Etiquette question: You're at someone's house, and you break a glass

[Jenise]

Thanks, everybody, for your responses. I'm glad to see an overwelming majority. In fact, there are no dissenters at all. Whew!

Cynthia, fully agreed about the affects of giving on the giver. When I was a child, I was a pharmacy soda fountain with a friend and it turned out a dime I thought I had must have fallen out of my pocket and I couldn't pay my bill. I was horrified. I was born with a strong sense of the need to earn and pay one's own way, and would never have ordered something I couldn't pay for. So I explained this to the waitress and offered to work for them to pay back the dime, at which point a dime came scuttling down the bar from the couple a few stools away. To me, that was shocking. I had no idea anyone would ever give money to a stranger who had not earned it. I had no concept of random acts of kindness--there had been no example of that yet in my life. So I thanked them profusely and asked for their names, and then went home and looked them up in the phone book. When I got my next allowance, I road my bike to their house and repaid the dime. It was their turn to be shocked, and they explained to me their philosophy about giving, that the more they gave away the more they had. I was too young to understand this, but I fully understood when they forced me to take my dime back that it wasn't mine to keep but to give away some day. And I have--lots of them.

So it was your statement that made me more comfortable about this, because you're exactly right about why my friends didn't desist on this path when I told them I'd refuse any such gift. They probably have a dime in their past, too, and this is their way of paying it back.

I don't expect guests to replace broken Riedel and always tell them not to.

I never offer to replace broken Riedel but then always do, by mail with a note apologizing for being a klutz.

Anything less expensive than Riedel doesn't count.

I do exactly what you did in telling guests it's not a big deal when a glass breaks...if someone sent me glasses as a replacement, I would thank them profusely. My wine friends tend to be very giving....they often bring a gift bottle or chocolate or something extra when they come over....

The only time I've ever broken a glass (at least that I remember) at someone else's house happened many, many years ago. I had drunk too much, and when I put the glass down, I mis-judged the distance to the table and the glass shattered. I immediately offered to replace it, but was told that it had been `bought in Ireland for their wedding'...and it was irreplaceable....

But, there was something I COULD do....and in they brought this little black and white kitten from a litter...and I was told that all would be square if I took the kitten....well.. I was living someplace where I couldn't have a cat, but....what could I do???

That cat, Pudge, was with me 18 years.... I think I waaay got the better of the deal!!!

Many years ago, I was in a group with one of the oafiest/clumsy guys in the world. His solution was to always travel with his own stems. he didn't care if the host liked it or not and after a while it was just part of inviting him.
BP

[Jenise]

I don't expect guests to replace broken Riedel and always tell them not to.

I never offer to replace broken Riedel but then always do, by mail with a note apologizing for being a klutz.

Anything less expensive than Riedel doesn't count.

Clint, I have a friend who pours in Baccarat--talk about pressure. I'm likelier to break those than anything else, just for being nervous! That aside, so you don't expect guests to replace glasses, but then you do that yourself? Isn't that a mixed message?

"Mixed message"? I guess so. But I'm not sending a message, just trying to keep friends.

Ooooh, awkward! Of course, it's a nice gesture on the part of your guests, but it goes a little too far and sets a worrisome precedent. What if it becomes a trend to send people new glasses when someone breaks something at their house? Where does it end?

But seriously... I think, along with so many others, that your "my house, my risk attitude" is absolutely correct. Hosting a party where lots of wine will be consumed in quality stemware, one assumes breakage. Hell, I count on a few stems going each time we jeebus here. In fact, there have been some very interesting instances... Like the Hungarian young lady who accidentally destroyed a beautiful Champagne flute with her butt.. Oh, but wait: TMI.

I'd say just send a thank you note to the couple that emphasizes how nice, yet completely and utterly unnecessary the gesture was. And leave it at that.

[Jenise]

Manuel said:

I'd say just send a thank you note to the couple that emphasizes how nice, yet completely and utterly unnecessary the gesture was. And leave it at that.

Yup, that's exactly what I did, Manuel.

Jim Dietz: great story. And I think Pudge made out pretty good, too.

But under normal circumstances, isn't glass breakage part of the territory?

Jenise,

I’ve never seen anything in an etiquette book addressing your question. I think you have to use gracious (not necessarily common) sense; but I don’t think you can generalize. My advice would be to read each situation individually in the spirit of grace. If I broke a glass, I would apologize and announce that I would replace it. If the host or hostess countered with something similar to your remarks, I would graciously thank him or her and repeat my displeasure of having been so clumsy.

If somebody broke a glass in my house (and I never entertain and host only about two business related dinners a year; but as luck would have it, the last associate broke a glass) I would say the same kinds of things that you did. If the person replaced the glass, anyway, I would thank him or her. I think you have to be sensitive to the personality of the other party in the equation and accommodate it to the end of the reasonableness range in either direction.

Covert

Mike B...remind me to bring my own glass when I am invited over for that famous flight of Yellow Tail.

You've got me all wrong, Bob. For you, nothing but the best. I'll bring out the Ikea wine glasses and the finest Baby Duck.

