WTN: On The Ineluctible Gravitational Pull of Burgundy

Alex,
I don't think that anyone here has disputed your opinion that there are lots of affordable attractive Bordeaux available to you. We're just pointing out that there are not so many available here (I actually buy a fair amount of Cotes de Castillon- a'Aiguilhe, Cap de Faugeres, occasionally Pitray or Rocher Bellevue, the only Cotes de Francs I have bought more than once is La Prade).

I just don't get the idea that it's all the importers' fault. I can't see any reason why there are importers searching out the best of comparatively obscure areas (Minervois, Madiran, Jura, Savoie, etc) yet you claim they ignore all of these wonderful Bordeaux (comparatively low lying fruit, as easier transport, etc). It seems to me there must be some kind of systemic issue, it's not like 500 wine importers all got together and said "let ignore Bordeaux except classified growths."

I do know that when they formed the Plan Bordeaux, the chief resigned, citing the lack of cooperation and willingness to change of the growers and growers associations, not the perfidious importers! I remember some interviews with Bordeaux growers, I found their intransigence amzing, "well my dad always was just able to sell everything he made without worrying about quality, why should I? "

Dale,

As for the first comment, fair enough, we all agree.

The reason I say the importers don't look into Bordeaux as they should is because the name "Bordeaux" = great growths in the minds of many American consumers. In other words, it is so much easier to say, "Here's a great little Minervois, Madiran, Jura, Savoie, etc." i.e. from regions people don't know. Esoteric, cool, and so much the better if the wine is not only inexpensive, but also good. But one has difficulty imagining a "great little Bordeaux" being presented the same way because people *know* Bordeaux...or think they do. Although it shouldn't be, "discovering" Bordeaux seems paradoxical to many, because it has already been discovered!!! They are not prepared to try petits châteaux they don't know, and if there's no (perceived) demand, importers concentrate on other types of wines...
I assume that Parker's book on Bordeaux is the leading reference book in the States, and his Wine Advocate surely has the greatest influence of any periodical. Sure, people are willing to buy heretofore unheard of wines touched by His grace, but He rarely ventures into wines in the price bracket that has been discussed (I know, and if he did they would no longer be in that bracket...).
Importers/Distributers/Retailers are looking for wine that is pre-sold thanks to favorable media coverage or one with a marketing budget. Bordeaux's huge handicap is to the flip-side of its success: the association with châteaux, which necessarily limits distributon (Mouton Cadet is an obvious exception).

People like Kermit Lynch are totally atypical of the wine trade. They travel, taste, bring in, and get behind wines. It can work, but it is not the easy way that importers prefer.
American importers are often lazy when it comes to Bordeaux in that they don't often get out to the wine country and go off the beaten path.
The en primeur tastings are in late March. There will be a ton of Americans there to taste the 2009 grands crus.
But only a few of them will go anywhere other than the famous châteaux.
If the don't know the petits châteaux, and don't leave the time/make the effort to discover them, how can you expect them to import any?
It's the formula "Bordeaux=Great Growths" that seems to wine out every time...

Let me ask YOU this: you kind of acknowledge that there are good quality affordable Bordeaux wines. It's a question of logic: if you don't buy my explanation of why these wines are not found in the US, what's yours please?

As for the attitude of the Bordelais, in the same way that there is a persistent confusion between great growths and the rest of Bordeaux, and good wines and the drivel some lazy importers bring in, there are also Bordelais and Bordelais... Yes, there are some incredibly smug people among the famous châteaux. But once you leave that exalted sphere, things change dramatically. The attitude you describe does not really exist among the producers of affordable wines.

All the best,
Alex

Speaking of Burgundy...in today's Washington Post (note: no relation to the author, we just share a similar name)

Wine: Lesser Burgundy, greater opportunity

By Dave McIntyre
Wednesday, February 17, 2010

The 2005 and 2006 vintages of red Burgundy demonstrate why we should not rely blindly on vintage charts -- and how we can exploit them to our advantage.

