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Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

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Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Bob Ross » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:17 am

Not a very flattering image, but this video captures her personality and the importance and value of the Atlas:

http://www.meettheauthor.co.uk/bookbites/1505.html

Regards, Bob
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Carl Eppig » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:05 pm

Well, at my age she still looks good to me!
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atl

by Bob Henrick » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:17 pm

Bob, I really like your characterizing her as a peddler. It is amazing to me that these wine guru's have so much going for them, yet they revise a few pages of their 2 year old book and charge another new release price. It would make a lot more sense to me as a consumer that she or any other writer "UPDATE" their latest book annually and sell it to those who have already purchased the whole thing. I have maybe a dozen wine books, including "Timelines", but there is no way I would ever go the full price on any of them anymore.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atl

by Bob Ross » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:27 pm

Bob, I haven't reviewed the new Atlas yet, but I've ordered it -- Amazon and Barnes and Noble are already discounting it all the way down to $31.00. I'll let you know my views on whether the Fifth isn't good enough in due course.

I got the peddling line from Her Majesty, herself: "I try my hand at selling - a video clip."

And, she has a very nice self deprecating attitude to her majesty in the wine world. Commenting on the Amazon discount she writes:

Totally ridiculous. Four hundred pages of beautifully illustrated maps and meaty information on the glorious world of wine - plus super snazzy jacket...

I do think some of the writers do put out needless editions of their works, but Jancis' Oxford Companion to Wine, 3rd edition, is a triumph, and already out of date in some really important ways.

And while I'm in a defending mood, I really enjoy Hugh Johnson's and Tom Stevenson's annual updates of their baby encyclopedias.

Regards, Bob
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atl

by Bob Henrick » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:10 pm

I know I can't fool you Bob, You already know what a curmudgeon I am. :lol:
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atl

by Bob Ross » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:21 pm

That's funny Bob ... thanks for the chuckle! :)
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atl

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:28 pm

Thanks for that video clip Bob R. HRH rocks in my book!
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Paul Winalski » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:43 am

I have the 1978 edition of the World Atlas of Wine, which is edited by Hugh Johnson and says it is a revision of the 1971 version. So I guess that was the 2nd edition?

When did Jancis Robinson take over from Hugh Johnson as the editor?

Her "Vines, Grapes, and Wines" is still one of my favorite wine books, and I've been in general agreement with the wine criticism that I've seen written by her.

Given that my edition is approaching 30 years old, I ought to take a serious look at buying this new one. Thanks for pointing it out.

-Paul W.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Bob Ross » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:53 am

Johnson and Robinson are co-authors; she worked with Johnson on the fifth edition which was released soon after 9/11. At an dinner at Montrachet in October 2001, Robinson said that she and her assistants had done much of the work on the fifth edition, but that Johnson's judgment was essential.

I see that Johnson is still listed first of the co-authors, but it seems from things they both have said that Robinson carried the labouring oar in the sixth as well.

Of course, Johnson is a very collaborative author -- much of the OCW3rd was written by others -- all carefully credited in each article.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David M. Bueker » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:02 am

Bob - what do you consider so important and out of date in the 3rd edition of the Oxford Companion? Heck - the 1st edition is still a valuable resource in many, many ways.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David Cobbold » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:33 am

I think that David Buecker's response is very appropriate. It would be good to see a little more historical perspective on such issues. Authors may well be criticised for publishing too much (when you know how little they are paid, at least in the field of wine, you may begin to comprehend), but one should not slate the honest and conscientious authors, such as Robinson and Johnson, lightly. Their work deserves all our support.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Bob Ross » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:47 am

Hey, David [Buecker], am I not clear in this sentence?

"I do think some of the writers do put out needless editions of their works, but Jancis' Oxford Companion to Wine, 3rd edition, is a triumph, and already out of date in some really important ways."

I bought the third edition and also subscribe to Purple to get it and use both -- "triumph" says it all to me.

Jancis is very approachable -- here's a short exchange between the two of us recently that will make the point:

Mission Control: See Pinot and Syrah - members of the same family published here in June 2006, alas too late to get into the most recent Oxford Companion.

This was actually to a large extent the work of Dr Jose Vouillamoz who has been so useful in his recent comments on the 'Greek Cabernet Sauvignon' story.


[The link to the article
http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/inside060529

Note that she published her note in May 2006 and the OCW3 was released this summer, over a year later -- an unavoidable delay given the way Oxford vets its hard copy books.]