[Jenise]

Covert said:

If I broke a glass, I would apologize and announce that I would replace it.

.

With good friends with whom you socialize casually and frequently, would you really feel that was neccessary? That was my whole dilemna here, normally I wouldn't. Of course I'd apologize for my clumsiness and any mess made (quite often, the mess could be by far the worst part of the problem), but unless I knew the glassware to be expensive or special (like Dorothy and Gary's champagne flutes) I wouldn't offer to replace. In fact, in the latter type of case, there'd be no discussion--I simply WOULD replace. It must be done, and no buying second hand glassware on eBay either. It must be brand new, in box, regardless of cost. And I figured everyone here would agree with that and do likewise, it was my having a frequent guest (twice a month, say) replace a Spieglau with a much more expensive Riedel that made me question my own possible lack of grace if the situation were reversed.

I would thank him or her. I think you have to be sensitive to the personality of the other party in the equation and accommodate it to the end of the reasonableness range in either direction.

Yes, agreed. Always. Oh, I might add that in the act of doing so, if I understood correctly my guests believed that the glass they broke was as expensive as the Riedel they replaced it with.

I did see a Miss Manners column on this issue, though it was directed at breakage in general, not just the eggshell-thin crystal we all insist on imbibing from. Her take was that the breaker must immediately offer to replace, but host must refuse to accept the offer. The breaker then may at their option insist, and the host may accept at their option.

And that's for durable items like plates and end tables. Wine glasses fall much closer to the "consumable" end, maybe a step above paper napkins. If you can't afford to have guests break them, you can't afford to have guests use them. Certainly, I would never allow a guest to replace them, though if a box arrived in the mail I'd graciously accept because I wouldn't want to offend by returning it.

Walt

Covert said:

If I broke a glass, I would apologize and announce that I would replace it.

.

With good friends with whom you socialize casually and frequently, would you really feel that was neccessary?

No, not with good friends; but as I think you know, I don't have any friends that I socialize with. I haven't had a dinner guest who wasn't a business associate in 25 years, or so. I was so sure that I was giving good advice when I posted, but now I think I was wrong about what I would do even with associates. What a difference a day makes (without alcohol in my system). Scary.

I've really enjoyed thinking about your question, Jenise, at odd moments over the past few days. You might find my own approach interesting, or at least amusing.

I grew up on a family farm and there was a very strong culture of always replacing anything that we broke that belonged to someone else. In fact, if we borrowed something, there was a culture of returning it in better condition than when we got it -- a half tank of gas if we received the tractor a quarter full, for example. Sharpen the axe, replace the handle on a hoe if we broke it or if it was wearing out, etc. Our minister reinforced the message from time to time, but the rule was very, very practical. Folks who didn't do the "right thing" with other people's property soon found that people wouldn't lend them tools or help them chase down stray cattle. They still participated in community events -- one hard hearted fellow was president of the one room school board, but he had to work awfully hard for everything he got from other people.

When I got to New York, I met a fellow who said there was similar culture in Japan. I don't know the spelling of the word, but it's pronounced "ON" as in "Please be on time."

The goal was always to "have the on" with friends and associates -- lots of implications, but basically one had to replace anything that one broke, or the person suffering the loss would "have the on". If someone did you a favor, you had to reciprocate to the same extent -- that made the "on" neutral between the two of you, or reciprocate with more, in which case you had "the on". In the case you posit, you have "the on" because you invited your friends to the dinner party; the broken glass increased your "on", and in that culture it was essential that the person breaking the glass had to reciprocate, and reciprocate with a better glass.

This cultural difference was really helpful for me in coming up with an adult approach. Generally, I'm still a farm boy trying to "make things right" when I screw up. If I broke a glass, I would apologize immediately, send a note a day later, and replace the glass with what I thought was an equivalent glass, or perhaps a better glass. That would make me feel good -- I would have done the best I could to "make things right."

This is my practice not only with strangers, but also with friends and family. From time to time close friends bitch me out, but like Clint, I think the friendships are really important, and I need to treat my friends and family at least as well as I would strangers.

On the other hand, I've tried not to judge people adversely if they don't share my approach. I do have trouble with a couple of close friends who have absolutely no respect for other people's property -- one of my closest friends is amazingly cavalier about breaking stuff and then blaming the owner -- sometimes he's very funny -- it was a two year old table after all. (This after he busted a $500 glass table top.)

In any event, I think your friend did the right thing -- they respected your property, took responsibility for their actions, and did their best to make things right. I admire them, frankly.

Unless you believe they have manipulative motives for their actions, I would accept the replacements with thanks. I believe they respect you as a person, they respect your property and I would treasure them as good friends trying to do the right thing.

Regards, Bob

Fascinating, Bob, thanks much.

I like the currency of the "ON." It's a fine analogy, not just to farming communities.

Some people don't even know how to close a gate.

Best,

Joe

Nice though-provoking post, Bob.

