give global warming a few more decades. I'm sure Canadian wines will come though.

Not sure that I'd wait for that to happen though, Joe. Where would that leave Ontario ... probably with a climate similar to Virginia's today. Granted, it might become easier to ripen Cab Sauvignon and other inappropriate grapes for our current climate, but if we look at it all jest aside, it makes more sense to plan for the here and now with grape varieties that actually deliver real phenolic ripeness, and that can build a home-grown wine culture in the present time. The Achilles' heel to this, if you will, is the fact that there is such an emphasis on fashion which is based on what makes superb wines elsewhere; we're trying to copycat that in our own very different terroir rather than boldly forging our own independent wine culture.

Hi Sarah,

Being a Canadian (and American) I have done some extensive tasting of Canadian wines. My rule of thumb is that the whites, especially riesling and chardonnay are usually good from Ontario. Reds are best from the warmer Okanagan valley in B. C. However, we have recently been getting some good pinots from Ontario. However, I would tend to agree with the comment that for the price, the quality wines from Canada are just OK to not very good value with the significant exception of ice wines. Some good wineries in Ontario are Chateau des Charmes, Le Clos Jordan (chardonnay and pinot noir only), and as already stated Inniskillin. Since you wanted some tasting notes on Canadian wines, here are some on Ontario wines, including a very good pinot.

Focus of this tasting was Prince Edward County wines – the up and coming new viticultural area of Ontario. Talking to the manager of this wine bar, these wines are moderately priced range of $10 to $20 $CAN per bottle to keep the prices reasonable

Whites

Rosenhall Run Gewurztraminer 2006 11.5% abv Niagara ON

Pale yellow wine with an expressive nose of lychees, rose petals, and violets. Light lychee fruit on the palate with good acidity for a gewurz. Medium finish. Light bodied.

Huff Estates 2006 riesling reserve 12.5% abv Prince Edward County (PEC) ON

Light straw color. Light nose of grapefruit. Bracing acidity, grapefruit and some minerals on the midpalate. Medium to long acidic finish. Acid seems a bit out of balance.

Waupoos Winery Geisenheim 2006 PEC ON

Light yellow. Unique and expressive nose of earthiness, minerality, musk, and exotic fruit. Nicely balanced wine with great acidity and flavors reminiscent of riesling (lemon/citrus) and pinot gris. Luscious medium-long finish of acidic fruit.

I was fortunate enough to converse with the owner of this winery (Ed Neuser). He told me that if tasted blind most people think this variety is pinot gris. He also informed me that geisenheim was named after a university in Germany. This was my first time tasting this variety and I was intrigued by its unique nose and taste profile. I may have to buy some of this wine from the winery. Ed also told me that his site on a south facing slope with clay loam soils on a limestone base located on the shore of Lake Ontario seems to be the right terroir for De Chaunac, a red French variety also new to me that I really liked (tasting note in red section). Both these varieties impressed my buds and seemed to have unique and likeable fragrance and taste profiles. Ed also told me, his Waupoos winery was the first modern winery established in Prince Edward County.

Waupoos Winery riesling 2006 PEC ON 12.3% abv

Very pale yellow. Shy nose of lemon. Nice acidity with decent balance. Medium length acidic finish. Light bodied. Too light for my tastes.

Southbrook Winery sauvignon blanc 2006 Niagara ON

Pale yellow with a good nose of gooseberries and grass. Nice acidity and kiwi fruit on the midpalate. Medium to long acidic finish. Decent but not exceptional SB.

Rosenhall Run Winery Sullyzwicker White blend 2006 Niagara ON (Ehrenfelser, riesling, gewurztraminer)

Very pale yellow Interesting nose of floral, white peach and a hint of muskiness. Well balance wine with peach, apricot, and tangerine on the midpalate. A medium length finish. Efrenfleser is another new variety for my tastebuds.

Grange of PEC Assemblage (white blend chardonnay, pinot gris, riesling, and sauvignon blanc) 2006 12% abv

Light straw color. Expressive nose of lychees, white peach and some earthiness. Really nice midpalate of great balance with peach and lychees. Nice medium to long fruity finish with lingering acidity. I really liked this wine and almost bought a bottle. This is a good food wine that I had with spicy middle eastern chicken (shwarma style) on rice. The food enhanced the sweet fruit the wine. A nice match. I liked this wine enough to buy a bottle.

