Clos du Val - old-hat, overlooked, over-rated...?

A mainstream Sydney retailer has acutally got the range of Clos du Val wines for sale. Imagine that! Someone in Australia actually selling US wines not bearing the label 'Gallo'. Admittedly the prices are pretty scary (add 20% to the website/CD prices then convert to $A @ 80¢US), - more than I'd like to spend just investigating. So I turn here for advice. How good are Clos du Val wines these days? I know of the Portet family connection to Victoria, I've drunk the Taltarni wines in the past, but what of the Californian examples? I don't see much written on forums about CdV, but is that just because it's not fashionable? Or is it waaay overpriced & trading on the Napa name (well, more than expected)? Inquiring minds want to know...
There's a range of 02-04 vintages; chardy, Zin, Pinot, Cab-S, Stags Cab...
cheers,
Graeme

Clos Du Val was founded by a Frenchman, so it is not "typical" of California, imo. I like the winery quite a bit. I actually tasted through their "Reserve" line the other day.

My impressions overall for the wines are:

2002 Stag's Leap Cabernet Sauvignon (their mid point bottling between the straight Napa Valley and the "Reserve"): Very dark, earthy blackberry and cassis fruit. Tannins pretty mellow here, this can be drunk now. I might wait, though, to see what secondary flavors develop-it's still mostly about the fruit at the moment (although it is very nice fruit).

Pinot Reserve-earthy, mushroomy, savory but still nice cherry fruit with good "Pinosity". One of the best California Pinots I've had recently, to my palate at least. (I tend to like, in general, more Euro-styles). Given that I usually prefer Bordeaux varieties, I was surprised to find this was my favorite wine of the reserve tasting.

2004 Napa Valley Cabernet-their "basic" bottling-very earthy, chocolaty, savory. Some big tannins. Pretty ripe (2004 was a hot year)< but I enjoyed it enough to have one in my cellar right now.

2001 Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon. Wow-there are some fereocious, almost Barolo-level, tannins here, even at 6 years since vintage. Nice fruit, and their wines usually have good savory and secondary development, but it will take a few years.

1998 Reserve Cabernet-quite nice. A hint of green bell pepper, reflecting the cool, rainy year. Nice.

In answer to your more geenral questions, I don't think Clos Du Val makes wine in the currently "fashionable" style. While there is plenty of fruit, it is not the over-ripe jammy variety. As for pricing, well, by Napa standards they are pretty much par for the course and fair-although these are somewhat "boutique" upper end wines, so.... The 2004 Napa Valley Cabernet is actually pretty fairly priced, given that much of the fruit is from pricey is from chic Stag's Leap District.

Graeme,
I've had Clos du Val wines going back to the late '70s. IMO, they are underrated and usually fly under the radar as far as critical response goes. The Cab Reserve, their flagship bottling, is a very ageworthy Cab, unspectacular in its youth and kind of sneaky in how well it ages. Their Zin is also quite often a nice example, steering clear of the big alcohol-surmaturité style. I haven't had a lot of their recent wines, but my most recent tastes didn't show any dramatic departure in style. The wines are typically elegant and restrained rather than big and showy.

Mark Lipton

Like Mark, I am an OF (old fart) and have drunk Clos du Val since the 70s vintages. I agree that the old ones age well and are quite elegant - but they changed the style. I recall one tasting where a 1985 kicked butt on a 1996 Reserve, which was thinner and much less interesting (I know the vintages had a lot to do with that but the style had changed).

The 1974 was also a beautiful wine, very Bordeaux-like and more complex than many of the big names from the area in that fine vintage.

Like Mark, I am an OF (old fart) and have drunk Clos du Val since the 70s vintages. I agree that the old ones age well and are quite elegant - but they changed the style. I recall one tasting where a 1985 kicked butt on a 1996 Reserve, which was thinner and much less interesting (I know the vintages had a lot to do with that but the style had changed).

Did I get a promotion, Bill? IIRC, I was mired in MAF territory with only a vague hope of reaching OF status any time soon. I feel truly hono(u)red to share this status with you. Next stop for me: curdmudgeonhood.

The 1974 was also a beautiful wine, very Bordeaux-like and more complex than many of the big names from the area in that fine vintage.

I never got a chance to taste the '74, but I had the '78 Reserve in a great horizontal tasting with the Mondavi Reserve, Caymus Estate and Montelena Estate at the time of their release. Of the group, CdV's was the least powerful, but I daresay that it has aged as well or better than the others.

Mark OF Lipton

Did I get a promotion, Bill? IIRC, I was mired in MAF territory with only a vague hope of reaching OF status any time soon. I feel truly hono(u)red to share this status with you. Next stop for me: curdmudgeonhood.

I never got a chance to taste the '74, but I had the '78 Reserve in a great horizontal tasting with the Mondavi Reserve, Caymus Estate and Montelena Estate at the time of their release. Of the group, CdV's was the least powerful, but I daresay that it has aged as well or better than the others.

OK, an hono(u)rary OF then. And I've beaten you to curmudgeon status (just ask Jenise)

Clos du Val has always had an elegance that is most striking when tasted alongside one of those lumbering behemoths ...er, I mean normal California Cabs.

I think I may have one 85 left - get yourself up here for lunch and remind me to bring it (better give me some warning - I THINK I know where it is....)

