The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Wine Focus - September: A love once new has now grown old

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4972

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus - September: A love once new has now grown ol

by Tim York » Thu Sep 11, 2025 1:11 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I will throw in a winery rather than a grape or wine. I was a huge fan and massive supporter of Idlewild. Then around the 2021 vintage........


That is an interesting variation on the same theme. Of course, among the many wine estates in Europe, standards can change, particularly with a change of generation in a family or outright sale to a third party. Mostly the generation changes have been beneficial with sons and/or daughters employing more up to date practices in the vineyards and cellars as a result of a better professional education at agricultural colleges. However, offhand I can think of the following estates where I have ceased regsular purchases.

Château Poujeaux - Moulis-en-Médoc - I was a big fan of the 80s and 90s vintages produced here by the Theil family which IMO punched well above its cru bourgeois weight. I already thought that the 2000 and 2001 were not quite up to previous level and have only purchased sporadically in later vintages. The Theil family was apparently suffering from inheritance disagreements and sold to the Cuvelier family c. 2008. Reports are that the wines have recovered most of their quality. I should look again as prices remain reasonable c.€30.

Domaine René-Noël Legrand - Saumur-Champigny I was a regular visitor at the estate through the 90s and early 00s. My last visit was in 2008 and I recall a subsequent mail order. I loved his wines for their gutsy, earthy character and robust fruit and some acquired great finesse and elegance with age, e.g. 1982 and 1989. Very friendly prices did not hurt. His daughter, Clotilde, took over more than 10 years ago and for a few years I bought her entry level cuvées at Carrefour's annual Foire aux Vins; they were still up to Papa's standard but are no longer listed there. If I were to visit the region, I would call at the estate to check it out.

Domaine Oratoire Saint-Martin - Cairanne, S. Rhône The owners, the Alary brothers, were regular visitors in Belgium when I was living there and I was a big fan of their whole range. I continued to find their wines at quality cavistes after moving to France. After one of the brothers had a bad cellar accident, they sold out to the CndP estate Mont-Redon and I no longer see their wines on many shelves. The RVF guide has demoted them reporting some slippage in standards. I would still stretch for a bottle if I saw one so as to form my own opinion.
Tim York
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8983

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Wine Focus - September: A love once new has now grown ol

by Paul Winalski » Thu Sep 11, 2025 1:21 pm

I was never a Beaujolais fan--the bananarama Duboeuf wines put me off. But last year the NH State Liquor Store had some Beaujolais crus at attractive prices. The ones I tried were excellent. I'm always on the lookout for them when I visit the NH State Store.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35975

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus - September: A love once new has now grown ol

by David M. Bueker » Thu Sep 11, 2025 5:16 pm

Tim - I gave up on Poujeaux as well, but Potensac is still quite good and reasonable value.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4582

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Wine Focus - September: A love once new has now grown ol

by Mark Lipton » Thu Sep 11, 2025 6:25 pm

When I think of wineries I've given up upon, the poster child is Caymus Vineyards. I first fell in love with their wines in the early '80s, and visited them on a couple of occasions when the guy pouring the wines was Charlie Wagner, the owner and an old, crusty farmer who was hella intimidating to a an early-20s guy who'd fallen in love with the wines. By '87, there was a tasting room and professional staff and, as John Gilman has explained, in the '87 vintage they for the first time added grapes that had previously gone into their Estate Cabernet into their Special Selection bottling, with predictable results. It was also at that time, I believe, that the son Chuck Wagner took over the winemaking and direction of the operation. Prices also escalated and, by '91 or '92 I'd given up on them. Needless to say, subsequent events have done nothing to change my feelings.
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4972

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus - September: A love once new has now grown ol

by Tim York » Fri Sep 12, 2025 9:50 am

David M. Bueker wrote:Tim - I gave up on Poujeaux as well, but Potensac is still quite good and reasonable value.


I like Potensac.

Here in France, the Bordeaux region, contrary to Burgundy, is now becoming a good source of QPR reds at around €10-12/bottle. With some care in selection, lots of very drinkable wines are available from, say, Fronsac and outlying Côtes like Blaye, Bourg and Castillon as well as lesser Médoc and St.Émilion. These are now incomparably better than their equivalents 30 years ago. Paradoxically the region is in crisis with lots of bankruptcies and subsidized vine uprooting going on.
Tim York
Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazon, ByteSpider, ClaudeBot, DotBot, FB-extagent and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign