The One European Red Wine to Inform California Wine Drinkers

The fastest growing European wines on the California market are reds from Spain (not necessarily Rioja), so this should give a hint of the direction Californian consumers are taking in the real world.

[David M. Bueker]

Now I would not specifically go for the P-L since they were lousy from about 1986-1998, but perhaps a 1999 Lichine would work after all. 1999 is a great Bordeaux vintage to hook people with, as it's easier to drink than many other recent vintages.

I am training myself and my brother on French wines. I have to say I still kinda liked the 1996 P-L-very, very red fruit and austere; now you have intrigued me as to what a better vintage of this wine would taste like.

The 2002 is quite good (and pretty cheap). It's got more meat on its bones than most '90s Lichine's, but still with some of that austerity. I like it a lot.

The fastest growing European wines on the California market are reds from Spain (not necessarily Rioja), so this should give a hint of the direction Californian consumers are taking in the real world.

You mean like very good wine at very low prices? We have all this stuff coming out of Campo de Borja, Jumilla, Calatayud, and La Mancha. Mostly garnacha, sometimes monastrell, sometimes tempranillo, all of it delicious, none of it priced over $8!!

And, of course, Bierzo is the flavor of the month. Two years ago this was a serious hand sell. Now we can't keep the stuff in stock.

DRC La Tache would be the last one I drink because I could not afford...... the doctor bills after my wife beat me senseless. Let me see if my rich friends will want a wine education.

Wives are replaceable, bruises heal, and lots of towns have free clinics. Actually, I should have recommended the DRC La Tache only if price is no object.

The fastest growing European wines on the California market are reds from Spain (not necessarily Rioja), so this should give a hint of the direction Californian consumers are taking in the real world.

Agree Victor, kitchen table taken over by recent Spain buys!!! I think we will have to look at Spain/some specific regions on Wine Focus soon.....Hello Robin, sorry Hello Marilyn.

[James Roscoe]

03 CdP = ? Chateauneuf-du-Pape?

Yep! I was trying to teach and keep up with the forum at the same time. It's a tricky proposition.

[Jenise]

Robin,
My first thought was a So France red with grenache-syrah-mourvedre blends as it if full bodied and hearty, something a new wine drinker would like. I was surprised at your remark on Chianti. Properly made in the classic style this wine should have a good dose of acid and go best with food. It is my #2 grape variety but would not think that it would be where a neophite should start.

Rod has expressed in other threads that he doesn't like high acid wines, so I'd keep him away from Chianti. Southern Rhones and even Bordeaux would be a great choice, though, in warm years like 03.

I think - and tried to express this in my earlier post - that the thing to do is to expose such a person to the things which the Europeans do that California simply cannot, or does not, do.

Well-aged Bordeaux is going to be different than anything from the Golden State. Same with an upscale Burgundy. A well-aged Nebbiolo (I've never had a decent Nebbiolo from California, and there's nothing else like it). Several people have mentioned German whites. Perhaps a "library wine" from the Rioja?

There are several ideas along those lines. I simply cannot see the point of going with wines that try to emulate the California style. California does it better.

[Jenise]

I think - and tried to express this in my earlier post - that the thing to do is to expose such a person to the things which the Europeans do that California simply cannot, or does not, do.

Well-aged Bordeaux is going to be different than anything from the Golden State. Same with an upscale Burgundy. A well-aged Nebbiolo (I've never had a decent Nebbiolo from California, and there's nothing else like it). Several people have mentioned German whites. Perhaps a "library wine" from the Rioja?

There are several ideas along those lines. I simply cannot see the point of going with wines that try to emulate the California style. California does it better.

Isaac, I see your point, but I wasn't suggesting European wines that "emulate" California. Couldn't be further than what I was thinking.

You know, there's a lot more to taste than acidity, and to someone whose taste buds interpret acidity as bitterness, or who simply like fuller fruit, there are a lot of European wines that fill that bill that also have the distinct and unmistakable imprint of their terroir. We had an 03 Terrabianca Scassino the other night that was warm and fleshy (low acid) and won't age like most Terrabiancas do, but make no mistake that wine smelled and tasted of Italy and no sangiovese grown anywhere else can duplicate that flavor. And the same is true of Bordeaux and the grenaches/grenache blends of Southern France. As someone who participates in blind tastings all the time, I can assure you that even in warmer, low-acid years, traditionally made wines still taste like Bordeaux and the Rhone and the California equivalents still stand out as New World. That doesn't make either better except for the extent to which they suit our personal taste.