I've never had a chance to try the older CdV, but the leaner current (thinner) style is definitely different than the typical Calibomb....so

Curmudgenioty (is that a word?) and proof there of!

Bill I won't deny that you are a curmudgeon, now will I dispute that Jenise might offer proof there of. However, I do challenge you as to longevity as a curmudgeon, and I refer you back to your own proof. If she doesn't swear to you that I take the prize, then she is lying to you, just to stay in your good graces and to get a chance to raid your cellar!

Curmudgenioty (is that a word?) and proof there of!

Here you go, does this cover both of us?:

A curmudgeon's reputation for malevolence is undeserved. They're neither warped nor evil at heart. They don't hate mankind, just mankind's absurdities. They're just as sensitive and soft-hearted as the next guy, but they hide their vulnerability beneath a crust of misanthropy. They ease the pain by turning hurt into humor. . . . . . They attack maudlinism because it devalues genuine sentiment. . . . . . Nature, having failed to equip them with a servicable denial mechanism, has endowed them with astute perception and sly wit.
Curmudgeons are mockers and debunkers whose bitterness is a symptom rather than a disease. They can't compromise their standards and can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness. Their awareness is a curse.
Perhaps curmudgeons have gotten a bad rap in the same way that the messenger is blamed for the message: They have the temerity to comment on the human condition without apology. They not only refuse to applaud mediocrity, they howl it down with morose glee. Their versions of the truth unsettle us, and we hold it against them, even though they soften it with humor.
- JON WINOKUR

Here you go, does this cover both of us?:

A curmudgeon's reputation for malevolence is undeserved. They're neither warped nor evil at heart. They don't hate mankind, just mankind's absurdities. They're just as sensitive and soft-hearted as the next guy, but they hide their vulnerability beneath a crust of misanthropy. They ease the pain by turning hurt into humor. . . . . . They attack maudlinism because it devalues genuine sentiment. . . . . . Nature, having failed to equip them with a servicable denial mechanism, has endowed them with astute perception and sly wit.
Curmudgeons are mockers and debunkers whose bitterness is a symptom rather than a disease. They can't compromise their standards and can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness. Their awareness is a curse.
Perhaps curmudgeons have gotten a bad rap in the same way that the messenger is blamed for the message: They have the temerity to comment on the human condition without apology. They not only refuse to applaud mediocrity, they howl it down with morose glee. Their versions of the truth unsettle us, and we hold it against them, even though they soften it with humor.
- JON WINOKUR

I think it does Bill, now we just have to get Jenise to agree.

I think it does Bill, now we just have to get Jenise to agree.

I've found Jenise very agreeable - she always agrees to drink my wine....

OK, an hono(u)rary OF then. And I've beaten you to curmudgeon status (just ask Jenise)

You've always been a step (or 2 or 3) ahead of me, Bill. That's why I use you as a role model (if that doesn't scare you, nothing will).

I think I may have one 85 left - get yourself up here for lunch and remind me to bring it (better give me some warning - I THINK I know where it is....)

That's quite an offer. I have no CalCab of similar age to offer up in return, so what to do? I might just have to bring that magnum of '75 Latour as a ringer or something...

(Prompted by this banter, I checked my d/b: I've purchased no CalCabs from this millenium! That's an oversight I'll have to rectify)

Mark Lipton

CdV is a wnry I followed from the very start. The '72 Cab and Zin were amazingly good wines for that rain-besotted vintage. Thru the mid-'70's, they wre regular buys for me and I liked them quite a lot...polished/elegant/well-made...definitely more of a French style.
Then around the early '80's, the wines seemed to fall off in quality. Not bad wines, but just a bit on the light & boring side, not very distinctive. During that period, I visited a couple of times w/ Bernard and he just didn't seem to have the spark and passion I remember in him from the first meeting in the mid-'70's. Like he was bored and just going thru the motions.
To tell the truth, I haven't followed the CdV very closely over the last 20 yrs or so. I'll taste 2-3 a yr in a tasting event or something and haven't tasted anything that would change my opinion of CdV. Maybe I should revisit them.
Tom

(Prompted by this banter, I checked my d/b: I've purchased no CalCabs from this millenium! That's an oversight I'll have to rectify)

Mark Lipton

I won't be - the price of Calcabs has been prohibitive since the late 1990s in our market, and even though our dollar in Canada is worth more than yours (today, anyway), that won't change any time soon.

Tom - interesting comments. I recall that the wines were interesting a little later - mid 80s. I also enjoyed some of the fraternally produced Taltarnis - got some 1988 I should get into.

Tom - interesting comments. I recall that the wines were interesting a little later - mid 80s. I also enjoyed some of the fraternally produced Taltarnis - got some 1988 I should get into.

Like I said, Bill, I've not followed them very closely since the early-'80's. So you may very well be right. The one wine of theirs I've consistently liked is the Semillon.

As for the Taltarnis...those I liked quite a lot when they were first released, and they aged quite well I thought. But I never see them at retail, so haven't had any of them for yrs.
Tom

I also enjoyed some of the fraternally produced Taltarnis - got some 1988 I should get into.

Gosh that makes me feel better as I have an `88 Shiraz here!! Thanks Bill.