The vintage chart for Robert Parker's Wine Advocate, arguably the most influential wine publication on the planet, gives 2005 a score of 98 out of 100 for the Cote de Nuits and 96 for the Cote de Beaune, the two major regions of Burgundy. Both scores count as "extraordinary" on Parker's scale and are annotated as "still tannic, youthful, or slow to mature." In 2006, on the other hand, those regions scored 88 and 82 points, respectively, or "above average to excellent," with the caveat that the vintage is "irregular, even among the best wines."

So which vintage would you buy? For drinking now, I vote for the 2006. Though 2006 might not rank as a "vintage of the century," the more successful of its Burgundies are drinking quite nicely, thank you very much. They will provide plenty of pinot noir enjoyment over the next few years while the 2005s mature safely in our temperature-controlled Eurocaves. And if you're not a collector, so-called inferior vintages such as 2006 often provide an opportunity to seek out wines from top producers at comparatively favorable prices.

(As always with Burgundy, value is relative. Because the 2006s are so overshadowed by the previous vintage, there has been some downward pressure on price. That pressure has been magnified by the economic downturn, even as the dollar has remained low against the euro.)

What made 2006 so questionable in the market's eyes? In a word, rain. A favorable growing season turned cool and rainy in August, diluting the grapes just as they were ripening and creating a danger of rot. The weather recovered in September, and patient growers who waited to the end of that month to begin the harvest were able to ripen their grapes. But they still were forced to drop a lot of bunches on the ground and perform some ruthless sorting of the grapes at harvest. Growers who the necessary steps were able to make some excellent wines, though without the power and concentration of the 2005s. Their efforts made 2006 "a very good to sometimes excellent but highly variable vintage," in the words of Allen Meadows, publisher of the influential Burghound newsletter.

Vintages such as 2006 are popular with sommeliers because they offer wines that do not require extensive cellaring. Sommeliers also tend to be familiar with the better producers and importers, so they can cherry-pick the high-quality wines.

"I like the 2006 Burgundies because I can put them on the list right now and serve them at dinner tonight," said Kathy Morgan, chief sommelier at Michel Richard Citronelle.

"People who read the vintage charts will ask for the '05s, but I don't have them on the list because those wines aren't ready; they're 10-year wines," Morgan said. "Of course, I have them in the cellar and can go get them."

So don't throw out your vintage charts, but don't use them as a crutch for your wine purchases, either. As Parker writes in the fine print on his chart, there are always exceptions, such as "astonishingly good wines from skillful or lucky vintners in years rated mediocre, and thin, diluted, characterless wines from incompetent or greedy producers in great years." The trick is in finding the gems and avoiding the fool's gold.

McIntyre can be reached at food@washpost.com.


Dave McIntyre's recommended 2006 Burgundies

Some of these wines are not widely available at retail (though prices listed are approximate retail prices). That's because the reputation of the 2006 vintage, the current economic climate and consumer unwillingness to splurge on wine make retailers shy about stocking them. But if they fit your budget, they will reward your investment. And look for them on restaurant wine lists, where they might be relatively moderately priced and ideal for immediate enjoyment.
This Story


Domaine Michel Gros Chambolle Musigny 2006
***
Burgundy, France, $56

Gorgeous floral aromas waft from the glass, so that one may be reluctant even to taste the wine. And don't hurry: The wine develops sip after sip, with near-perfect balance and silky texture cosseting delicious pinot noir flavors.

Ansonia Wines: available in the District at Ansonia Wines.

Domaine Daniel Bocquenet Nuits-St.-George "Aux-St.-Julien" 2006
**1/2
Burgundy, France, $45

A hefty wine emphasizing dark-fruit flavors with a stony, mineral edge and hints of clove and allspice.

Dionysus: available in the District at Whole Foods Market P Street; on the list at Corduroy, Restaurant Nora. Available in Virginia at Arrowine in Arlington, Whole Foods Market locations in Alexandria and Vienna.

Domaine Michel Lafarge Volnay 2006
**1/2
Burgundy, France, $55

It's textbook Volnay, with a silky texture and pristine and fleshy fruit wrapped around a mineral backbone. New to the D.C. area market.

Wasserman/C'est Vin: on the list in the District at Corduroy.

Earl Roger Belland Santenay-Beauregard Premier Cru 2006
**
Burgundy, France, $33

This wine started out awkward, as if it didn't expect to be poured for another few years. But after stretching in the glass, it unfurled earthy, exotic flavors and a lively, almost sweet finish.