My mower wouldn't start last year, while it was in shop I borrowed neighbors, always returning filled with gasoline no matter how it started. Yesterday a friend needed to get to an appt at same time as his wife needed their one car, when he used mine he returned full. I doubt in either case whether I or my friends thought about it for more than a second. And in neither case was the goal kao (keeping face), ensuring that we'd be allowed to borrow again, or "having the on." It was just a genuine act of appreciation (of course, some behaviorologists would argue there is no such thing, but F$%^ them).

The difference in Jenise's case is that her friends did not borrow the glasses (if one borrowed glasses to go to an offline and broke, I think anyone would replace). She invited them to her house, placed fragile stems in front of them. She knew it was part of the risk and accepted it (when we have 5 year olds to dinner, they get plastic glasses even if table is formally set).

I've never broken a stem at another's home that I recall, but several people have broken them at mine. All have apologized, I've always assured them it's fine, and we've always left at that. They don't need to go buy a set of stems to replace one (and probably would spend far too much if they did, as I am a bargain-hunting bastard). As long as someone is not being malicious, it is churlish to blame them for a simple (and not totally unexpected) accident. If I invited you into my house, it is because you are my friend, and I don't keep score.

Out of curiosity, if someone invited you to their house, served a dish in a sauce, and as you served yourself you spilled some onto their antique lace tablecloth, do you fill compelled to check if the stain came completely out? Is it neccessary to replace the tablecloth if not?

Of course, the best solution as a caring host is to get the Schott Zweisel break-resistant glasses.

[Jenise]

Bob Ross said:

The goal was always to "have the on" with friends and associates -- lots of implications, but basically one had to replace anything that one broke, or the person suffering the loss would "have the on".

Aren't Japanese manners wonderful? I think to an extent most of us informally practice a form of what you describe under the general umbrella of treating other people's property with respect, we just don't have a name or a system of steps. That the Japanese do raises civility to an art form.

But Dale put it well. Glassware is a consumable, not property per se. The broken glass was not borrowed. And the circumstance was nothing as formal as a dinner party. These are good neighborhood friends who happened to drop by around dinner time, and I suggested they join us for dinner because what I was making could stretch to feed four. It's like feeding family--could not have been more casual. Had the occasion been more formal and the friends less familiar, I would not have been so surprised....

LIGHT BULB MOMENT!!!! I just thought of something. I mentioned that I replaced someone's champagne flutes. Well, that friend is another neighborhood friend, Gary and Dorothy. Well Jeff (of the couple who gave me the Riedels) and Gary went to high school together in Seattle, moved to Southern California together in their early 20's, and now they live here in their 50's--you get it, they're tight. So it is somewhat probable that Jeff knew that we gave Gary a pair of flutes to replace the one Bob dropped (10 seconds after being handed it with the words "and Bob, you get to drink out of this very special glass"), and from that inaccurately supposed that that we would expect replacement of anyone who broke any glass at our home. It is also just as likely that it is simply their way, they're very gracious. But the same grace would usually require that once the offer was made and refused, that the matter was settled. That they gave me the glasses anyway made me feel that I failed to insist hard enough, though I know full well I was vehement in my refusal.

I would not replace the glass. I would more than likely find a way to compensate in the future either with an unexpected present of wine or something you may like better like a ticket to see Bob Dylan. Well that is what I would prefer if someone broke one of my reidels before I did. That is why I mostly use Spiegalo now.

Some very good points, Dale -- I'll have to consider them a bit.

One point of clarification -- my business friend used the "on" concept to describe American business and political practices rather than the Japanese kao (or keeping face). His rational was really more defensive -- if another person had the on he, my business friend, would "owe" him something, often something not very well defined. He was in a sense vulnerable.

It was a useful lesson -- I've used it to help work out business people's and politician's motivations on a number of occasions.

I'll get back to you on your other points tomorrow.

Regards, Bob

"Aren't Japanese manners wonderful? I think to an extent most of us informally practicecul a form of what you describe under the general umbrella of treating other people's property with respect, we just don't have a name or a system of steps. That the Japanese do raises civility to an art form."

I agree, Jenise -- as I mentioned to Dale, my business friend was really describing US business practices -- and using the Japanese concept because there's not a real US word for the behaviour.

Shakespeare's admonition [platitude?]: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" when applied in a social sense, not an investment sense, sort of captures the thought. But since credit is such an important aspect of our culture, Shakespeare's formulation doesn't really work.

Again, thanks for a thought provoking question.

Regards, Bob

I would not replace the glass. I would more than likely find a way to compensate in the future either with an unexpected present of wine or something you may like better like a ticket to see Bob Dylan. Well that is what I would prefer if someone broke one of my reidels before I did. That is why I mostly use Spiegalo now.

That's probably a better solution than my more awkward practice of replacing the glass: say, a bottle of wine worth something more than the broken glass plus a thank-you note for the evening's entertainment and for putting up with my clumsiness.

That's probably a better solution than my more awkward practice of replacing the glass: say, a bottle of wine worth something more than the broken glass plus a thank-you note for the evening's entertainment and for putting up with my clumsiness.

"I just webbed you. That mean's you get the apartment."