Jancis Robinson's request for help on excellent wine retailers.

Thanks Manuel,


I suppose Rosenthal doesn't do warehousing, 'cause in NY you can't hold a distribution as well as a retailing license.

I think the store is a separate entity from the import ocncerns. At least I recal reading something about that when I was researching how it was that Rosenthal could have an import and retail license at the same time. Of course, I researched that a long time ago, and as you say about memory lapses...

At any rate, wasn't Rosenthal's warehouse someplace in Queens? Or was it Brooklyn? I remember some scenes in Mondovino that happen there, particularly one where a Haitian worker explains terroir using the example of a mango tree in his homeland. Or something like that...

We'll get to comments, Thomas. So far it's just a bunch of reccos from a bunch of people I trust -- as well as a few others that Jancis likes.

I'll post justifications in due course. I think that was the way the WLP one worked.

Sort of a half assed rating system, I suppose. FWIW.

Regards, Bob

We'll get to comments, Thomas. So far it's just a bunch of reccos from a bunch of people I trust -- as well as a few others that Jancis likes.

I'll post justifications in due course. I think that was the way the WLP one worked.

Sort of a half assed rating system, I suppose. FWIW.

Regards, Bob

Likely Bob--the half-assed thing.

Don't mind me; I seem to be in the minority, for disliking the horse-race mentality that goes into lists and ratings. At least with a horse race there is a clear, measurable winning line, but of course it is only for that one race--each race is a new beginning as competitors and tracks change, not to mention weather, riders, and that fickle thing called fate, as in broken hooves.

A list can be made objective, but only after parameters are set and results are measurable; other than that, the list works as mere hype for some and sometimes, sadly, a bad rap for others (the retailers, that is).

Thanks Manuel,


I suppose Rosenthal doesn't do warehousing, 'cause in NY you can't hold a distribution as well as a retailing license.

I think the store is a separate entity from the import ocncerns. At least I recal reading something about that when I was researching how it was that Rosenthal could have an import and retail license at the same time. Of course, I researched that a long time ago, and as you say about memory lapses...

At any rate, wasn't Rosenthal's warehouse someplace in Queens? Or was it Brooklyn? I remember some scenes in Mondovino that happen there, particularly one where a Haitian worker explains terroir using the example of a mango tree in his homeland. Or something like that...

If my memory serves--BIG IF!--Brooklyn.

The NY statute tries to make us believe that by a retailer holding a license in the supply chain he/she can control prices to our detriment. Gee. That might mean the monopolized markup given to distributors for the great service of accepting delivery from producer/importer and then making delivery to retailer (usually screwed up too) would be in jeopardy. Now doesn't that make us feel safe from being ripped off?

I think the value of this sort of database, Thomas, is that you can judge retailers a bit by the people who are recommending the store and the reasons they give for doing so. For example, in New York City, I make the following recommendations for wine shops I like:

Chambers -- choice of the wine geeks, good tastings, strong in Loire, France, good values.

Burgundy Wine Company -- specializes in Burgundy, Oregon and Rhone -- excellent transportation and storage -- bit pricey by US standards generally.

Astor -- recently expanded; greatly enhanced for wine geeks by the presence of Gregory dal Piaz.

On the negative side:

Garnet -- still ok for the careful shopper with a thick skin, but the days of many great bargains are gone.

Crossroads -- big, crowded stock, with heat damage unless you can be sure the wine recently arrived.

Acker Merrell -- big but expensive and marginal for the wine geek.

It seems to me that those sorts of opinions have some word of mouth value if you know me and the "review" are dated. I remember Robin was very open to that sort of approach.

I don't think we are really disagreeing, Thomas -- a list of retailers without more has very little value. Case in point was Jancis's first draft. But if someone would like the name of a great retailer in the Denver/Boulder area, it's nice to know there is a world class choice, at least in the mind of a few wine geeks.

Regards, Bob

I could bring up a philosophical argument to your post but I won't. Being in the minority is a spot in the universe that I cherish. When everyone tells me no, it is a definite sign that the answer is yes...

By the way, I was in the new Astor for the first time Tuesday evening on my way to teaching the class at Cooper Union. Quite impressive.