Ansonia Wines: available in the District at Ansonia Wines; on the list at CityZen, Sou'Wester.

Domaine Michel et Joanna Ecard Savigny-les-Beaune 1er Cru "Les Gravains" 2006
**
Burgundy, France, $40

Tight and focused, this wine doesn't jump up and down demanding your attention until it grabs hold of your palate and refuses to let go.

Dionysus: on the list in the District at Corduroy and Palena. Available in Maryland at Balducci's in Bethesda, Iron Bridge Wine Co. in Columbia. Available in Virginia at Arrowine in Arlington, Balducci's locations in McLean and Alexandria, Whole Foods Market Alexandria.

Domaine Nicolas Rossignol Bourgogne 2006
**
Burgundy, France, $25

An "off" vintage such as 2006 might lead consumers away from a regional wine such as this Bourgogne, but Rossignol did a super job of blending good-quality fruit to produce a spicy and aromatic pinot noir.

Elite Wines: on the list in the District at Johnny's Half Shell, Poste Moderne Brasserie, Posto, Urbana. Available in Virginia at Au Domaine in Alexandria; on the list at 2941.

Louis Latour Chassagne-Montrachet 2006
**
Burgundy, France, $25

From one of the leading negociant houses of Burgundy, this went from closed and earthy when opened to spicy-citrus about two hours later, then back again. During its citrusy phase, it was exotic and unusual. I found it compelling, though others might not.

M Touton Selections: available in the District at Paul's of Chevy Chase, Magruder's. Available in Maryland at Bethesda Chevy Chase Beer and Wine in Bethesda, Silesia Liquors in Fort Washington; on the list at the Capital Grille and La Ferme in Chevy Chase.

Key

*** Exceptional ** Excellent * Very Good

I agree pretty much with what he's saying in the article, and there are some wines listed I'd love to try.

My problem is I don't know what his pricing is all about here.

When he lists the price for the wine, what's he listing? Wholesale, suggested retail, wine list?

He cites both retail and restaurant wine lists for the same wine----and I know you can't pay retail in restaurants (much as I'd like that very thing ).

So some of the prices look pretty good; however, some of them are outside my price range even if they are "relative bargains for Burgundy."

I will agree to the assertion that you can find decent drinking Burgs---those Burgs that are reasonably priced but still contain and exhibit some of that magical quality that makes them Burgs---at decent prices. My former favorite shop (in Santa Rosa, Sonoma, before I moved to Oregon) had plenty available, and I was rarely steered wrong by the buyer there. And we're talking $25 or less.

... it is so much easier to say, "Here's a great little Minervois, Madiran, Jura, Savoie, etc." i.e. from regions people don't know. Esoteric, cool, and so much the better if the wine is not only inexpensive, but also good. But one has difficulty imagining a "great little Bordeaux" being presented the same way because people *know* Bordeaux...or think they do....

Alex, I totally agree with you here.
It is so much easier being an importer of the cool and hip than something as tired and traditional as POB (Plain Old Bordeaux). It lacks the cachet of cru Beaujolais, or vines grown on Mount Etna, or godello buried under the ocean. It is so much easier to sell a wine from a space that you (speaking of the importer, here) have made in an area that has few players in (Speaking of an extreme example here, think of Sella in Lessona - the only winery in that appelation) than in an area that has hundreds of producers.

Speaking of Burgundy...in today's Washington Post (note: no relation to the author, we just share a similar name)


Domaine Michel Lafarge Volnay 2006
**1/2
Burgundy, France, $55

It's textbook Volnay, with a silky texture and pristine and fleshy fruit wrapped around a mineral backbone. New to the D.C. area market.

New to DC? Since when? That's where I purchased some 1999 Lafarge's from.

The attitude you describe does not really exist among the producers of affordable wines.

I assure you the producer in article I read was someone demanding subsidies as he wasn't selling out of his 8-10 euro wine.