Red Wines

Norman Hardee winery pinot noir 2005 PEC, Ontario 12% abv

Light ruby wine with a smoky earth nose. Nice light pinot with good balance, with acidity and red fruit (cherries and strawberries) equally expressive. Finish medium.

Waupoos winery De Chaunac 2005 PEC, Ontario

Deep crimson wine with an enticing and unique nose of smoke, minerals (limestone esp), and a musky floral scent. A medium bodied wine with a luscious midpalate feel that gives impressions of plums, tart cherries, and great balance. A medium to long finish.

With food: I thought this wine would go with lamb. I tried it with a lamb meat pie (lamb, mixed veggies and gravy). Food enhances the earthiness of this wine and brings out the sweet red fruit, especially tart cherries. – Great food wine. Great match with lamb. As the owner of the winery, Ed, says: This variety loves the terroir of Prince Edward County. I may have to order some of this wine from the winery.

East Dell Winery Pinot Noir 2006 Niagara, Ontario

Light red wine with a reticent nose of smoky red fruit (especially tart cherries). Oak and tannins on palate with some red fruit in the background. Medium finish of tannins. Not much fruit in this wine, needs time as it is a bit rough. Not sure if fruit profile will improve, however.

Lakeview Cellars winery baco noir 2004 Niagara, Ontario

Light brownish red (mahogany) wine with somewhat shy sweet floral nose with some sweet muskiness. Musky taste with good tannins and some red fruit. A medium finish.

Southbrook Winery Cabernet Sauvignon Triomphe 2001 Niagara, Ontario

Deep ruby wine with oaky taste and some cassis. Oak is not integrated. An OAK MONSTER! Medium finish of, what else, oak.

East Dell Winery Cabernet – Merlot 2003 Niagara, Ontario

Medium ruby color with a shy nose of oak and red fruit. Fruity midpalate with nice acidity and some tannins. Finish is just OK, somewhat short.

Rosenhall Run Winery Sullyzwicker red blend 2006 Niagara, Ontario (Gamay, cab franc, and pinot noir)

Medium red color with shy nose of red fruit and some earthiness. Midpalate of earthiness and nice acidity but a little short on the tannins. Definitely light bodied. Finish short.

20 Bees Winery Cabernet – Merlot 2006 Niagara, Ontario

Deep ruby color with earth, bacon, oak, and some red fruit in the nose. Good tannic structure with nice red fruit on the midpalate. Medium bodied wine with a decent medium to long tannic/fruit finish. My tasting partner liked this wine a lot.

Huff Estates Winery Cabernet Sauvignon 2005 PEC, Ontario

Deep red color with cassis and oak on the nose. Decent balance on the midpalate with nice tannic grip and dark fruit in the background. Medium finish of tannins and acid. This wine is a bit shy of fruit.

Dan Aykroyd Winery Cabernet – Merlot 2006 Niagara, Ontario

Medium ruby wine with a shy nose of some red fruit, mostly red raspberry. Nice balance with good tannic structure and red fruit. A bit short on the finish. Just an OK wine.

Black Prince Winery Cab Franc 2006 Niagara, Ontario

In a different tasting:

Clear ruby red. Earthy cherries with some spicy leather. Classic pinot nose. Earthiness and nice spicyness on the midpalate. Long finish of earthy herbs. James said at first this was a new world wine done in an oldworld style but later changed his vote to old world.

2004 Le Clos Jordanne Village Reserve Pinot Noir - One of Ontario's newest wineries. Noland brothers say this is the best ON pinot I have ever served them and I tend to agree. Better sipper than food wine, however. $25 CAN

Ed also told me that his site on a south facing slope with clay loam soils on a limestone base located on the shore of Lake Ontario seems to be the right terroir for De Chaunac, a red French variety also new to me that I really liked (tasting note in red section). [...] As the owner of the winery, Ed, says: This variety loves the terroir of Prince Edward County.

A wonderful testimony, Tom, to what I dare say is the correct approach to a grape like Dechaunac that is naturally adaptable to our climate by means of evolution. Moreover, I am extremely happy that the winery owner is viewing it as a fit for his terroir - he's found the grape for his site.

Too often, for much too long, grapes like Dechaunac and its other hybrid brethren have been viewed through myopic lenses of maximum yield and indifferent winemaking. Without careful attention, it's no wonder that so many of their wines have been unremarkable over the decades. It seems like events in PEC are signs of a turnaround.

