Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
35751
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
35751
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
David M. Bueker wrote:'98 Vieux Telegraphe has pretty much universally been recognized as nowhere near prime time on other sites, so I'm at a bit of a loss to explain your bottle. 60 degrees should not matter much for a wine like VT after only 10 years or so.
James Roscoe
Chat Prince
11057
Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm
D.C. Metro Area - Maryland
OW Holmes wrote:And, Robin, the Pallieres Gigondas had exactly the same provenance as the VT and the Pegau. They were purchased a month apart, and stored side by side.
Very strange.
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
35751
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Bob Henrick
Kamado Kommander
3919
Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:35 pm
Lexington, Ky.
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
35751
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11757
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
James Roscoe
Chat Prince
11057
Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm
D.C. Metro Area - Maryland
Gregg G wrote: In regards to the Vieux Telegraphe, I can say with confidence, this wine is nowhere near peak. VT wines are long lived as recent '85, '88, '89s have been excellent. A recent '95 was still vibrant and young. All of the VTs I've purchased over the years are Kermit Lynch imports. I would be learly of grey market bottlings.
James Roscoe wrote:Educate me please. what do you mean by "gray market" bottlings? I have seen this term come up before, but I really don't understand its meaning. Sorry for the inevitable thread drift.
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11757
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Mark Lipton wrote: Grey market wines are wines brought into this country through channels other than the official importer. Certain retailers (e.g. Premier Cru) are known for carrying a lot of grey market wines. Some might arrive here though secondary market (auctions, cellar purchases) transactions, others through deals with Canadian importers, etc. The issue of provenance is often a big one with grey market imports, as is the question of counterfeiting with the more prestigious ones. Jancis Robinson, I believe, has stated that most of the high-profile cases of counterfeit Petrus and DRC can be traced to grey market sources.
Dale Williams wrote:I thought most counterfeit bottles entered market through auction? I've never heard of a batch of counterfeits being traced to any major gray marketeer- would soon put them out of business. Maybe a stray bottle or two, but that's probably true of anyone dealing in secondary market.
Most of the big grey (I like to switch spellings) marketeers get most of their wine by taking advantage of price differentials in various markets- in other words, arbitrage. Chateau Lipton is popular in US, sells 10,000 cases to importer for $25/bottle. Marked up distributor to retailer to customer, $50 bottle. Chateau Lipton wants to break into Polish market, sells Krakow distributor 2,000 cases at $16/bottle. Big Edie, an agent of GreyGardens Imports (grey marketeer), offers distributor (or a retailer) a quick buy of half his cases. Ends up in US at $40/bottle. Figures are probably off- we need JBL- but that's basic idea.
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11757
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Mark Lipton wrote:If one considers any imported wine not brought into this country via the official importer to be a grey market wine, then auctions count as grey market, too. In my comment, I wasn't implying that a place like PC deals in counterfeit wines, but rather that the counterfeits didn't bear the imprimatur of the official importer.
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11757
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
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