Bob,
What we really need is some kind of wiki setup. No clue how to set up, so here's a start. I copied your list (took off a couple who weren't retailers) and added some comments, identifying myself. If each person wanted to comment further, please copy whole list and identify oneself when commenting. That way we can get comments (pro or negative) about each place. One can determine how much value you put on each opinion.
cheers, Dale

Wine Merchants in the United States

Anyone interested in buying wine at retail in the US should
subscribe to Wine Searcher.com.

http://www.wine-searcher.com/wine-searcher.lml

Free version is good, but the professional version will probably pay for itself in a month or two if one is a frequent buyer of over-$25 wines.


Acker Merrall & Condit Retail Store
160 West 72nd Street
(between Broadway and Columbus)
New York, NY 10023
ackerstore@aol.com
ghttp://www.ackerwines.com/

US's oldest wine store
Dale: tends to be steeply priced, but good service.

Astor Wines & Spirits
399 Lafayette at 4th Street
New York, NY 10003
http://astoruncorked.com/
info@astorwines.com
212-674-7500
212-673-1210 fax

Excellent NYC retailer
Dale: good prices, good floor service (I’ve been less impressed with internet).


Benchmark Wine Group
474 Technology Way
Napa, CA 94558
707.255.3500
Fax (707)255-3503
http://www.benchmarkwine.com/
sales@benchmarkwine.com

WLDG recco.
Dale: Often very good prices on midlevel mature Bordeaux or Burgundy.

Brown Derby International Wine Cellar
2023 S. Glenstone
Springfield, MO 65804
Phone: (417) 883-4066
Fax: (417) 881-0036
1-800-491-3438
info@brownderby.com
http://www.brownderby.com/

WLDG recco.



B21
43380 U.S. 19 North
Tarpon Springs, FL 34689
1-888-B@!-WINE (221-9463)
http://b-21.com/

WLDG recco; largest Florida retailer.
Dale:Pretty sure they don’t ship out of state.


Burgundy Wine Company
143 West 26th Street
(between 6th/7th Ave.)
New York City, NY 10001
tel +1 888 898-8448
fax +1 212-691-9244
info@burgundywinecompany.com
web http://www.burgundywinecompany.com/

Specialize in Burgundy, Rhone and Oregon wines.
Dale:Not cheap, but great service and knowledge.


Calvert Woodley Wines & Spirits
4339 Connecticut Ave, NW
Washington, DC 20008
tel +1 202-966-4400
fax +1 202-537-5086
wine@calvertwoodley.com
http://www.calvertwoodley.com

Famous throughout the east coast.



Carolina Wine Company
6601 Hillsborough Street
Suite 118
Raleigh, NC 27606
http://carolinawine.biz/
(888)317-4499
(919)852-0236
Fax:(919)852-0237
websales@carolinawine.com

Dale:Occasionally great prices. Strong on Austria. Sometimes a little hyperbolic in their emails, and be careful re shipping costs on odd/smaller orders.




Chambers Street Wine
160 Chambers Street
New York, NY 10007
tel +1 212-227-1434
fax +1 212-227-7978
email office@chambersstwines.com
web http://www.chambersstwines.com/

Great shop for wine geeks.
Dale: Especially strong in areas like the Loire, Beaujolais, and more obscure French appellations. Good prices and service.


Corkscrew Wine Emporium
203 North Vine Street
Urbana, Illinois
61802
217-337-7704 (tel)
217-337-0309 (fax)
urbana@thecorkscrew.com
http://www.thecorkscrew.com






Corti Brothers
5810 Folsom Boulevard
Sacramento, CA 95819
tel + 1-800-509-3663
tel + 1-916-736-3800
fax + 1-916-736-3807
cortibros@sbcglobal.net
http://www.cortibros.biz/

WLDG recco.


Crush Wine & Spirits
153 East 57th Street
between Lexington and 3rd Avenues
New York, NY 10022
Phone: (212) 980-Wine (9463)
Fax: (212) 980-9468
No email listed
http://www.crushwineco.com./

WLDG recco.
Dale:Nice store, good knowledgeable service, moderately high prices.


