St. Innocent question

I've seen that Jenise seems to be up to date on St. Innocent's wines. Perhaps others of you might also be able to answer my question.

I've purchased a 2004 St. Innocent Anden Vineyard PN and was considering taking it to a certain "cool" event on the 25th. Would this be a wise decision on my part? Or would I be strung up for infanticide? I'm not familiar with this particular bottle - and I'm woefully out of touch with appropriate drinking windows, etc.....

I've seen that Jenise seems to be up to date on St. Innocent's wines. Perhaps others of you might also be able to answer my question.

I've purchased a 2004 St. Innocent Anden Vineyard PN and was considering taking it to a certain "cool" event on the 25th. Would this be a wise decision on my part? Or would I be strung up for infanticide? I'm not familiar with this particular bottle - and I'm woefully out of touch with appropriate drinking windows, etc.....

Laura,
It all depends on what you want to get out of the wine. I suspect that it'll develop for another 5+ years before reaching maturity, but it's not likely to be undrinkable now. What you're likely to get from it is an early picture of a nice Pinot Noir that'll mostly show "primary" fruit rather than the more evolved, "secondary" and "tertiary" aromas that come later in its development. Unlike a Barolo or Cornas, it's not going to be hellaciously tannic, though it might be a bit tight and austere when first opened. You might want to decant it ahead of time to help it open up.

Mark Lipton

I'm a big believer in decanting Oregon PN before you enjoy it. And also doing what you can to be sure it's not too warm when you drink it.

When taking a bottle to an event, sometimes I will open it up and pour it into a decanter to open up for an hour or so, then pour it back into the bottle. I'll bring it down to cellar temperature, and carry it in a bag I got from Wine Entusiast that has freezer pack inserts.

Upon arrival the wine is already decanted and at proper temperature. Now all you have to worry about is having a proper glass to drink it out of, but that's another story.

BTW, I was at St. Innocent last May, and tasted the 05's. They were as good as the 04's. I especially liked the Shea. Big changes are coming at St. Innocent. The winery is moving this fall and the Seven Seas and Anden vineyards will not be in the line-up after the '06 vintage.

[Jenise]

Laura, Jason's better at St. Innocent than I am, but I have to say that I'd be a bit worried about the Anden going into a shut-down phase about now. That is, the Seven Springs will be going to sleep soon and I'd expect the Anden to track the SS. If that's the case, then additional to what Mark said, it might take that puppy days to open up.

Would this be a wise decision on my part? Or would I be strung up for infanticide? I'm not familiar with this particular bottle - and I'm woefully out of touch with appropriate drinking windows, etc.....

I am not sure what you mean by "cool". If this is a wine crowd/people that enjoy pinot noir, I think this wine my be okay. I haven't tried it since last October but at that time it was very tasty. Much more approachable than previous Andens. But will it be at its peak ... no ... unless you prefer your pinot in a more primary phase. Then I would say drink it and drink it quick. As Jenise mentioned, these wines can shut down ... and shut down hard.

Again...it kind of depends on the crowd. I rarely bring SIs to a crowd of casual wine drinkers...they are often too austere. But once again...the last time I tasted this wine ... it was a crowd pleaser. If you want to read about it ... go here http://thescrutiny.blogspot.com/2006/10/dinner-belle-provenance-vineayrd-w-st.html

Pleas let us know what you decide!

Jason

The winery is moving this fall and the Seven Seas and Anden vineyards will not be in the line-up after the '06 vintage.

Sadly none of the people that made Seven Springs famous will be getting the fruit any more. Thankfully there are many new great vineyards emerging in Oregon.

Jason

But will it be at its peak ... no ... unless you prefer your pinot in a more primary phase. Then I would say drink it and drink it quick. As Jenise mentioned, these wines can shut down ... and shut down hard.

Jason and Jenise, I'm relatively new to this board and am not familiar with this shut down phase you speak of. Or the primary phase before it. Could you explain this a little? Or point me to where you've explained it before?

I love Oregon (and some Santa Barbara County) PN and age them a little. Once in a while I drink one that just seems flat that is a couple of years old. Is that what you speak of?

Thanks in advance.

Jason and Jenise, I'm relatively new to this board and am not familiar with this shut down phase you speak of. Or the primary phase before it. Could you explain this a little?

I guess these are the sometimes used descriptors that can mean slightly different things and are not very clear. I will give it a shot in a few sentences and perhaps others can elaborate. Mark, above, wrote with a little more clarity when he said “likely to get from it is an early picture of a nice Pinot Noir that'll mostly show "primary" fruit rather than the more evolved, "secondary" and "tertiary" aromas that come later in its development."