Ross: Jancis, "Pinot and Syrah - members of the same family" is a wonderful article.

If it is technically possible, would it be feasible to add major items like this to the OCW3 online?

Either as an addendum in the way the OED does it, or perhaps as a set of links that once searching OCW3 could check for further articles on issues that you consider significant and worthy of inclusion if they had arisen before publication date.

That would increase the usefulness of the already wonderful resource.

Regards, Bob


Mission Control: We are already starting to do this online, Bob, an thanks to both you and JZ for reminding us to add a cross reference to this article from the OCW entries on Syrah, Pinot Noir and DNA profiling.

Ross: Great news, Jancis. Thank you very much -- the OCW3 online is a wonderful resource and adds a great deal to my enjoyment of wine.

Regards, Bob


So, short answer, David, because Robinson says it's out of date in important respects and more importantly, is taking steps to moderate the problem.

Regards, Bob
Last edited by Bob Ross on Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Bob Ross » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:56 am

"I think that David Buecker's response is very appropriate. It would be good to see a little more historical perspective on such issues. Authors may well be criticised for publishing too much (when you know how little they are paid, at least in the field of wine, you may begin to comprehend), but one should not slate the honest and conscientious authors, such as Robinson and Johnson, lightly. Their work deserves all our support."

A few points, David:

1. Buecker's points are always appropriate, distasteful as I sometimes find them -- although they certainly weren't distasteful in this case.

2. See my comments on the history supporting my comment in my reply to David.

3. I'll try to comprehend more fully in future.

4. It may be worth noting that my subscription to Purple costs $119 a year, and I've been a paid subscriber since Jancis started her site. Well worth the money, frankly, as I've written in a review [unpaid] which she ran on her site for a couple of years.

5. How about talking about wine, David [Cobbold]?

Regards, Bob
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David M. Bueker » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:56 am

The triumph part was quite clear (and volume with entries on German wine written by David Schildknecht is by definition a triumph), but I appreaciate the clarity on the "out of date" comment.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Bob Ross » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:08 am

Schildknecht's comments on the members forum are always excellent. I sent Jancis a short note -- only partly in jest -- that all Schildknecht comments should be cross-referenced in her updates to the OCW3rd.

Here's an extract from one of his magnificent posts:

While it might appear unseemly for me to be seen rushing to the defence of my friends Messieurs Parker and Kramer in the wake of James Halliday's scathing critique - not least now that I write for The Wine Advocate - I would like to point to several areas in which Halliday's perspective deserves sceptical attention if not correction.

A minor concern is one of historical perspective. Halliday writes that Australia has "failed to market" its "sophisticated" wines, whereas "the French have had 300 years (Bordeaux) to 700 years (Burgundy) in which to accumulate sophisticated marketing know-how." Has it somehow failed to register with him that those oh-so-sophisticated French have of late been falling on their faces in the world market? Furthermore, one need have only a passing acquaintance with the history of wine in our respective countries to realize that - allowing for a late start, rampant root lice, and two wasted decades in Prohibitive exile - California has been at the business of wine for a considerably shorter time than than Australia. Yet, if there is one area where you have to hand it to my West Coast countrymen (although, being a partisan, I would credit them in a great many other respects as well) it would be that they don't neglect marketing! My point, then, is that historically accumulated reputations ­ which count for ever-less - do not modern marketing clout make. Now to a more serious area of contention which, begging the reader's pardon who anticipates an opinion about Australia, I must first approach from my own area of (at least purported) journalistic expertise.

In my two decades covering wines of Austria and Germany for a primarily American readership it has remained a source of amusement - but not mystery - to me the marked degree to which the perspective of Austrian and German journalists and the qualitative pecking order of wines and wineries they espouse differs from my own and that of my countrymen.

In the case of Germany, for example, I make absolutely no apology for maintaining a thoroughly Riesling-centric perspective. It does not surprise me that the Germans themselves take a great deal more interest in - and vociferously defend - local red wines and those crafted from numeous other indigenous and Burgundian white varieties. But I stubbornly and happily defend what I consider the manifest superiority of Germany's best Rieslings to most of the world's other wines, never mind most of Germany's other wines. In matters of style, too, I have over the years conspicuously and systematically begged to differ with my German colleagues. I resolutely proclaim the virtues of the classic post-war Mosel Kabinett and of Spätlesen with judicious residual sugar, whereas for the better part of two decades you could scarcely find a self-proclaimed German wine critic who would admit to tasting - much less giving an unbiased account of - any Riesling having more than 15 or fewer than 100 grams of residual sugar. Even today, and even among sincerely dedicated vintners themselves, one hears the Manichean mantra "if dry then truly dry and if sweet then nobly sweet."