Fine Wine International
Pier 19 the Embarcadero
San Francisco CA 94111
(v) 415.433.9463
Toll Free 866.600.9463
fax 416.433.3215
http://www.vinrare.com/
wine@vinrare.com


WLDG recco.

Garagiste
707 South Lander St.
Seattle, Washington 98134
TOLL FREE: 888.264.0053 (US only)
TEL: 206.264.1494
FAX: 206.264.1493
info@garagistewine.com
http://www.garagistewine.com/

WLDG recco.


Garnet Wine & Liquors
929 Lexington Avenue
New York, NY 10021
1-800-USA-VINO
http://www.garnetwine.com/

WLDG recco -- once the bargain leader in NYC.
Dale:Now prices and selection aren’t as impressive. Not bad storage a la Crossroads, but I wouldn’t buy anything that was two years past release.

Gary's Wine & Marketplace
100 Morristown Road
Bernardsville, NJ 07940
http://www.garysmarket.com/
Email: info@garyswine.com
Phone: 908-766-6699
Fax: 908-766-5522
Two other locations in Chester and Madison, NJ.

WLDG recco.
Dale: Good (occasionally great) prices. Beware closeout Bordeaux.


Grapes The Wine Company
11 Purdy Avenue
Rye, NY 10580
Tel: 914-967-9245
Fax:914-967-7025
Exit 20 off of I 95N,
Exit 21 off of I 95S
Exit 11 off of I 287
info@grapesthewineco.com
http://www.grapesthewineco.com/

WLDG recco.
Dale: Excellent service. Especially strong in higher end Burgundy, Italian, and Bordeaux “collectibles.”


Hart Davis Hart Wine Co.
363 W. Erie Street
Chicago, IL 60610
http://www.hdhwine.com/
emails not published on site.
p: (312) 482.9996
f: (312) 335.9096

WLDG recco.
Dale: Good (occasionally great) prices on older wines, also do auctions.



Hinsdale Wine Shop
12 E Hinsdale Ave.
Hinsdale, IL
630-654-9862 (tel)


HiTimewine.net
250 Ogle Street
Costa Mesa, CA 92627
800-331-3005
http://www.hitimewine.net/

Extraordinary depth; largest in the West; WLDG recco.


Howard's Wine Cellar
1244 W Belmont Ave
Chicago, IL 60657-3207
(773) 248-3766



Italian Wine Merchants
108 East 16th Street (between Park Avenue South & Irving Place)
New York, NY 10003
tel +1 212.473.2323
fax +1 212.473.1952
sergio@italianwinemerchant.com
http://www.italianwinemerchant.com

Sergio Esposito, Joe Bastianich and Mario Batali .
Dale: Top end stuff, astronomical prices.


Just Grapes
560 W. Washington Boulevard
Suite 100
Chicago, IL 60661
Tel: (312) 627-WINE
Fax: (312) 627-1856




K&L Wine Merchants
3005 El Camino Real
Redwood City, CA 94061
http://www.klwines.com/
No listed email
877-KLWines (877-559-4637)
(650) 364-8544
(650) 364-4687 (Fax)

638 4th Street
San Francisco, CA 94107
(415) 896-1734
(415) 896-1739 (Fax)

3005 El Camino Real
Redwood City, CA 94061
877-KLWines (877-559-4637)
(650) 364-8544
(650) 568-0814 (Fax)

Excellent retailer.




Liquorama Wine Cellars
Hyde Park Mall
Hyde Park, NEW YORK 12538
1-800-322-3735
http://www.winecellarsny.com/



Liquor Mart
1750 15th St
Boulder, CO 80302
(303) 449-3374
http://www.liquormart.com/

Incredible range and prices; WLDG recco .
Dale: Big store with lots of depth.


Lush
1306 S Halsted
Chicago, Illinois
312-738-1900 (tel)





MacArthurs Beverages
4877 MacArthur Blvd., N.W.
Washington, DC 20007
Toll Free: (866) 674-3716
Local Phone: (202) 338-1433
Fax: (202) 333-0806
E-mail: wine@bassins.com

Widely known in the US. Dale:Good prices at sales.


