Pinot Country

Where do people think the best pinots are coming from in the US these days, Washington, Oregon, Northern Cali, or Southern Cali?

[Jenise]

Dan, other than being able to exclude Washington, which grows very little pinot noir, the remaining choices are probably a beauty-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder thing. Personally I think it would be hard to argue against the sweet spice of the Russian River and other of the Sonoma region's appellations. However, I've recently made several trips to Oregon wine country and where I used to overall find their wines a bit plain by comparison, they're now striking me as more savory than plain and I'm liking them more than ever. In fact, the best domestic pinot I've ever had was an Oregonian--a 92 Domaine Serene 'Evanstadt' about two years ago.

Welcome to WLDG, by the way; I like your wines.

I'm a big fan of Russian River Valley Pinot and Sonoma in general. I'm developing a taste, though, for Oregon Pinot. I do like, too, many of the wines, but not all, coming from the Santa Rita Hills area.

Not any Southern Cali Pinots that I know of.. so we can eliminate that area!!!

I'd be interested to learn of producers that fans of Russian River Valley pinot noir think worth seeking out. Frankly, the few times I have visited the Russian River Valley, I always see the promotional/educational materials mention that RRV is renowned for its pinot noir, but I didn't run into it that often at wineries and that which I did was either not memorable or not my style (deep, dark, thick, leaning toward blockbuster). In fact, I had wondered if the pinot mention was just due to outdated materials as zinfandel seemed much higher on the agenda at most wineries.

I hear Joseph Swan mentioned many times 'round these parts, but have not had the opportunity to visit. Any other pinot producers that you folks think typify good Russian River Valley pinot noir?

Swan is a good start...others: Dehlinger, Kutch is excellent, Williams-Selyem all make Pinots in a less overblown style...Not sure all are located in RRV.. then there are producers who make some RRV Pinots that I have liked, for example A.P. Vin, who are not in RRV for sure. Arista Pinots are very nice, but they are a bit bigger, though well balanced. I have also enjoyed Moshin. Both of those ARE in RRV, very close to the Swan winery.

This subject -- exactly this question -- is covered fairly comprehensively in the main modern book on the subject, John W. Haeger's North American Pinot Noir (2004, ISBN 0520241142). I think that book is essential background for in-depth discussion of this topic. Haeger identifies regions making notable Pinot Noir (including in British Columbia and New York state). The places named in the first posting here are within the "Pacific Pinot Zone," containing about 90 percent of the subcontinent's Pinot plantings.

Thank you, Jim--very helpful list.

Don't rule out the East. Warm Lake Estate in Niagara County, NY and across the river to the Canadian side are some nice Pinots also, such as Stratus, Flat Rock and Chateau des Charmes. Last month I even picked up a nice one from Inniskillin for about $12. And there are some nice ones from the Finger Lakes also. There's just not a lot of it now, but plantings are increasing.

[Jenise]

I'm a big fan of Russian River Valley Pinot and Sonoma in general. I'm developing a taste, though, for Oregon Pinot. I do like, too, many of the wines, but not all, coming from the Santa Rita Hills area.

Not any Southern Cali Pinots that I know of.. so we can eliminate that area!!!

Since Dan's in Napa (at least, his winery is), I'm betting that "Southern California" refers to what a Los Angeleno would think of as Central California.

I'm sure you are right, JS... If you live in SF or north, anything below SF is So Cal...

Joseph Swan of course. Porter Creek and Suncé are a couple of others that I like. Davis Bynum tends to make wines on the tannic, monolithic side, but occasionally they'll hit a home run.

>> If you live in SF or north, anything below SF is So Cal...

Hey, waitaminnit! I live in Santa Clara! Anything south of Fresno, please!!

John, I'm pretty sure folks who live in Santa Barbara don't believe they are in So Cal.. so. let's sayjust say any city that has S_ as its initials can and will say that it is not in So Cal...excluding, of course, SD..

John, I'm pretty sure folks who live in Santa Barbara don't believe they are in So Cal.. so. let's sayjust say any city that has S_ as its initials can and will say that it is not in So Cal...excluding, of course, SD..

...and San Bernadino and San Fernando and San Clemente and Santa Monica and Santa Ana...