Naturally, such national perspectives - including such as I would deem prejudices - are reflected in magazine articles, tasting journals, restaurant lists, and the results of competitions. But presenting me with a long list of such "evidence" only confirms what I already know about German tastes and perspectives, while doing nothing to dislodge me from my own. I have occasionally even had the temerity, as an outsider, to opine that some icons of German viticulture were scantily clothed.

It was not so many years ago that my German colleagues were ridiculing the preposterous Mr Parker. How dare he compile a "best of" list of German growers,­ a field in which he never claimed special expertise? Based on unprejudiced tasting of the wines such as I and fellow American German wine fanatic Terry Theise were presenting to him from then obscure vintners like Hans-Leo Christoffel, Willi Schäfer, Selbach-Oster, or Müller-Catoir, he got things quite upside down from a German perspective. But compare Germany's wine guides and tip sheets of today ­ or the lines of German supplicants on the mailing lists for the aforementioned wineries - and (please pardon my arrogance, but) one might conclude that the American perspective has begun to gain serious ground even inside Germany. Pre posterous we were indeed, and just possibly prescient. But there is more at stake than pride or published pecking orders. If I can help save a single fine, steep acre for Riesling or one fine Riesling Spätlese from ideological strangulation by Übertrockenheit [over-reverence of dryness, I assume - JR] and astringency, I shall count my work worthwhile.

...
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David M. Bueker » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:19 am

Bob,

I always enjoy David's writings. He is, in my opinion, the finest writer on wine in the USA today.

Sooner or later I am going to have to sign up for the Purple Pages.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David Cobbold » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:30 am

I'm not sure whether my response got through (I have little forum experience).
Ready when you are to talk about wine.
Where do we start?
Terroir? (another sexing the angels topic)
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Bob Ross » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:34 am

David, click on any of the Forum headings when you arrive at the main WineLovers Discussion Group.

Near the bottom of the page, you'll find a New button. Click on it, and type away. You'll start a new post on any topic you choose.

The various Forums are fairly well described, so you can get your post into a general area of interest.

Regards, Bob
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David Cobbold » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:40 am

Dear Bob

Whilst I admire the knowledge and sheer verbal clout of Herr Schildknecht, I cannot admire his byzantine style. I do hope that wine writers can muster up something more digestible and attractive to persuade readers that riesling can be a very good drink.

And I have always been a little dubious when confronted with arguments so blatantly pro-domo.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David M. Bueker » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:51 am

David,

While I agree that David Schildknecht's style takes some intestinal fortitude to get through, for me it conveys his points and provides something I am looking for in writing: intellectual challenge. When David writes I am forced to think. Please see the relatively new publication The Fine Wine Review for more in a style I personally enjoy.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by Bob Ross » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:55 am

I agree, it's always useful to read critically, both as to substance and style, David.

And often lots of fun as well -- I thoroughly enjoyed researching and writing a little study on Parker's use of the word "gobs", for example.

As a matter of curiosity, would you include this third David in your sentence: "one should not slate the honest and conscientious authors, such as Robinson and Johnson, lightly."

Or is he in a different category?


Regards, Bob
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David Cobbold » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:03 am

I agree about being intellectually challenged, and have read something of his (maybe on purple pages) on terroir that was interesting. But does it all have to be so long-winded?
Does proving a point mean that you keep hitting a nail when its head is below flush with the plank?
I hope we can meet sometime to go further on this subject, which I do not want to belabour, helped by some fine rieslings (or other good stuff).
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David M. Bueker » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:09 am

If there is one thing I have always know about David Schildknecht it is to beware when he says that he "doesn't have time to really discuss this, but..." He will go on for pages. I can see where it could seem long-winded, but I enjoy it.

And yes, meeting over a glass of Riesling would be fine. David, I looked at your profile but didn't see where you are located. I do a lot of business travel, so our paths may indeed be able to cross at some point.

And Bob - I think David S. is indeed in a separate category. I doubt anyone will ever take him lightly.
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Re: Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

by David Cobbold » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:19 am

Love being called cellar rat! Who chose this moniker? Happy to keep it anyway.
For the riesling king, I live in Paris. Let me know when you come this way.
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