Open Mike: Cahors, the original Malbec.

Looks like I may have to open my `05 Lamartine for scientific research !!
I am struggling with the weather here and a very bad cold but guess what the heck!

Checking back I found this note from Jenise who posted the other day....>

But heck, didn't have any particular plans last night so I bought and opened this new wine to go with dinner, and it was a 2007 Clos La Coutale. I liked it a lot better than Bob did; in fact I was quite impressed. Medium bodied, maroon color, dark berry and black cherry fruit, a little violets on the nose along with some dust--I would guess this has the full load of merlot in it--some savory character, good minerality, stylish but in the traditional sense and nothing OTT, very balanced, good mouthfeel and finish, no babyfat whatsoever, no pesky oak flavors, no flaws. This wine is, in fact, just about as much elegance and satisfaction as a Bordeaux lover can have in a new release, off the shelf, $13 wine. If I needed more everyday wine (the adjective 'everyday' applies to it's cost, not it's taste, this wine outperforms it's price), I'd go back for a case.

A good note, and I agree a good everyday wine but this wine did not fulfill my Cahors cravings!

As it happens, we went to our favourite local eatery on Saturday and to go with the excellent glazed roast Mallard that was on their top menu, I chose a half (well, there were only two of us and we had to have some white to drink as an apéritif, to go with the entrée (lobster, monkfish and foie gras salad) and with the fish course (seared baby scallops) ) bottle of the Ch la Pineraie 2005. As it was a baby, I asked the waiter if he wouldn't mind double decanting it, but in fact when we came back he was bearing their last remaining half of 2003 in triumph. So I asked him merely to decant once it into a bottle decanter - right at the beginning of the meal while we were enjoying our pre-prandial nibbles of creamed leek "samosas" and baby gougères.

An hour later, when we had got to the duck, the wine was just perfect. And this was from the ordinary cuvée - they didn't have halves of the "Cuvée Authentique" - and from 2003 which was the heatwave year, where the wines were somewhat low in tannins. Menthol and eucalyptus on the nose, which carried through into the mouth. Good fruit into which the tannins had softened beautifully and the wine complemented the Mallard to perfection. I had hesitated long and hard between this and a "Chateau de Mont-Redon" Côte-duRhône" but was glad I chose this.

As I said earlier, and as Tim confirmed, I am convinced that Cahors growers have a real dilemma. Do they seek to make wines that will sell well to ignorant consumers unprepared to age it as it deserves, or do they make it as good as they know how, and try to educate the public into the need to age it as long as good Bordeaux?

Ian
From what I've tasted, the answer is an easy one, as it seems pretty hard to make an approachable easy-going, yet interesting wine there! However when the basic traditional wines are capable of real charm with age, it's clear to me that they need to be marketing them as great value 'cellar-builders' - perhaps making a statement via aged 'museum' release programmes.

regards

Ian

Ian
From what I've tasted, the answer is an easy one, as it seems pretty hard to make an approachable easy-going, yet interesting wine there! However when the basic traditional wines are capable of real charm with age, it's clear to me that they need to be marketing them as great value 'cellar-builders' - perhaps making a statement via aged 'museum' release programmes.

regards

Ian

I agree, Ian, that a "museum" release programme is an interesting idea for persuading the world that Cahors produces "great" wine, provided that enough bottles capable of living up to the marketing hype can be found in commercial quantities (no more than a few hundred for niche wines). Critics with market credibility would need to award high points and Parker's oral statement that "Malbec in France is a disaster" is not helpful here.

In my experience, "approachable....yet interesting wine" does exist young and quite cheap in Cahors (see my note above on Solis and Croze de Pys). Note, however, that I have left out "easy-going" which is not part of the Cahors character which has a touch of welcome (to me) rigour. I see a good future for such wines amongst people who relish, for example, good Loire and Côtes du Rhône Villages reds. These are not wines for the mass of sweet toothed customers in North Europe's and America's supermarkets and chains.

Tim
Yes Parker's stupid little quip doesn't help, but perhaps says more about him than it does Malbec in France.

My experience with Museum releases is perhaps influenced by Australia and the likes of Tahbilk Marsanne, Houghton HWB, Mt Pleasant Elizabeth and a few rieslings. All of them moderate to cheap wines - perhaps the equivalent of the standard Ch Lamartine Cahors or at most the Cuvee Particuliere. All though, do improve in the cellar (The HWB being a repeating miracle as

There are also museum releases of more expensive wines, but it was the more basic cuvees that had sparked the thought. Here am I talking very positively about the 2000 Ch Lamartine - which if re-released by the winery at (say) 8 years old, could really change how people think about Cahors, yet also be sold at a price that would have potentially wide appeal.