Father Junipero Serra was a busy guy. As to the lines of demarcation in CA: to anyone who grew up N of the Bay Area, SF was considered Central CA, while to Bay Area residents Santa Barbara was beyond question in SoCal.

Mark Lipton

Point taken.. big time!!!

Dan, I think the best value Pinots come from Oregon at present. It seems that they are about the only solid Pinots that can be had for around $20. My tasting experience is not terribly broad, but it seems to me that as the price of Central Coast Pinots has shot up in the last few years the quality has became very uneven. On a couple of occasions I've paid $40 plus for glorified fruit juice from the CC. As a result I have shied away over the past six months. While I love the Rieslings from the Finger Lakes region I have not been impressed with the Pinots from that area. I was just there on a business trip and tasted a number of Pinots. They don't seem to exhibit the essential Pinot character to me.

Yes you guys are pretty much right, I am in Napa so most everything below I would say San Jose is what I consider So Cal. When speaking of central Cal I only really think of the central valley, thus that is a more East/West consideration, where the North/South in my Nor Cal mind splits at San Jose.

John, I'm pretty sure folks who live in Santa Barbara don't believe they are in So Cal...

Seriously? When I spent time there (admittedly a few decades ago), I picked up no such notion. Anyway, geography disagrees with it. (California is roughly 10 latitude degrees "tall" from Mexico to Oregon borders; Santa Barbara is less than 2 degrees from Mexico, putting it in the southern fifth or sixth of the state.)

This is another of those subjects where subjective perceptions vary revealingly. Some reference books reasonably class San Francisco (about 40% of the way from north to south) as "central" California although conventionally, people there call it northern (in the northern half, I suppose). (San José at about 37deg 20' is approximately the state's mid-point, north to south, a needed reminder that there's a lot of California north of San Francisco. Thus Gilroy could technically be called southern California.)

Best trivia on this I've seen is that in good-humored explorations 20 years ago of hypothetical division of California into multiple states, people in the north and in the south each wanted to cede Fresno to the other side. Makes me want to visit the place!

By the way, my best-value Pinots the last 25 years (in the $20 or less category) have mostly come from Burgundy which still produces a great many of them. However this is skewed from current perceptions because (1) relatively very few pinots of note were made in the US 25 years ago and (2) in 25 years, you learn how to find good values in Burgundy (pop notions notwithstanding).

[Jenise]

Best trivia on this I've seen is that in good-humored explorations 20 years ago of hypothetical division of California into multiple states, people in the north and in the south each wanted to cede Fresno to the other side.

That's because they both watched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nTQRtppImo

[David M. Bueker]

Just my two cents - other than a very few California Pinots (e.g. the Kistler I just had last night) my favorites come from Oregon. I like the more restrained (usually) style. Too many California (at least "Southern California") Pinots taste like candied fruit to me.

I've tried some of the Russian River Pinots with mixed results. I liked the Kutch bottling very much, but a Swan Saralee's Vineyard Pinot the other night was horribly candied with no substance.

So now I mostly stick to Oregon. I would love to be convinced of Northern California Pinot, but it hasn't really happened much so far.

David, I agree with you that there are some beautiful, subtle Pinots from Oregon; I've also had them from the RRV. But if you like that style and have not experienced it much in California, come visit the Anderson Valley some time. It's (or at least was traditionally) one of the less-advertised pockets of Haeger's so-called "Pacific Pinot Zone." I could suggest some producers, they tend to divide between "old world" and "new world" styles and it sounds as if you might especially appreciate some of the former.

Where do people think the best pinots are coming from in the US these days, Washington, Oregon, Northern Cali, or Southern Cali?

Yes, to all except maybe SoCal which has yet to convince me. Each area produces its own particular style none of which I find repulsive or bad. It's what I'm in the mood for which drives my choice, although I do enjoy a Los Carneros PN done right.

come visit the Anderson Valley some time. It's (or at least was traditionally) one of the less-advertised pockets of Haeger's so-called "Pacific Pinot Zone."

Indeed. The few pinot noirs I have had from Anderson Valley have been memorably delicious--and it is an absolutely stunning place to visit.

And . . . we can all agree it is located in northern California, yes?