I agree part of the problem is ease of sales, but I attribute that to the large quantities of plonk sent over for years with the expectation it would sell because it's Bordeaux. Bourgogne AC (and Burgundy is just as defined by it's top wines as Bordeaux) and Cotes du Rhone sell much better here than Bordeaux, because people have found them more dependable. I tried to find the article I mentioned, I couldn't, but did find various comments from US consumers that "at $12 Bordeaux is the last place I'd look." That's based on experience.

My problem is I don't know what his pricing is all about here.

Look like full retail, agree it should be clearer

I will agree to the assertion that you can find decent drinking Burgs---those Burgs that are reasonably priced but still contain and exhibit some of that magical quality that makes them Burgs---at decent prices. My former favorite shop (in Santa Rosa, Sonoma, before I moved to Oregon) had plenty available, and I was rarely steered wrong by the buyer there. And we're talking $25 or less.

Agreed. I can usually find Bourgogne AC from the likes of Lafarge, Bachelet, Meo-C, Chevillon, Gouges, Marcehal, etc, Marsannay from Bart, Savigny from Pavelot, etc at under $25, and be very happy. Sometimes it's harder to stay under $25 with hyped vintages, but even then.

Speaking only as a consumer of wine, I can only say that I very seldom buy inexpensive bordeaux because I have been disappointed too many times. It annoys me to buy wine, store it for years and then open it to disappointment. And seeing I cannot afford much classified bordeaux, what this means in real life is I don't drink much bordeaux. I do agree that I have had some great bordeaux but I do not want to spend my limited funds and use my limited storage space gambling. Perhaps there are others like me and that discourages importers. On the other hand, I have found that burgundy is less of a crap shoot. Not that I always win at that, but I have seldom been as disappointed as I have been with bordeaux. I do not have any way to judge what is available to those living where the wine is produced, only what shows up on the shelves of my local stores. These are just my uneducated impressions, not meaning any offense to anyone.

Glenn

It lacks the cachet of cru Beaujolais...

???

Cachet? I thought it was difficult to sell Beaujolais of any kind to all but the few devoted fans precisely because of its negative stigma. Here and in France. I would have thought it much easier to move Basic Bordeaux to Average Consumers.

It lacks the cachet of cru Beaujolais...

???

Cachet? I thought it was difficult to sell Beaujolais of any kind to all but the few devoted fans precisely because of its negative stigma. Here and in France. I would have thought it much easier to move Basic Bordeaux to Average Consumers.

Well, to read the wine boreds, you would think everyone and his mother buys and drinks nothing but cru Beaujolais, stores a decades-worth of Muscadet in the cellar, and has cases of Vatan at the ready. Or maybe I'm only thinking of the coastal cities that dictate tastes to the rest of the nation?

It lacks the cachet of cru Beaujolais...

???

Cachet? I thought it was difficult to sell Beaujolais of any kind to all but the few devoted fans precisely because of its negative stigma. Here and in France. I would have thought it much easier to move Basic Bordeaux to Average Consumers.

Well, to read the wine boreds, you would think everyone and his mother buys and drinks nothing but cru Beaujolais, stores a decades-worth of Muscadet in the cellar, and has cases of Vatan at the ready. Or maybe I'm only thinking of the coastal cities that dictate tastes to the rest of the nation?

You need to get out more, Mark That's kind of like saying that "Jules et Jim" is a more popular movie than Avatar because the NYT gives it a far more favorable review.

Mark Lipton

Well, to read the wine boreds, you would think everyone and his mother buys and drinks nothing but cru Beaujolais, stores a decades-worth of Muscadet in the cellar, and has cases of Vatan at the ready

I don't think anyone one these boards claims to represent anything beyond their own quirky perspective!

Of course, I jest, but Mr. Lipton is indeed correct: I Do need to get out more and vacation time is too far away (looking at the calendar)...

Dale,

>>> Bourgogne AC (and Burgundy is just as defined by it's top wines as Bordeaux) and Cotes du Rhone sell much better here than Bordeaux, because people have found them more dependable.

I'm sceptical here, especially with regard to Burgundy. Do you have any figures?

Also, please don't overlook the fact that there are 57 appellations in Bordeaux. I have granted that Bx and Bx Sup are a mixed bag. But it is just plain wrong to include the other 50-odd that don't belong there!

