Open Mike: Cahors, the original Malbec.

Thanks I have watched the video – for others if you don’t want to watch it all skip to 5.00 mins.
Also you might not have read the report of Robert Parkers blind tasting errors
http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/02/blind- ... rt-parker/

Anyway having another of my budget favourite wines tonight L’Esquisse du Chateau Pineraie. Very nice chateau, friendly and welcoming near Puy L’éveque.
Excuse my ignorance but are you all aware of the 4 terasse levels (1 being river level)
around the Lot? Clos Triguedina level 3, Chateau Chambert level 4. There are arguments of course that are up to 9?

Bob
Certainly not legoland/jellymould international! It will be interesting, having only drunk perhaps 1/3 of the bottle, what the remainder is like tonight. Might be a good match for some Lamb Noissetes, though being stuffed with Apricot & IIRC Pine-nuts, it might not be an ideal food match.
regards
Ian

Lamb with apricots? You been watching too much Nigella!

John asks.......Excuse my ignorance but are you all aware of the 4 terasse levels (1 being river level)
around the Lot? Clos Triguedina level 3, Chateau Chambert level 4. There are arguments of course that are up to 9?

That is the first time I was made aware of this. Perhaps Tim is in the know?

John asks.......Excuse my ignorance but are you all aware of the 4 terasse levels (1 being river level)
around the Lot? Clos Triguedina level 3, Chateau Chambert level 4. There are arguments of course that are up to 9?

That is the first time I was made aware of this. Perhaps Tim is in the know?

I mentioned three terrace levels plus the Causses plateau in my introductory note.

Each chateau I have visited is normally at great pains to explain that their terroir is superior to the others, normally explaining that the others are not on the same terasse as them. Notably the more upmarket ones. Then it is how old the vines are, where the vines are situated, what the gap is in between the vines, whether it is stone or grass between (sometimes alternating years), how much sun do the grapes receive and what direction. I’ll stop there as I could go on for ever.
Sorry I sound like a know all here - I don't mean to be. I’ll stop posting for a bit and re-read the original postings.

John
Don't feel you should stop John! What might be a light knowledge compared to local winemakers and people who've lived in the region for 50+ years, is likely to be pretty good detail for the vinous floozies that many of us are, tasting here there and everywhere and picking up snippets as we go.

Bob
I was not watching Nigella Our local butcher has them pre-prepared and the meat looked excellent, so we thought we'd give it a go. As it happens they'll have to wait until tomorrow, as the brains of the operation is having a snooze, so no point having a big meal if she gets back up at 8pm or later.

p.s. the Haut-Monplaisir was a little more open tonight with some meaty complexity emerging. Still a tannic grip to the finish, but this is Cahors after all so I ain't complainin' right!

regards

Ian

There are arguments of course that are up to 9?

How do they get to 9, John?

[Jenise]

Had a taste of a 2000 Clos de Gamot cuvee des vignes centennaires last night. It had been open 24 hours. Needs more time in the bottle, but lots of promise in a very old style, burly (tannat?) wine with great body and sturdy tannins.

There are arguments of course that are up to 9?

How do they get to 9, John?

Classification of the 9 terroirs of the AOC Cahors:

alluvial zones :
1st terrace T1
2nd terrace T2
3rd terrace T3
limestone scree T4
limestone covered slopes: limestone slope T5
upper quartenary T6
limestone plateau: siderolitic T7
white marly-limestone T8
limestone plateau T9

I have more details if you want, including some chateau on higher than T4.

Have I scrolled through this discussion too quickly? Have we gotten this far without mentioning Georges Vigouroux?

Here's a link to a report of a visit to one of his properties, Chateau de Haute-Serre, from back in October. It rehashes some of the history that Tim presented in his opening post, but if you scroll down there are some observations about the harvest, vinification practices, and a tasting note or two.

Dave, here is my WTN of an impressive but very young wine from Vigouroux opened in 2008.

Château Haute-Serre AOC Cahors 2004 – GFA Georges Vigouroux – Alc. 13.5% - (€ 11,50).

