The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Grapes That Really Make a Difference

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9986

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Bill Spohn » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:01 pm

You can have various blends of grapes that vary a fair bit - maybe 10% or so either way in any single component without showing a drastic difference in what you detect when you taste it - merlot, cab franc etc.

But then there are those grapes where a very small percentage added to the blend makes a very noticeable difference to the wine.

I'll offer a couple - the addition of Viognier to red Northern Rhone wines can affect them a lot - particularly in the nose. The other one is what gave rise to this post - I recently tasted a blended white wine that had 1% Muscat added to it and it gave it a Muscat nose that would make you swear that Muscat was a major component of the wine.

Any other nominees for grapes that seem to have a sensory affect way out of proportion to the amount added?
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11433

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Dale Williams » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:11 pm

well, I'd add Gewurztraminer. Even a little adds a lot to a nose (for better or worse). So probably the crucial thing is that all three are at the top of the list of what most of us would list as "aromatic" varieties.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

34955

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by David M. Bueker » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:14 pm

I would argue that Cab Franc can have a great effect.

A lot depends on what you are blending it into. Cabernet Sauvignon can overwhelm Sangiovese (see super Tuscans).
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21721

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Robin Garr » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:16 pm

Bill Spohn wrote:Any other nominees for grapes that seem to have a sensory affect way out of proportion to the amount added?


I'll strongly concur with your Muscat nomination. I spoke on a recent TalkShoe about an Italian wine, made annually in Cividale in Friuli for a fund-raiser for a non-profit organization, that's a blend of *500* grape varieties.

The resulting wine is a light red in color ... and it smells and tastes like Muscat. Five hundred varieties, and that one dominates all the rest.
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Hoke » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:45 pm

Symphony, along with the others mentioned.

And somewhat more of a niche, but those who know know what I'm talking about: Petite Sirah.

On the opposite side, a variety that holds its own character amazingly well, and tends to dominate whatever is added to it: Cabernet Sauvignon. No matter what you mix with it, the CS nature still holds forth. It can be influence, but it's hard to dominate it.
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Hoke » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:54 pm

Ooh, very good.

I almost said Petit Verdot in my previous post, Randy! Through my various and sundry dabblings with some CA Meritage-style wines as well as Bordeaux clarets, I have seen some impressive changes in blends from very small additions of PV. There's a distinct floral/perfumey quality to it that makes it stand out as a blender grape. And in larger quantities I think it also has some soft weighty textural attributes that 'fatten' up and soften out a blend.
no avatar
User

Sue Courtney

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1809

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:33 pm

Location

Auckland, NZ

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Sue Courtney » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:13 pm

Dale Williams wrote:well, I'd add Gewurztraminer. Even a little adds a lot to a nose (for better or worse). So probably the crucial thing is that all three are at the top of the list of what most of us would list as "aromatic" varieties.

I'd second that - add a tiny portion of gewurztraminer to a bland pinot gris and, hey presto, the aromatics are enhanced, the taste is enhanced - it actually makes a more user friendly wine.
no avatar
User

Carl Eppig

Rank

Our Maine man

Posts

4149

Joined

Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:38 pm

Location

Middleton, NH, USA

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Carl Eppig » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:41 pm

Maybe it's because we drink it so much, but our nominee is Montepulciano. When we order a Monte by the glass and somebody brings a substitute such as "house" Chianti, I spit it halfway across the floor.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9425

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Rahsaan » Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:08 pm

Cinsault.

Fierce stuff.
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9986

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Bill Spohn » Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:23 pm

The question could be asked about those wines that are traditionally a blend of many varietals - just what does each varietal add to the mix and would any of them fall into the class of 'influential varietals' (in terms of taste) that we are talking about.

The two multi-blend examples that come to mind are Chianti and Chateauneuf du Pape.

I think that Chianti has tended recently to reduce the number of components and to minimise use of the white varietals (malvasia Toscana and trebbiano). But what does canaiolo add?

And with CNduP, a blend of up to 13 varietals (5 of them white skinned) I think there has similarly beed a reduction in the minor varietals but one wonders if some of the other red components are 'influential (Cinsault and Syrah in particular).
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Hoke » Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:33 pm

what does canaiolo add?
Adds color and decreases cost.



one wonders if some of the other red components are 'influential (Cinsault and Syrah in particular).


I underwstand what you're getting at, but having tasted (fairly) extensively amongst the consituent varieties used in CdP, and having tasted very extensively with CdP and CdR wines with varying degrees of Syrah in the blends, there's no doubt in my mind that Syrah can be 'influential' in those blends. (Not necessary, mind you; just influential when used--i.e., the presence or absence makes a difference.)

And if we're going down this path, then we have to bring up Sauvignon Blanc/Semillon. No doubt in my mind that Semillon makes a significant difference when blended with SB.
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4338

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Mark Lipton » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:53 pm

Bill Spohn wrote:And with CNduP, a blend of up to 13 varietals (5 of them white skinned) I think there has similarly beed a reduction in the minor varietals but one wonders if some of the other red components are 'influential (Cinsault and Syrah in particular).


If you query winemakers in the region, they'll generally tell you that: a) they use 5-6 of the varieties for the most part and b) the Grenache is there for the red fruit; the Mourvedre is there for the aging potential; the Syrah is there for the black fruit and the Cinsault is there to add some perfume. I rarely hear anyone talking about what gives the wines their meaty/gamey character, but then we all know that that comes from the Brett, don't we? I can't recall ever hearing anyone singing the praises of Bourboulenc or Terret Noir for what they bring to the wine (when they're present at all, it usually seems to be the result of a field blend)

Mark Lipton
no avatar
User

Victor de la Serna

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

292

Joined

Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:50 pm

Location

Madrid, Spain

Re: Grapes That Really Make a Difference

by Victor de la Serna » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:00 pm

Randy R wrote:
Hoke wrote:having tasted a 100% Petit Verdot, this is not a grape that can do a one man show, ever.

Try a few more, Randy. Ripe petit verdot, i.e. PV from warmer climes than Médoc, can be outstanding. Abadía Retuerta and Dominio de Valdepusa are two prime Spanish examples.

Sauvignon blanc, OTOH, is noticeable at extremely low percentages.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign