To Cork or Not To Cork?

[David M. Bueker]

The idea of sniffing the cork to detect TCA does not make as much sense as sticking your nose in the glass. But maybe they show it to you to demonstrate how long and fine a cork it is, and that it is not damp all the way to the top. I do sniff the cork when I remove it from the bottle but have never noticed anything of significance at all. Good or bad. Not too sure why I do it.

Neil, I hope some others chime in on this, otherwise you will write off my opinion as corked - and I am sure it won't be the first or last time. But I have always detected TCA and every other flaw on the cork much more easily than in the glass, where alcohols and other volatiles fight for recognition. If you have never noticed anything significant on a cork, either your nose is flawed or you are drinking some pretty sterile wine. I know that sounds harsh, but it is a fact.

I completely agree with Neil, but you expected that, didn't you Covert. I also think that your comment regarding Neil's nose or the wine he drinks was ridiculous and uncalled for.

I completely agree with Neil, but you expected that, didn't you Covert. I also think that your comment regarding Neil's nose or the wine he drinks was ridiculous and uncalled for.

Didn't worry me in the slightest David. I am quite thick skinned.

[David M. Bueker]

I completely agree with Neil, but you expected that, didn't you Covert. I also think that your comment regarding Neil's nose or the wine he drinks was ridiculous and uncalled for.

Didn't worry me in the slightest David. I am quite thick skinned.

I'm not today...long day.

The idea of sniffing the cork to detect TCA does not make as much sense as sticking your nose in the glass. But maybe they show it to you to demonstrate how long and fine a cork it is, and that it is not damp all the way to the top. I do sniff the cork when I remove it from the bottle but have never noticed anything of significance at all. Good or bad. Not too sure why I do it.

Neil, I hope some others chime in on this, otherwise you will write off my opinion as corked - and I am sure it won't be the first or last time. But I have always detected TCA and every other flaw on the cork much more easily than in the glass, where alcohols and other volatiles fight for recognition. If you have never noticed anything significant on a cork, either your nose is flawed or you are drinking some pretty sterile wine. I know that sounds harsh, but it is a fact.

I completely agree with Neil, but you expected that, didn't you Covert. I also think that your comment regarding Neil's nose or the wine he drinks was ridiculous and uncalled for.

David, yes, I would have expected that you would agree with Neil if I had thought about it. I won't say anything more about it now, but I will assemble some evidence and submit it later. TCA on a cork is so pronounced and glaring to me, and my wife, that I am sure that there are many connoisseurs who would agree. If no one on this forum will come forth in the affirmative it says to me that a lot of WLDG members are far more concerned with conformity and being nice to nice members like Neil than they are with being true to wine and forthright.

Neil, I hope some others chime in on this, otherwise you will write off my opinion as corked - and I am sure it won't be the first or last time. But I have always detected TCA and every other flaw on the cork much more easily than in the glass, where alcohols and other volatiles fight for recognition. If you have never noticed anything significant on a cork, either your nose is flawed or you are drinking some pretty sterile wine. I know that sounds harsh, but it is a fact.

Covert, my nose is quite good when it comes to TCA. Not as good as Sue. I often serve as quality control at a large wine options competition, tasting about 180 bottle in the 3 hours that it takes. Most these days are screwcapped, but I taste them all. I have actually found 1 corked screwcaped bottle. Probably from a tainted barrel.

Neil I don't want to be unkind, but your pronouncement really surprised me and I couldn't let it just lie there. Like I said to David, I will assemble some evidence and present it. TCA on a cork is so glaring and obvious to me, and my wife, that I am sure that it also is to many other connoisseurs. I have detected every single corked wine we have had over the last few years by first smelling the cork, and had the observation confirmed next in the glass. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that TCA is evident on corks. (So is cooked and oxidized wine.) The odds that my wife and I are the only two people in the world that can do this, or that we are hallucinating, is much less probable. What is really, really confusing to me is how nobody (unless someone did and I haven't seen it yet) on this supposedly wine oriented forum would come forward and confirm the certainty of it. It is almost assuredly the Emperor has no clothes phenomenon. Thanks for letting David know that you are easily man enough to tell me to go to hell yourself if you wanted to, and you don't need him to act as your big brother; but I think you knew that I was being adamant about what I feel is a fact and important to know, especially for so-called wine lovers, rather than trying to offend you. He feels so protective toward you.

Why sniff the cork?

The passing the cork ritual originated to let the customer check the cork matched the wine and wasn't plonk under a false label.

If the cork is pulled then taste the wine. Its the wine that matters.

I agree with Peter, the ritual of opening the bottle of wine and passing the cork to the customer originated so that the customer could confirm that was what he/she ordered. But by quickly looking at the cork, squeezing it, possible even smelling it one could make a judgment call on how well the cork “held up”.

Salute

One of my favorite wine merchants used to cut open the top of the capsule and smell the cork for TCA while it was still in the bottle. I was a big fan of this procedure because it took some of the TCA worry away before I even got the bottles home. But folks on these wine boards were not impressed with the technique. They claimed that it could either miss TCA that was in the bottom of the cork or identify TCA that was in the top of the cork but had not infected the wine.

I don't know about the chemistry/physics of those two claims, but if they are correct then smelling the cork to find TCA would seem to be a very imperfect way of determining whether the wine is infected with TCA.