C: Deep.
N: Dark woodland fruit, liquorice with some jam and vanilla.
P: Powerful and austere splendour and good dark fruit with similar aromas to the nose, quite angular liquorice covered tannins and good length.

Bought partly to put in the sauce of a Cahors regional duck dish, Germaine finds it too tannic for her to enjoy her share of the remaining two-thirds with the meal. I am more tannin tolerant, so can enjoy it at present and think that in a few years it could be a fine bottle once the jam, vanilla and tannins are tamed; 14.5/20 now with ++ potential.

(After writing this note, I discover that the 2007 edition of Guide Hachette has given this wine ***; their top award.)

It made a wonderful sauce and also a good sorbet. In deference to Germaine, I served a fine Lamartine Expression 99 with the duck; my guess is that this Haute-Serre will become very similar to it by its 9th year.

There are arguments of course that are up to 9?

How do they get to 9, John?

Classification of the 9 terroirs of the AOC Cahors:

alluvial zones :
1st terrace T1
2nd terrace T2
3rd terrace T3
limestone scree T4
limestone covered slopes: limestone slope T5
upper quartenary T6
limestone plateau: siderolitic T7
white marly-limestone T8
limestone plateau T9

I have more details if you want, including some chateau on higher than T4.

That is fascinating, John. Would you let us know a handful or so of estates above T4 which you consider very good. Are there maps showing this detail?

Dave, here is my WTN of an impressive but very young wine from Vigouroux opened in 2008.

Château Haute-Serre AOC Cahors 2004 – GFA Georges Vigouroux – Alc. 13.5% - (€ 11,50).

C: Deep.
N: Dark woodland fruit, liquorice with some jam and vanilla.
P: Powerful and austere splendour and good dark fruit with similar aromas to the nose, quite angular liquorice covered tannins and good length.

Bought partly to put in the sauce of a Cahors regional duck dish, Germaine finds it too tannic for her to enjoy her share of the remaining two-thirds with the meal. I am more tannin tolerant, so can enjoy it at present and think that in a few years it could be a fine bottle once the jam, vanilla and tannins are tamed; 14.5/20 now with ++ potential.

(After writing this note, I discover that the 2007 edition of Guide Hachette has given this wine ***; their top award.)

It made a wonderful sauce and also a good sorbet. In deference to Germaine, I served a fine Lamartine Expression 99 with the duck; my guess is that this Haute-Serre will become very similar to it by its 9th year.

Until recently, I would never dream of opening a Cahors with fewer than 10 years in the bottle; your experience seems appropriate and typical. The "until recently" part is that in the last year I've opened an '05 Cedre, an '06 Haut-Plaisir, and an '07 Coutale, and they've all been quite civilized. I'm too lazy to check, but I think at least two of them had 10% or more Merlot in them...

Although there are officially 9 levels (as defined by Ferme Experimental Anglars Juillac) in reality most of the chateaux say they are either 1, 2, 3 or on the causse. Some are actually on T6.
They only true way of knowing what level they are is to know their altitude and soil testing.
I would say that some of Clos Triguedina is on 2 but their best wine comes from their level 3 area. Chateau Chambert altitude is 259 m so would be T5 or possibly T6 as 300 metres is the plateau.

Quote from printed info I have:

"The terraces of the lot valley
The Lot river is boarded by three levels of terraces made up of alluvial deposits from the Massif Central (T1, T2, T3). The higher the elevation of the terrace, the better the soil drainage. The lower terraces close to the river produce supple and fruity wines. The medium ones produce fleshier wines. It is the upper ones, as well as the soil made up of limestone scree from the plateau (T4), that produce the richest Cahors, best suitable for ageing. Also of note are the terraces of the upper quaternary era (T6) -- alluvial soil deposits -- covering the rocks and resisting erosion: these are much rarer, but they also produce very renowned wines.

The plateau
A limestone plateau dominates the Lot valley at an elevation of 300 metres (900 ft.). Two-thirds of the vineyard are located on the Lot’s alluvial terraces. The rest is situated on the surrounding slopes and limestone plateaux. quaternary era (T6) -- alluvial soil deposits -- covering the rocks and resisting erosion: these are much rarer, but they also produce very renowned wines. "

PS Birthday tomorrow so brought in from cold cellar a 2005 Chateau Chambert Orphée for tomorrow night.