In a way, “shut down” a “primary” are clear although some may not use the term shut down. St Innocent wines, more so prior to 2002/3 were made in a more austere style and not totally focused on fruit. Upon release, the wines may be drinkable despite the tannin and acid. There would still be enough “primary fruit” at the front palate. Cherries, strawberries maybe forward clove spice. But after a few years they would go through a phase were they would not show anything short of tannin, oak and/or acid. They were no fun in this phase. They were “shut down” or sleeping. Most wines that age or are meant to age will have this phase, usually many times. With aging other flavors and aromas develop as Mark mentioned. A big part of the new wave of pinot drinker loves pinot for the big fruit…primary phase. Brian Loring, Adam Lee and others have talked about there love for younger pinot. No slight on older pinot but they love the big fruit and make there wine, in general, to be consumed early. I think California shines for this type of wine. I, in general, buy and drink Cali pinot for big primary fruit. While most Burgundy (1er & GC) I would hope to keep for 10-20 years (vintage dependant). But at 10 years, in a positive scenario, the wine will be showing elegance with its flowers, tea, earth and texture.

I hope this is kind of what you were looking for.

Jason

I love Oregon (and some Santa Barbara County) PN and age them a little. Once in a while I drink one that just seems flat that is a couple of years old. Is that what you speak of?.

Hmmm....this sounds like a bigger problem. In California and the new wave of Oregon Pinot, wines have had a bigger focus on fruit and often times less acid. Once that fruit fades ever so slightly you just get a flabby mess. That mess will be even more pronounced if you have the wine with food. That sounds more like what you are describing. There is no returning from the phase I am describing where as you always hope for a return from a "shut down" phase.

Can you give a specific example?

Jason

Thanks Jason, I think I get the gist. I may start buying two of each, one to enjoy soon, and one to lay down. As for the specific example, I'll wait til it happens again. I can't remember the last one with enough specifics.

You said you like the Cali PN. Are you more of a RRV guy or a Santa Barbara county guy? I'm fond of the Sea Smoke and the Foxen myself and enjoy visiting that region along with Paso. It reminds me a little of Oregon in that it doesn't seem like Napa.

You said you like the Cali PN. Are you more of a RRV guy or a Santa Barbara county guy? I'm fond of the Sea Smoke and the Foxen myself and enjoy visiting that region along with Paso. It reminds me a little of Oregon in that it doesn't seem like Napa.

I am not sure I have a favorite area in Cali. I seem to enjoy most of them. Primarily RRV, Anderson Valley and I am growing fond of Santa Rita Hills. I generally do not like Santa Lucia Highlands for Pinot. Although I really like the Sleepy Hollow vineyard.

If people ask me about where to go I never say Napa if they are looking for a personal touch. That is what I love about Oregon and Central Cali. So many great wineries now. Lots to choose from. I am happy for that. I buy a lot of Arcadian, WesMar (the RRV stuff), Swan, Radio Coteau, Clos Pepe, Kosta Browne (when I want a bruiser) etc.

Jason

[Jenise]

Thanks Jason, I think I get the gist. I may start buying two of each, one to enjoy soon, and one to lay down. As for the specific example, I'll wait til it happens again. I can't remember the last one with enough specifics.

Jason explained it well, Ray. But more specifically with regard to St. Innocent wines, the Seven Springs (moot point now, I know) historically goes to sleep at around age 3 and doesn't wake up until it's about 8 years old. Although I prefer the wine in that second phase, and like Jason drink Cali's for primary fruit, I will always drink a bottle or two in the primary phase with this motherly expectation that having known my baby, I will recognize him again when he grows up. Oh wait, we're talking pinot. Make that her.

Thanks Jason, I think I get the gist. I may start buying two of each, one to enjoy soon, and one to lay down. As for the specific example, I'll wait til it happens again. I can't remember the last one with enough specifics..

This is the best thing to do to learn about a particular wine. When I see people buying 10 different wines I always recommend buy 2 bottles of 5 wines ... or something like that.

Jason

Oh wait, we're talking pinot. Make that her.

Good save!

Thanks for all the feedback! Based on your responses, I think I will let this sit aside for a while. Maybe even make an attempt at some longterm cellaring... My available space is beginning to expand past just a small wine fridge (that no longer allows me to adjust the temperature and keeps things too cold), so this is a good excuse.

Jason, I was being obtuse (an attempt at cuteness) when I said a "cool" event. I was speaking of Semi-Cool in Ann Arbor next weekend. So if any Semi-Coolers would prefer that I bring it, feel free to speak up! My mind can be changed.

There is no such thing as an Innocent question.
Or a free lunch for that matter.

Alex R.