PJ Wine
4898 Broadway
(between 204th and 207th Streets)
New York, NY
212 567-5500
fax 212-567-2743
sales@pjwine.com
http://www.pjwine.com/

WLDG recco Dale: Very strong Bdx future pricing, big Spanish selection.



Potomac Selections
8648 Old Ardmore Road
Landover, Maryland 2078

????????


Premier Cru
5890 Christie Avenue
Emeryville, CA 94608
tel +1 510-655-6691
fax +1 510-547-5405
info@Premier Cru.net
http://premiercru.net

WLDG recco. Dale:Very good (and often great) pricing. Maybe best pricing in country if I had to pick one. Top grey-marketer. I’ve found service as far as shipping to be excellent, but this maybe isn’t the place to call for a chat for recommendations.



Premier Group.net
3445 Delaware Avenue
Kenmore, NY 14217
800-666-6560
716-873-6688
http://prime.premiergroup.net/

Largest NY retailer; WLDG recco.


Randolph Wine Cellars
1415 W. Randolph Street
Chicago, IL 60607
312-942-1212 (tel)
312-942-1268 (fax)
info@tlcwine.com
http://www.tlcwine.com




Rare Wine Company
21481 Eighth Street East
Sonoma, CA 95476
(800) 999-4342 phone toll free
(707) 996-4484 phone local
(800) 893-1501 fax toll free
(707) 996-4491 fax local
sales@rarewineco.com
http://www.rarewineco.com/

Outstanding retailer.



Rochambeau Wines and Liquors
389 Broadway
Dobbs Ferry, N.Y. 10522
tel +1 914-693-0034
info@rochambeauwines.com
http://www.rochambeauwines.com/

Dale:Pretty fair pricing for NY, especially during annual clearance sale. Historically strong in Burgundy and Right Bank Bordeaux, but partial ownership shifts seem to be leading to more NA Syrah/Pinot emphasis. Don’t ask for Steve Austin.

Sam's Wine and Spirits
1720 North Marcey Street
Chicago, IL 60614
312-664-4394
http://www.samswine.com

2010 Butterfield Rd.
Downers Grove, IL 60515
630-705-9463

1919 Skokie Valley Rd.
Highland Park, IL 60035
847-433-9463
sams@samswine.com
http://www.samswine.com/

Leading retailer and auction house. Dale:Strong Bordeaux futures pricing.


WLDG recco.



Schaefer's
9965 Gross Point Road
Skokie, IL
847-673-5711 (tel)
http://www.schaefers.com


Sherry-Lehmann Wine and Spirits
679 Madison Avenue
(Between 61st & 62nd St.)
New York City
(212) 838-7500
http://www.sherry-lehmann.com/
inquiries@sherry-lehmann.com

WLDG recco; one of the best in the US.
Dale:Excellent provenance on older wines. Prices range from very good to dreadful. Better selection for Bordeaux or New World imho than Burgundy (lots of so-so negociants and producers). Top service.


Shopper's Vineyard
875 Bloomfield Avenue
Clifton,
NJ 07012
tel +1 973-916-0707
fax + 1 973-778-9777
shoppersvineyard@seointel.com
http://www.shoppersvineyard.com

????????

D. Sokolin Co.
12 Foster Ave.
Bridgehampton, NY 11932
800-946-3947
631-537-4434
Fax: 631-537-4435
sales@sokolin.com
http://www.sokolin.com/


WLDG recco.
Dale: Prices are all over the place. Be aware that there’s a very good chance if you see that they list a “brokerage” wine at a very good price, it won’t be available.



Village Corner
601 S. Forest Avenue
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
734-995-1818
fax 734-995-1826
http://www.villagecorner.com/
winerat@villagecorner.com

WLDG recco.



Wally's Wine & Spirits
2107 Westwood Avenue
Los Angeles, CA 90025
tel +1 310 475-0606
fax +1 310 474-1450
customerservice@wallywine.com
http://www.wallywine.com

????