FWIW I see a 'fair' museum price for a €10 on release being around €20 on re-release 8 years later. I'd also take the approach of Houghton which AFAIK is done as a show reserve release, with only very good years being held back.

regards

Ian

I was searching about Lamartine 2005 and I note the alcohol level is 13,5%, so is a completely different expectation from the 2002 or other low alcohol level vintage... so is not fare do a vertical taste for that... one vintage one wine... but I stay confuse when they change so much the vilification style... seems to me that experience is not enough... always!

Marcelo
I just checked my halves of the 2000 vintage - and they're 12.5%. I guess I'm slightly surprised as I wouldn't have thought the vintages were that different. Maybe they're looking for more ripeness like so many wineries these days?
regards
Ian

There are also museum releases of more expensive wines, but it was the more basic cuvees that had sparked the thought. Here am I talking very positively about the 2000 Ch Lamartine - which if re-released by the winery at (say) 8 years old, could really change how people think about Cahors, yet also be sold at a price that would have potentially wide appeal.

FWIW I see a 'fair' museum price for a €10 on release being around €20 on re-release 8 years later. I'd also take the approach of Houghton which AFAIK is done as a show reserve release, with only very good years being held back.

regards

Ian

Ian, I believe that Clos Triguedina have some old vintages but don't list them on their website. I guess, however, that they cost a lot more than €20. Prince Probus certainly needs the age because, for me, it is too oaky young. I think that big oak is one of the ways Cahors producers try to make their top wines acceptable when young; it may work for some consumers but I hate that dry caramel after-taste. The Probus 95 had just about absorbed it after 12 years.

Of course, producers need the cash flow and don't like holding back cuvées for more age but I think it would be a wise investment if a coordinated effort were made to do this by ten + of the best producers. The carrying out could take time to develop as sufficient stocks of past vintages may not exist.

Quite often, when French producers list older vintages for cellar door sales, these are cuvées which they couldn't sell when younger, so caution is required. Unlisted bottles of older vintages kept back for the family are a better bet and can sometimes be extracted in two and threes if one passes the vigneron's idiosyncratic tests.

I was searching about Lamartine 2005 and I note the alcohol level is 13,5%, so is a completely different expectation from the 2002 or other low alcohol level vintage... so is not fare do a vertical taste for that... one vintage one wine... but I stay confuse when they change so much the vilification style... seems to me that experience is not enough... always!

I checked back on Tims post. His two bottles were 13%. Marcelo, I do not see what you are trying to get at?

Bob,
Just realizing that is no possible to compare two vintages with this kind of difference... and I'm trying to understand what is the common factor for this Lamartines? I like the 2002 and I don't no if this is enough to like other vintages...just thoughts...

regards

Just catching up on your discussions so far, sorry if I'm repeating things already posted.
With regards to Lamartine - had a bottle of Benjamin du Chateau Lamartine last night. 80% Malbec 20% Merlot.
Smooth warm and peppery with spicy cherries and perhaps surprising to some not kept in oak barrels but cement for 18 months.
The reason - because it's one of their cheapest wines available in my local supermarket for 4.20 euros. This would then be classified as Tradition.
When my wife and I first moved here we visited the Cahors Wine Institute we spoke to their oenologist who said his favourite chateau was Lamartine who he said seriously under price their wines.
There are about 200 chateaux in this region but have yet to visit them all!
As part of our business we visit regularly about 10 chateaux each week during our "tourist season" so therefore have favourites. But I am trying to broaden our visits to include more.
All the local supermarkets have perhaps 50 different Cahors wines ranging from 3 to 25 euros. But due to their labelling system it is very difficult to determine what the actual grape variety is. All Cahors have to be 70% Malbec but can then add Merlot or Tanat or all 3.
Normally it goes on price the dearer ones are normally 100% Malbec.
But I have found a really friendly small chateau Domaine de Chantelle who sell their best wine at the chateau for around 12 euros! Fabulous wine which we had with our xmas dinner.
Sorry if I am going on a bit - but not used to writing on a forum and also not used to describing in writing the taste of wine, I think doing this will definitely help me.
Will post some more during the week perhaps?

[Jenise]

Sorry if I am going on a bit - but not used to writing on a forum and also not used to describing in writing the taste of wine, I think doing this will definitely help me.
Will post some more during the week perhaps?

Hey, no apologies needed, you're providing some great content--we hope you DO post more. Welcome, John.

John
Indeed - thanks for that.
regards
Ian

John
Indeed - thanks for that.
regards
Ian

Seconded . Domaine de Chantelle is a new estate name for me. Where do you live, John?

Yeah, keep posting. There is a lot of Cahors interest here and on the UK board. I think we would love to hear what brings you to the area down there!