All great info! Well here is some more. Gary V tastes Cahors!!

http://tv.winelibrary.com/2010/02/03/20 ... isode-810/

The`05 Haut Monplaisir and the `00 Ch Lagrezette Pigeonnier.

Thanks for posting that link, Bob. As always I'm fascinated by the vivid descriptors than Gary pulls out of his hat, which capture the essence of the wines. At least I'm guessing that he does for the Pigonnier because I've never had it and, at that price, probably never will. Note that Gary says that the Pigonnier tastes like top class Bordeaux, by which I infer that it has lost Cahors typicity, unlike the Haut-Montplasir; not surprising after 28 months in new oak.

Tim, think he said originally around $150 US. Was on special via Cinderella wines for $70. All sold out!

I just opened that `05 Berangeraie I was bragging about. Very tasty, quite traditional I think. Will post TN asap after 24 hrs. In-house PO thought we should buy more (scratch head).

WTN: `05 Domaine La Berangeraie Cuvee Maurin, Cahors.

Paul Strang in his new book giver this domaine a very good write up, more traditional than some of the properties in the area, seems to be the general gist.

100% Malbec vinified in tank, 3 cuvees, non-filtered. $22 Cdn, 13% alc. Opened and decanted half hour. Blobs of sediment noted, good natural cork, cellared for 6 months chez Doris!

Color. Dark purple, medium intense centre/looks appealing.

Nose. Cherry, cassis, raspberry, floral, "cocoa" from across the table. Nice smooth aromatics, better on day 2 but no big overnight transition. I just like it!

Palate. Initial entry thoughts were dry, traditional style, red fruits, pepper, fine tannins. Medium-bodied, juicy acidity somewhat, "boysenberry". Very appealing style of Cahors, drinks well now. Dusty earthy finish, this malbec tells me what the grape can do when handled properly and without all that modern hoop-la!!
Day 2 hint of some riper fruit and nice secondary character. See the `06 is on the shelf, I`m in!

That sounds a nice one, Bob. Good QPR, too. Should be around €10-12 here or in France. I hope the 06 will be as good. 05 was a super vintage.

For those interested in my wine, take a looksie here....>

http://www.weygandtwines.com/cgi-bin/co ... n&key=2509

Loire-heads and Alsace admirers should click further!!

WTN: `05 Domaine La Berangeraie Cuvee Maurin, Cahors.

Paul Strang in his new book giver this domaine a very good write up, more traditional than some of the properties in the area, seems to be the general gist.

I visited this domaine in October at the vendange.
Fabulous setting with long sweeping views oover the vines. We spent over two hours with Mme Béranger the owner.
After a tour and a tasting of the crushed grapes (grape juice) we were invited into her house for a lesson on tasting. She went through each of her wines giving an explanation of the expected tastes etc.
It is an extended family enterprise, Maurin and Juline are her children - so the wines are named after them.
Also her son in January Maurin Béranger became the new Président of l'AOC Cahors.
I still have two bottles of La Nuit des Rossignols 2007, but am keeping a bit longer.
One of the best domaines we have visited - due to visit again this April onwards with our tours.

Thank you John for this great insight. I may have got a few forumites here excited, not many are going to find this wine over here I think.

Convey my best wishes to the family from Canada!

I have a bruise on my head after banging it against the wall!

http://www.vinography.com/archives/2010 ... astin.html

I read this last week and just closed the page down and tried to forget about it!
Sometimes some people just don't like some wines. I have always struggled with most white wines and am not a fan of Champagne. It does seem a shame that he did not try some of the top wines but I suspect he was on a “mission” to dislike all Cahors.

I'm not surprised that some people react like that to Cahors wines especially from countries where the predominant preference has been honed by convenience foods for the sweet toothed majority. Given that the writer is clearly predisposed against the style, I think that he has tried to be even handed. It does highlight the difficulties facing the Cahors trade and their dilemma between a quite austere authenticity and the need to dumb down to get a bigger market.