Wine Discount Center
1826 N. Elston Avenue, Chicago
(773)489-3454
http://www.winediscountcenters.com


Wine Exchange
1500 E. Village Way #2364
(Near Tustin & Heim)
Orange, CA 92865
tel +1 800.76.WINEX
tel +1 714.974.1454
fax +1 714.974.1792
wines@winex.comhttp://www.winex.com/

Excellent mail order house.
Dale:Plenty of stuff in store, too. Good pricing.



Wine Expo
2933 Santa Monica Blvd.
Santa Monica CA 90404
(310)828-4428
No website????

WLDG recco.
Dale:Maybe strongest place in country for off-the-beaten track Italian wines (they have plenty of Barolos and Brunellos, but really specialize in the less popular appellations). Also very large Champagne section.


Wine House
2311 Cotner Avenue
Los Angeles, CA
Phone: 310.479.3731
Fax: 310.478.5609
http://www.wineaccess.com/store/winehou ... -info.html
wine@winehouse.com

WLDG recco.



Wine Library
586 Morris Avenue
Springfield, NJ 07081
888-980-WINE (9463)
http://winelibrary.com/
info@winelibrary.com

WLDG recco
Dale: Good prices, good selection.


The Wine Rack Shop
335 E. Lancaster Avenue
Downingtown, PA 19335
tel +1 (610) 322 3760
http://www.winerackshop.com

?????


Woodland Hills Wine Company
22622 Ventura Blvd.
Woodland Hills, CA 91364
Toll Free: 800.678.WINE (9463)
Local: 818.222.1111
Fax: 818.222.3999
kyle@whwc.com
http://www.whwineco.com/

WLDG recco
Dale: Especially strong in Burgundy.



Zachys
16 East Parkway
Scarsdale, NY 10583
tel +1 866 922-4971
CustomerService@zachys.com
http://www.zachys.com

Dale:Prices can be quite high, but occasionally some real steals during sales. Top notch service.

Well, we agree on that second philosophical point, Thomas. (I'm not sure what the first one is, of course.)

Regards, Bob

PS: does that mean I can count you as recommending Astor? :-) B.

We should get Robin in on this discussion, Dale. I love your approach -- it would distinguish what we are doing from the Jancis database, for example.

My vague memory is that Robin has such a system on WLP, but darned if I can find it.

I'm happy to pitch in -- I think this sort of database would have value for many of us, especially those who travel or those who live in such a wine friendly area as the NYC metropolitan area.

Regards, Bob

Well, we agree on that second philosophical point, Thomas. (I'm not sure what the first one is, of course.)

Regards, Bob

PS: does that mean I can count you as recommending Astor? B.

Cute Bob, but not on your (or my) life

OK, OK ... Regards, Bob

Not sure how to do this directly. I mentioned Village Corner in Ann Arbor, Michigan because of the selection of European wines (lots of German wines and a good selection of Burgundies). They have a panel of tasters that get together regularly and post notes of their evaluation of the wines. I believe these can be located on the website. Joel Goldberg could probably add to this if he is around the forum.

Carolina Wine Company: large 55 degree F. warehouse and high degree of care that wines are shipped to them under proper temperatures
good prices
Good selection of Burgundies since the owner is partial to both white and red Burgundies. Limited number of California, Oregon and Washington wines but increasingly bringing in some high-quality, limited production Pinot Noirs and Zinfandels from California (such as Eric Ross Occidental Vineyard Old Vine Zin, Biale Black Chicken Zin, and Casa Carneros Los Carneros Pinot Noir and Opitz Pinot Noir. Relationship with Enoteca Vin Restaurant in Raleigh which offers wine by 1.5 oz., 3 oz., glass or bottle and hosts wine dinners and charity events. CWC also does wine tastings in the store or at Fowler's in Durham. Some are free and some have a price.

I added both your suggestions to Jancis's list, and we will certainly add them to the WLP list that Dale Williams has suggested. Both sound like great stores -- I've dealt several years ago with Carolina Wine Company and was impressed.

Let's see what Robin decides to do with WLP's database.

Thanks for the reccos. Regards, Bob

Morgan & York
1928 Packard
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104

bigtenmarket.com


I am in debt to these people for both my modest knowledge of wine and my wild enthusiasm to know, and taste, more.