If there's a crap selection of non-cru-classé Bordeaux in the US, I'm sorry for you, but please don't draw the wrong conclusions about affordable Bordeaux in general. It has mostly to do what makes its way to the other side of the ocean.

I have said in this thread that I would like to get to know Burgundy better, as much of a minefield as it is. When those wines are good, they are wonderful!
But please, cheap Burgundy unquestionably pales in comparison to its Bordeaux counterpart (not the case for Côtes du Rhône, as I have said above)!!! God, how disappointed I was on my recent trip to Burgundy nearly every time I tried a modestly-priced wine. Thin, acid, uninteresting and overpriced!
Please gimme a break! Glenn finds "Burgundy is less of a crap shoot"! But Burgundies are notoriously variable – which, to some, is part of their charm…

Glenn,
You wrote
>>>It annoys me to buy wine, store it for years and then open it to disappointment

But the whole point is not to store it for years. Sheesh...............................

Best regards,
Alex

I'm sceptical here, especially with regard to Burgundy. Do you have any figures?

Well, as Rahsaan says, we're all speaking from our quirky perspectives, and in the wine stores I frequent there is more display space devoted to under $25 Rhones or Burgs than Bordeaux. I tend to get more offers for Burg than lower end Bdx, so I extrapolate. Maybe someone in the business can come up with figures.
I'd also add that in mid to upscale NYC restaurants it's pretty unusual not to have 1 to 3 lower end Burgs on the list, and pretty unusual to have more than one lower end Bordeaux (and not at all unusual to have none except classified growths)

But the whole point is not to store it for years. Sheesh...

Well, here's a problem. There are very few Bordeaux, even Cotes de Castillon or Cotes du Bourg,that I like as much on release as much as I like with a little time. In general young Merlot or CS is unappealing to me. I'll occasionally have a young Bordeaux with steak, but that's about it. So I understand Glenn's issues.

One problem for Bordeaux is probably the lack of well made negociant wines in the low end. I'd MUCH rather drink a Jadot, Drouhin, or Potel
Bourgogne or lesser village wine than a Mouton Cadet or Yvon Mau Bordeaux.

Please... I am really not trying to aggravate anyone. I am specifically not saying there aren't lots of good inexpensive bordeaux out there. I am just relating my personal experience. Assuming there are these inexpensive bordeaux, I have simply not been lucky enough to find them And also assuming there are lots of bordeaux that were good to drink young... I have not been lucky enough to find those either at my local stores. And I agree that burgundy is supposedly variable but I can go the local supermarket (food emporium) less that a mile from my home any evening and pick up a bottle of $20 Jadot Burgundy and while not great, it's certainly acceptable for dinner. Again, I'm not trying to say what is out there... what I am relating is not truth in the real sense... but simply what is readily available to an average consumer in my part of the US.

Glenn

[David M. Bueker]

Well, to read the wine boreds, you would think everyone and his mother buys and drinks nothing but cru Beaujolais, stores a decades-worth of Muscadet in the cellar, and has cases of Vatan at the ready

I don't think anyone one these boards claims to represent anything beyond their own quirky perspective!

You are reading the wrong boards.

... it is so much easier to say, "Here's a great little Minervois, Madiran, Jura, Savoie, etc." i.e. from regions people don't know. Esoteric, cool, and so much the better if the wine is not only inexpensive, but also good. But one has difficulty imagining a "great little Bordeaux" being presented the same way because people *know* Bordeaux...or think they do....

Alex, I totally agree with you here.
It is so much easier being an importer of the cool and hip than something as tired and traditional as POB (Plain Old Bordeaux). It lacks the cachet of cru Beaujolais, or vines grown on Mount Etna, or godello buried under the ocean. It is so much easier to sell a wine from a space that you (speaking of the importer, here) have made in an area that has few players in (Speaking of an extreme example here, think of Sella in Lessona - the only winery in that appelation) than in an area that has hundreds of producers.

Mark, echoing Rahsaan and Herr Doktor Professor Lipton here...

As an ITBer in virtually every aspect of the B for the last thirty odd years, I can say your post provided me with quite a few chuckles. Easier to be an importer of Cru BoJo and godello??? Oh yeah, sure, uh huh, right.

