Ice Wine Opinions -- anyone?

I'd like to hear some opinions on ice wines.

And, of course I'm speaking of wine from grapes that have been left to freeze on the vine...not just wine that has been in an overly cold refrigerator.

Any preferences as to the regions? Germany -- Austria -- Canada?

What should a person look for as a quality ice wine?

Thanks (as always) for the generous input.

Being a proud Canadian, have to wave the flag.

http://www.winesofcanada.com/icewine.html

My tasting experience with these wines is pretty limited but have always felt stick to Riesling, although Vidal has its fans. Paul B will be here I am sure to add some valuable comments. Have seen some ice wines from Austria, very expensive naturally, but I too want to learn more. Should be a good thread eh.

[David M. Bueker]

While I appreciate the icewines of Canada (especially if they are Riesling - not a big fan of the Vidal versions), I prefer the Eisweins of Germany. The purity of flavor in an eiswein is perhaps my holy grail in wine.

The problem is that global warming has reduced the frequency of eiswein vintages in Germany, so the wines are very hard to get and much more expensive. If you see an eiswein from Selbach-Oster I would jump on it. They make some of the most expressive and pure eisweins in my opinion.

One of my handful of great wine experiences was an eiswein pulled from under the table at a tasting by Hermann Dönnhoff. It was a 1998 and Riesling, of course, but I don't remember from which vineyard. Perfect in every way with wonderful acidity offsetting the sweetness and so long.

Other eiswein experiences have been far from that level, e.g. a Nigl GV 200g reported on a few days ago in another thread.

[David M. Bueker]

All Donnhoff Eisweins that I am aware of are from the Oberhauser Brucke vineyard. I doubt there are any others, as Helmut Donnhoff (the current winemaker) has indicated that his other sites are too warm for eiswein. The Brucke is down by the Nahe river & collects cool air. '98 was one of the greatest eiswein vintages ever in Germany.

Here's a note on one of my favorites, written in 2003:

1998 Paradise Ranch Late Harvest Vidal Okanagan Valley British Columbia Canada. VQA. Light gold color; excellent pear and butterscotch aromas, very intense, and with hints of floral notes, honey suckle I thought; lovely kiwi and gooseberry flavors; a bit drier than the Riesling, but still very pleasant with a long finish and lots of pear, floral and butterscotch aromas. T5*.

[This winery was one of my favorite personal discoveries at the AWS Conference. Paradise Ranch Wines Corp., 901 – 525 Seymour Street, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada V6B 3H7. Tel: (604) 836-2968; Email: jstewart@icewines.com The VQA is a voluntary stamp of approval issued by the B. C. Wine Institute, certifying that the wines are 100% British Columbia and meet the quality standards in the opinion of a board of experts.

The Okanagan Valley, a desert area near the North eastern border of Washington, is absolutely beautiful; here is a report on the 1998 harvest by the wine maker: “The temperatures were forecast to plummet that night [of January 2, 1998] down to below -10 Celsius. This was our first night to try and pick our grapes for ice wine. My son Huey and I went up to the Northern vineyard blocks to set up the lights and generators. It had been a long wait, nearly two months. It was a very costly two months. Costly because the losses were mounting from the bear, deer, and elk feasting on the hanging grapes in spite of our efforts to scare them away. … the moon was out in full, the temperature had fallen to -12 Celsius, and there was a eerie whirl of activity from the tractors, generators, and the more than 100 pickers who tried their best to get the grapes off when we had the chance. This arctic front that moved through our valley that night was not expected to stay.”]

And from another tasting a couple of months later:

1998 Inniskillin Gold Oak Aged Vidal Ice Wine Ontario Canada. $78.00. Represented by Inniskillin. Delicious. T4*.

1999 Inniskillin Silver Riesling Ice Wine Ontario Canada. $68.00. Represented by Inniskillin. Also delicious with a bit more bite. T4*.

1999 Inniskillin Sparkling Ice Wine Ontario Canada. $68.00. Represented by Inniskillin. Unique? Made with Vidal, I believe. Interesting and delicious. T4*.