I've had corks that smelled corky but the wine was fine, I've had corks where I didn't notice TCA where wine was clearly tainted. Smelling corks is not as effective as smelling the wine imho.

I often frequent http://www.winepress.us a site for wine makers and grape growers, similar to here. One of the folks there started a thread of the same title, but his post was a review of a book titled "To Cork or Not To Cork". Steve Kroll's review is:

On a whim I recently ordered a book called "To Cork or Not to Cork" from Amazon.com. The book, written by George Taber (author of "The Judgment of Paris"), is all about the history and science of cork as a sealer of wine bottles.

While that sounds like it might be a dull topic, I was really surprised at how much of a page turner I found it to be. Taber presents all sorts of history and interesting facts about everyone's favorite closure. One example is the origin of the word "butler." The word comes from the Anglo-French "butuiller," which means "bottler," and was the title carried by a medieval household's wine steward. It was this individual's job to retrieve the wine for the evening meal. Since wine in those days was sold in the not-so-convenient cask size, the bottler would go to the cellar and fill bottles from the cask to bring to the table.

I highly recommend this book if you haven't read it.

I plan on buying the book, but will wait a week or so, when my cousin's new mystery novel is available and I'll be able to get free shipping on both.

Taber's book is well worth reading.
I gained a lot of insight into corking

I think that smelling the cork is the worst indicator of what's in the bottle. I don't think I've ever smelled a cork that introduced me to what the wine was about.

Drew

I've had corks that smelled corky but the wine was fine, I've had corks where I didn't notice TCA where wine was clearly tainted. Smelling corks is not as effective as smelling the wine imho.

+1.

It is my understanding that TCA transfer to a wine happens if there is spoilage in the part of the cork very near the wine. I do not have a study to support this idea, but I will check to see if such a study has been done.

[James Roscoe]

I am surprised no one has raised the possibility of using the glass stoppers in nicer wines. They seem to be a good comprimise between cork and screw tops. It's nice to see this debate roiling along again Well-done Ron!

I'm all for looking at the cork to see whether it's soaked through. Even that, however, may or may not tell you whether a wine has oxidized. Takes a whiff of the wine itself.

As to "sniffing" corks....with apologies to those who do it, I see no purpose whatever to this habit. Many a stinky cork will reveal a fresh wine; many a fresh cork will reveal a stinky wine.

[Jenise]

Sorry Folks,
Since I was the one to start this thread, if everyone feels it should be closed, then thats what should happen.
I will try to some more in depth searching of topics before posting. I thought I did for this subject and didnt find anything.
My apologies

No apology needed, you didn't do anything wrong. Daniel's complaints aside, we all love these topics and are happy to rehash them again and again.

[Jenise]

I've had corks that smelled corky but the wine was fine, I've had corks where I didn't notice TCA where wine was clearly tainted.

But I'm guessing you would also say that you've smelled TCA on corks whose wine turned out to be heavily affected, as expected, and the purpose of your sentence was only to address the fact that you've experienced exceptions? If so, then I agree with you. I've picked up TCA on a lot of corks. Haven't smelled TCA on a cork where the wine wasn't infected as you have, but I don't doubt that it's possible.

Btw, just a general comment to all: in a restaurant situation I love getting the cork. Whether or not it's neccessary (I wouldn't send a bottle back until I'd also tasted the wine), it's a ritual I appreciate and enjoy. Especially if it's a very old, saturated cork--love, just love, that aroma.

As to "sniffing" corks....with apologies to those who do it, I see no purpose whatever to this habit. Many a stinky cork will reveal a fresh wine; many a fresh cork will reveal a stinky wine.

I agree that sniffing is insufficient. In addition, after receiving the cork you must not only sniff it, but you must also put the cork into your mouth and swish it around for at least 5 seconds before making a determination as to acceptability of the wine.

But I'm guessing you would also say that you've smelled TCA on corks whose wine turned out to be heavily affected, as expected, and the purpose of your sentence was only to address the fact that you've experienced exceptions?

Yes, sorry, I just meant that smelling the wine is pretty definitive (at least to degree that I have perception). and smelling cork can sometimes lead to false negatives as well as false positives (less common, but I've had it happen).

As to "sniffing" corks....with apologies to those who do it, I see no purpose whatever to this habit. Many a stinky cork will reveal a fresh wine; many a fresh cork will reveal a stinky wine.

It looks cool and impresses the Chicks. That's why I do it.

...It looks cool and impresses the Chicks. That's why I do it.

You dine with chickens?

As to "sniffing" corks....with apologies to those who do it, I see no purpose whatever to this habit. Many a stinky cork will reveal a fresh wine; many a fresh cork will reveal a stinky wine.

I agree that sniffing is insufficient. In addition, after receiving the cork you must not only sniff it, but you must also put the cork into your mouth and swish it around for at least 5 seconds before making a determination as to acceptability of the wine.

Now that would be interesting to try!

Ron, indeed, don't worry about what has gone on here in this thread. It was to be expected that debate would be vigorous, yay and nay, when we get to talking about TCA, corks and the rest of it. Often corks will get a thread all to themselves. There are as many corkophiles here there are screwcap proponents. It has happened in the past and will happen again in the future, I am sure.

If you want to see something else take off into the stratosphere, start a thread that says "I think Robert Parker is the dogs danglies" and see what response you get!

Danglies?

Danglies?

Hmm, must be Kiwi slang. Bollocks might be normal English (UK and/or US) term.