Speaking as a guy who has A) sat in the buyer's seat, B) sat in the seller's seat that is so far from the gritty reality of ITB as possible.

Any buyer who buys Beaujolais has to factor in the absolute certainty that a large perentage of what he/she buys will have to be remaindered out in the close-out bin or sold at a blow-out sale. No one, besides Georges DuBouef, gets rich in BoJo. Those are not easy wines to sell...either to importers, to distributors, to retailers, to restaurateurs, or to 99% of the consumers. Word. Don't mistake people on this board....er, forum (old joke)...for anthing anywhere close to an average consumer.

I don't think anyone one these boards claims to represent anything beyond their own quirky perspective!

You are reading the wrong boards.

I think I am reading the right boards!

[David M. Bueker]

I don't think anyone one these boards claims to represent anything beyond their own quirky perspective!

You are reading the wrong boards.

I think I am reading the right boards!

My point exactly.

Dale,

Thanks for your last post.

Not knowing much about négociant Burgundy, I nevertheless agree with your comment:
"One problem for Bordeaux is probably the lack of well made negociant wines in the low end".

The Holy Grail here is a wine made/blended by either a cooperative cellar or (more likely) a négociant firm that fits in with what modern consumers want: reliable from one vintage to the next, fruity, round, up-front, on the rich side if possible, and with even pricing.
But, even if such quality were attained, and a check kept on price increases, there is the issue of marketing and promotional budget...
Above and beyond quality and price, challenges posed by distribution are a key issue here.

Imagine trying to "attack" the US market with a dynamite, reasonably or even low-priced wine.
Not an easy thing by any means...

Some individual estates can (mostly) reach the above-mentioned quality criteria, but in the modest appellations they rarely get the recognition or the price they deserve. It's a vicious circle in a way because, as we all know, making good wine is expensive: lower yields, barrel aging, etc.
So, logically speaking, there needs to be an incentive to the winegrower, who has to be able to incorporate that added expense into the sales price.
Squaring the circle...

Look at Champagne: this means a "grande marque" to most consumers and the product is semi-industrial.
But many people, by word of mouth or some other means, discover a small grower who does good work (possibly better than the gande marque) and the price is right too.
It's all a question of zeroing in on the right product at the right price.
But, of course, you need to be able to have access to the wines in the first place!
Good affordable Bordeaux, I've been told amply on this thread, is hard to come by in the US.
It's easier here though, and that applies not just to Bordeaux.
For example, let's say I would like to add some Chinon or Bougueil to my cellar. Not knowing that region very well, I might consult the Guide Hachette and make a choice (generally in the 2-star category). I simply telephone the grower, wait for his price list, send a check, and the wine is delivered to my door a few days later.
As you said above, different perspectives for different realities...

Getting back to the thread, one of the difficulties with this discussion is trying to compare Merlot-based wines with Pinot-based wines with wines from other grape varieties from other regions.
It's more of an intellectual exercise and/or a question of individual taste, really.

All the best,
Alex

Dale,


For example, let's say I would like to add some Chinon or Bougueil to my cellar. Not knowing that region very well, I might consult the Guide Hachette and make a choice (generally in the 2-star category). I simply telephone the grower, wait for his price list, send a check, and the wine is delivered to my door a few days later.

Oner of the sad things about the European so-called "single market" is that it is still not an economic proposition for me in Belgium to do the same except for large quantities or high value wines. As soon as an internal frontier is crossed freight rates double or triple .

From the Washington Post article: "So which vintage would you buy? For drinking now, I vote for the 2006. Though 2006 might not rank as a "vintage of the century," the more successful of its Burgundies are drinking quite nicely, thank you very much. They will provide plenty of pinot noir enjoyment over the next few years while the 2005s mature safely in our temperature-controlled Eurocaves. And if you're not a collector, so-called inferior vintages such as 2006 often provide an opportunity to seek out wines from top producers at comparatively favorable prices."

I checked my "wine cellar" last night and the Burgundies I have are 2005 (completely unplanned on my part). Looks like I should keep these for a bit and buy some 2006 to enjoy now.

Dave

[David M. Bueker]

The favorable pricing on 2006 Burgundy is a myth.