And amazingly there are often some excellent New Jersey ice wines; here's one that delivers year after year if the weather co-operates:

Tomasello Atlantic County Vidal Blanc Ice Wine 2005. 375ml; $13.99. A&P, Midland Park. Harvest Sugar 37.2 degrees Brix; Residual Sugar 17.2 degrees Brix; 11.9% alcohol. http://www.tomasellowinery.com/tasting.html

Beautiful golden color, clear hue, gorgeous aroma of classic Vidal Blanc, rich honey taste with berry notes and a tiny bit of oxidation -- a feature or a flaw? -- either way it added interest, full mouth feel, long interesting finish with several layers of flavor. One of the very best New Jersey wines I've ever tried. (The berry notes were a subtle advertisement for Tomasello's berry wines, which are almost always pleasing.) 4*+.

lAdded two nights later after leaving it in the bottle in the fridge; This wine actually improved -- richer, sweeter, more complex, not only the initial tastes, especially the long, complex, layered finish. Just great. 5*. ]

Winemaker Notes: Tomasello Atlantic County Vidal Blanc Ice Wine 2005 375ml. Partially frozen Vidal Blanc grapes were harvested from our vineyard on December 4, 2003, pressed and used in the fermentation of this Vidal Blanc Ice Wine. The harvest sugar was 36% by weight with the post-fermentation residual sugar at 16%. Wonderful honey and berry character, more subtle than our Riesling Ice Wine. Best served chilled as a dessert wine. http://www.tomasellowinery.com/tasting.html [I'm not why the discrepancy between the vintage and picking date, but assume the picking date is a typo.]

Garden State Wine Growers Association http://www.newjerseywines.com/news.html Tomasello Winery's Vidal Blanc Ice Wine was a triple winner, receiving the Governor's Cup as well the "Best Dessert" Wine and "Best Hybrid" wine awards. Tomasello Winery used partially frozen Vidal Blanc grapes harvested from its vineyard in December 2005 to make the award-winning wine. This wine exhibits a wonderful honey and berry character, and is best served chilled as a dessert wine.

Tomasello Winery, a family-owned operation, was founded in 1933 by Frank Tomasello. Today, third generation winemakers Charles and Jack Tomasello manage an expansive Atlantic County vineyard offering more than 30 different wines and eight types of champagne grown, produced and bottled in the Garden State. With more than seventy acres of Vinifera, French Hybrid and Native American vines, Tomasello Winery is the largest-producing winery in New Jersey.

Our favorites though are from Donnhoff -- when we can get them.

Regards, Bob

Found a reference to icewine from Virginia but problems linking up!

http://visitroanokeva.com/displayinfo.a ... 8&NID=1091

opinions? well, ok.
1. ice wines are quite often full of VA - and even other unpleasant things due to the vagueries of hanging for a long time often damaged.
2. canadian ice wines in particular are usually too sweet. german ice wines rarely exceed 15% RS and are often less; and are much more wine-like.
3. these lower RS icewines are excellant matches for foie gras.
4. they do not generally take to aging all that well.
5. underripe red grapes from cool climates don't make very good ice wine either; but at least they are sweet and someone will buy them.
well, you asked for it.

I've had a few from Ontario and NY State. While Vidal is the most popular grape for this, and can be very good, but I prefer Riesling. Another I liked a lot was a Delaware Ice Wine from Johnson Estate in Chataqua County, NY. During the winery tours part of NiagaraCOOL '05, the Niagara-On-The-Lake wineries served some superb blue cheeses from Quebec that paired up beautifully with the ice wines.

I have enjoyed Inniskillen Ice Wines--especially the Riesling, but bought a half bottle of the Cabernet Franc (red wine) when the Riesling sold out very quickly at the Pinehurst Wine Festival. I also liked the two styles of Vidal Ice Wine, preferring the one with no oak treatment but not enough to pay the purchase price.

I'm with David Bueker though in favoring German ice wines above all others--just wish I could afford them. There is that purity of flavor in some of them (which David mentioned) and that balance of sugar and acid that is just remarkable! I doubt that I would pair them with foie gras or any food--they are a dessert on their own!