I've lived here (Toronto) for a year now have had very good experiences with Niagara wines. Rieslings (Cave spring, Vineland st urban, henry of pelham semi dry) and Chards (Coyote's run unoaked, Fielding unoaked, Cave Spring oaked, etc) that beat anything the west coast (including the US) has to offer, by virtue of their structure and minerality, and are very respectable indeed. Also, good Gamays and Pinot Noirs (Cave Spring, Malivoire) for not outrageous prices, lighter but more earthy and mineral than Cali/Oregon examples. As well as the new discovery - Baco Noir (hernder and Henry of Pelham reserves) , which can be a great grape in my newly formed opinion, and very cellarable to boot. And some charming aromatically interesting Cab Francs (coyote's run, fielding). Foch is hard to come by these days (why?)

The thing is that there is big vintage variation in Niagara. look for 2002, 2005 (and in the future, 2007), avoid the rest to varying degrees. reds from 2006 are all watery and light even by local standards. 2004 can be decent too.

Less impressed with BC wines despite genuine efforts to like them when I lived there. The whites are too sweet, the reds are a bit muddled and usually too oaked for their own good. Tried to find a decent merlot on a recent trip and mostly failed, the closest was Nk'mip.

Would I seek them out if I didn't live here? No (Canada is not France or Italy), but that is irrelevant. At least I wouldn't avoid them as I do the wines of some other well known countries.

As well as the new discovery - Baco Noir (hernder and Henry of Pelham reserves) , which can be a great grape in my newly formed opinion, and very cellarable to boot. [...] Foch is hard to come by these days (why?)

David, I agree on Baco and Foch, as well as several other hybrids. These grapes are climatically suitable to our viticultural area because they get a large proportion of their genetic material from native North American wild grapes that clearly evolved to have good humidity, disease and cold resistance. The reason that Foch is getting so hard to find in Ontario nowadays - it actually was still rather common in the late 90's - is fashion coupled with the low price per ton that growers get for the grape. It is clearly possible to make outstanding varietal Foch in Ontario (think D'Angelo in southwest Ontario and Lakeview Cellars' former bottlings) that never has the nasty green-pepper unripeness of some vinifera reds, but the economic return on the wine is such that wineries prefer to sell Cab Sauvignon or Merlot which carry name cachet (earned in wholly different climates, I might add). But if you talk to growers and hobbyists who aren't dependent on fashion or on the sale of their wines, you will find lots of enthusiasm for grapes like Foch, Chambourcin, Dechaunac and many of the new-generation releases slowly making their way onto the scene.

David, you are spot on. Vineland and Cave Spring produce some very nice Rieslings.
Paul B will tell you I am always flying the BN flag!

Welcome, Sarah. I hope you are getting what you need.
I will no doubt incur the wrath of my northern neighbors, but every year we go through Ontario, spend a couple of days at Niagara on the Lake, visit a few wineries, and then on to my Sister's place in NY. I keep looking for a red wine made in the area that I would say is better than mediocre. I stick with vinfera - and so I cannot comment on hybrids - and I have not liked a single red wine enough to buy a bottle. Some are just disgusting, others just uninteresting, most I feel are imbalanced, etc. I guess I had one cabernet franc that was pretty good - not good enough for me to buy a bottle to take home, but at least it had no obvious flaws and had some interest. But the short answer is I don't think you will find a canadian red from Ontario that will be a good example of what most people think of as a new world wine.
I feel the same way about the northern Michigan red wines I have tasted. I just don't think it is their thing.
Whites, and particularly riesling, are a different story. Not up to the quality level of the finger lakes or old mission peninsula in Michigan yet, but getting there.

I will no doubt incur the wrath of my northern neighbors, but every year we go through Ontario, spend a couple of days at Niagara on the Lake, visit a few wineries, and then on to my Sister's place in NY. I keep looking for a red wine made in the area that I would say is better than mediocre.
Whites, and particularly riesling, are a different story. Not up to the quality level of the finger lakes or old mission peninsula in Michigan yet, but getting there.

O.W. How dare you tell the truth about Ontario wines!
Except I think we can match the two US regions you mention. And I have bought a few Ontario wines.
But quality vs price is indeed an issue.
Next time try Gewurz also. I think that is consistently good value - and palatable.