Here is some Chantelle info....>

http://www.vignobletiquette.com/comq/vin.php?prod=8917

Thanks for the encouragement – normally I do the techie stuff on our website and my wife does the actual prose.
We live 2 kms away from a small village called Dégagnac in the Lot (SW France) which is about 25km away from the river Lot where most of the vineyards are situated. We back onto a forest where we walk our dog and often see deer and occasionally wild boar.
We moved here 3 years ago from England to start a new business/life and to enjoy the food and wine.
Anyway just finished our evening meal and opened a bottle of Chateau Armandièr 2005.
I have had this before and remember really enjoying it, but have to say not impressed tonight. (I am GMT+1). I think last time my wife cooked and we had boeuf bourguignon with it, tonight as I cooked we had ham egg and chips/fries! It had a strong twang to it, so have saved the rest for another day. Their website says “a profusion of wild fruits, fleshy and fresh on the taste buds with a velvety finish”. Which is what I remembered from last time.
I remember visiting this chateau last summer – it is on the border of the lot and they were just deciding whether to start wine tasting with boat trips as it they have their own jetty. Really nice owner but very unimpressive chateau, cluttered untidy etc.
Incidentally when I mention chateau nearly all the Cahors chateaux are either modern functional buildings or old converted barns. Only one or two actually resemble typical picture postcard chateau. Take a look at Chateau Chambert for a good example of a mini chateau.
To answer your question about Chateau Chantelle they are the nicest couple we have met at any chateau. They are extremely proud of what they do and insist on giving you a complete tour of everything. In October we were lucky enough to be with them when they were picking their grapes. That’s a story on it’s own so perhaps another time.
Post some tomorrow maybe…

Well the extra discussion prompted me to crack open a 2000 Château Haut-Monplaisir Cahors Prestige. I tasted this at a merchants tasting in December (the one where we were greeted by a CSI style cop at the entrance the the building - a block of apartments, as they'd found a dead body in the basement earlier that day ). I picked up 4 bottles on the strength of that tasting and also how much I'd enjoyed the 2000 Lamartine.

TN to follow, but it's certainly dark, showing more impressively on the nose than the palate. I'll report back.

regards

Ian

I am going to have to dig out that Berangerie I purchased last year. Organic too.

TN as promised.

2000 Château Haut-Monplaisir Cahors Prestige - France, Southwest France, Cahors (1/27/2010)
Dense dark colour & no hint of age at the rim.
Firm brambly/blackberry led nose with just a hint of a more liquer-like quality on swirling.
On the palate, still pretty tight with quite grippy tannins and tangy acidity. There is good, still quite primary fruit there, but this feels somewhat tight at the moment. Needs a slab of meat at the moment, but I do think there is some potential here. Bury away for another 2-3 years before cracking another I reckon.

Ian sounds like a wine some of us (?!) might enjoy. Nothing "international" about this one eh.

Bob
Certainly not legoland/jellymould international! It will be interesting, having only drunk perhaps 1/3 of the bottle, what the remainder is like tonight. Might be a good match for some Lamb Noissetes, though being stuffed with Apricot & IIRC Pine-nuts, it might not be an ideal food match.
regards
Ian

opened a bottle of Chateau Armandièr 2005.
I have had this before and remember really enjoying it, but have to say not impressed tonight. (I am GMT+1). I think last time my wife cooked and we had boeuf bourguignon with it, tonight as I cooked we had ham egg and chips/fries! It had a strong twang to it, so have saved the rest for another day. Their website says “a profusion of wild fruits, fleshy and fresh on the taste buds with a velvety finish”. Which is what I remembered from last time.

John, eggs with Cahors don't strike me as a good match so I think that your fist impression is probably the right one with suitable food. In fact very few wines go well with eggs IMO. Pinot Gris from Alsace with a hint of sweetness and soft Grenache based reds are least bad, IMHO.

Yes I agree eggs are hard to match Cahors wine to. Should have had a glass of Rosé from Domaine du Chantelle.
Forgot to say, I only drink Cahors wine – if you visited the local supermarchés you would know why. Apart from other French wines there is normally nothing else. I have to say that after nearly 4 years of this when I do taste Bordeaux it seems a little thin!
That’s why I cannot compare to Argentinean as it is a bit hard to come by unless your are at the International Malbec days held at Cahors. (At the moment annually)
I moved here with my wife nearly 4 years ago to start a cycling holiday business in the Lot which would include our love of food and wine so included visits to chateaux on our itinerary.
That has now grown to wine only tours (as well) by minibus. So I know some of the proprietors of some of the chateaux quite well. So if anyone would like any suggestions or help let me know.
PS expect a surge of the Cahors wine and the Lot in popularity come April, when Jamie Oliver’s new TV programme is aired. He has filmed in Cahors market and spent 2 days cooking and filming with Philippe Lejeune at Chateau Chambert.

John, did you hear Robert Parker's insulting remarks about French Malbec at a happening in the RIoja region. Here is my transcript of them which I also sent to Jérémy Arnaud, the Cahors syndicate marketing manager -

Malbec from Argentina is doing great and, you know, it is one of the great things you learn from life is that Malbec was a disaster in France and is absolutely fabulous in Argentina. But what’s the explanation?

And here is the link http://tv.winelibrary.com/2009/12/04/on ... isode-780/ . I hope that it's still active.