Ice wines never really excited me, but I did have some wonderfully flavorful, unctious, magnigicently concentrated drops back in the 70's and 80's in Germany. Alas, they were the exceptions to the rule. Ice wine used to be something special and wasn't always offered every year from every grower. Now, it seems, they are being very strongly marketed and there is a push to get a lot of ice wine onto the table. The lust for quantity seems to be clobbering the virtue of quality. I guess one needs to have a dependable source.

[David M. Bueker]

Ice wines never really excited me, but I did have some wonderfully flavorful, unctious, magnigicently concentrated drops back in the 70's and 80's in Germany. Alas, they were the exceptions to the rule. Ice wine used to be something special and wasn't always offered every year from every grower. Now, it seems, they are being very strongly marketed and there is a push to get a lot of ice wine onto the table. The lust for quantity seems to be clobbering the virtue of quality. I guess one needs to have a dependable source.

I find your statement to be quite a ways off base. The good producers of Germany have made very little eiswein in recent years due to the warmer weather. Sure there's schlock, but there's schlock in every wine region. Look at the solid producers and you won't see any such trend towards marketing of eiswein or a push to get it on the table.

In the '70s and early '80s eiswein was not even officially codified in German wine law, so they could make eiswein with LOWER concentration. These days eiswein must be of at least BA ripeness (where formerly it only meant that the grapes had frozen, hence labels that read auslese eiswein)

Look towards producers like Selbach-Oster, Leitz, Strub etc. and it's hard to be disappointed. Of course it's hard to find a bottle.

You might want to have some facts when you claim an industry has given up on quality.

You might want to have some facts when you claim an industry has given up on quality.

David, I lived in the Rhineland and in Baden-Württemberg for nearly twenty years. Some of my best friends with whom I remain in contact are German winemakers and to this day I provide some with assistance in translating their websites and other documents into English. It's not like I'm out of touch. I base my statements on my own experience and their input. So, please don't suggest that I'm speaking without a factual basis. I take umbrage at your remark and how it was delivered.

If you had taken the time to read my comments carefully you would see that they were not directed at the German wine industry. Ice wine is popping up all over the place from all sorts of sources, some done in the traditional fashion and some using other means. And there is a lot more of it on the American market now than 25 years ago, so what I suggested was that one needs a dependable source which, by the way, is the same thing you suggest. You just got there via an unnecessary insult.

[David M. Bueker]

Gary,

You initially mention Germany - you never go on to any other region in your comments. Write carefully & I will read carefully. I cannot infer what you do not write. Sloppy - terribly sloppy.

Gary,

You initially mention Germany - you never go on to any other region in your comments. Write carefully & I will read carefully. I cannot infer what you do not write. Sloppy - terribly sloppy.

Na ja, du hast Recht und ich habe meine Ruhe.

[David M. Bueker]

Cute. Not impressed.

I've had delectable ice wines from all of the areas you mentioned. Botrytis has its place (boy does it ever!) in the production of sweet wines, but there can be magnificent products just from natural cryogenic concentration of the very ripe grape juice. Riesling Eiswein vs. Beerenauslese is like a capella music vs. a chorus with orchestral accompaniment. They are different, but both delightful.

-Paul W.

Beautiful golden color, clear hue, gorgeous aroma of classic Vidal Blanc

Bob, that is a great descriptor - "classic Vidal Blanc".

Here in Ontario, the Vidal icewines to my taste typically show opulent apricot-nectar aromas with secondary hints of ripe pineapple and passionfruit. Unctuous and very honey-like on the nose, Vidal icewines are my favourite stickies - and I'm not a sweet wine drinker at all.

Thanks for the great notes.

Paul:

I would add that Niagara on the Lake is an excellent place to visit. The wife and I enjoyed staying at the Pillar and Post while we visited the area wineries a few summers back.

It's amazing that such beauty is so close to Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY.

Ray

Western New York is loaded with such beauty, Buffalo is a great place to live.

I must have missed the good parts. Did not mean to offend anyone.

come up for NiagaraCool, you will leave impressed

I actually once attended Canal Fest, I think in Tonowanda? Don't remember any wine, but lots of beer.