I've been pondering this since I first saw the post. Several have suggested CdP, and I concur. Some have noted that some vintages of some CdP can be very fruity,etc, and are likely to appeal to one with California tastes. I would work it from the other end. I would go for a real traditional CdP from a traditional year. So my recommendation comes down to Bois de Boursan, the regular bottling, not the cuvee Felix which is made for the American market. And I would go for the '99 which is still on some shelves, because it is very traditional and never shut down, or the 2001 if you cannot find the '99. (the 2000 is shut down, or was the last time I tried it.) This is not the best CdP ever made, but is a damn good one and it is very representative of traditional CdPs. And it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, either.

I guess there is a large gap (The Atlantic?) between Europe (Norway) and The US of A, in the matter of wine taste preferences. And then I am not talking about the enlightened and experienced members of this forum and others alike.

There is in USA a large domestic production of wine and the citizens of America is supportive of their products. Why shouldn't they? The local wines probably get a lot of space in wine magazines and in newspaper coloumns on the expense of European wine. The "wine opinion" in USA is formed by these factors.

Coming from Europe and formed by a good but "political correct" wine press, I of course find the American sceptisism towards European wine somewhat odd. (What is "European wine anyway"? At least 400 different styles). I drink Burgundy, Riesling, Valpolicella, Chablis, Nebbiolo, ocasionally a Grüner Veltliner and oddities like Sherry and Tokaji, but hardly any American wine. Not so strange; you have to be a damn good detective to find an American wine getting good points and reviews in Norwegian wine mags and papers. The price on American wines are also quite high over here.

But for my burthday I got a bottle of Ravenswood Zinfandel 2004, so now I guess I gotta try.

Anyone tried this one?

Free your mind, and the rest will follow!

But for my burthday I got a bottle of Ravenswood Zinfandel 2004, so now I guess I gotta try.

Anyone tried this one?

Yes, some of them. There are several different bottlings of zinfandel by Ravenswood, from the lowest "vintner's blend" (pretty industrial plonk) to some single vintage stuff that isn't half bad. What else does the label say?

It says Ravenswood Napa Valley Zinfandel 2004.

I noticed on the back label there is "acidity warning"! And it comes before the alcohol content.. which is "only" 14,5%.

1983 Chateau Margaux! 'Nuf said.

It says Ravenswood Napa Valley Zinfandel 2004.

That's a step up from the VB, but I haven't had the '04 of that one. Should be fairly good.

It costs $30,49 here in Norway. What is the approx. price in USA?

[David M. Bueker]

$15-$20 for the Ravenswood NAPA.

Rod,

I agree with many of the comments above, but to answer your question directly, I'd serve a bottle of 1998 Domaine Bois de Boursin Chateauneuf du Pape "Cuvee Felix". It is over 14% alcohol, very richly flavored, with gobs of ripe red fruit, and is untraditioanlly aged in small French oak barrels, but still displays that wonderful Southern Rhone earthiness. In short, my guess is the way to win over a CA wine lover is to find a European wine with similar palate impression, while also revealing the unique earthiness one often finds in European wines.

My experience with my friends over the past 25 years is that the more they drink and explore wine, the more European they buy! This is not to say there aren't wonderful wines made in CA, but to say that that industry is so commercialized and money driven, that few of the widely available brands have taken the time to focus on wines that express their "terroir". Luckily there is a movement afoot in CA to do just that by small artisan producers. But their prices are high compared to European wines, and they are hard to get. I would say the Southern Rhone in general is a good place to start. Another wine that always delivers the goods for an amazingly cheap price is Domaine de la Espigouette Cote du Rhone "Vielle Vigne" It is imported by J et R Imports, Mt. Pleasant, MI, and costs around $12.00. Try the 2003. They'll be hooked!

Jim Lester

The fastest growing European wines on the California market are reds from Spain (not necessarily Rioja), so this should give a hint of the direction Californian consumers are taking in the real world.

Quite! And vice versa!

Rod,

I'd serve a bottle of 1998 Domaine Bois de Boursin Chateauneuf du Pape "Cuvee Felix".

Jim Lester

Thanks for being specific, Lester. 2000 is the only one I see on wine-searcher. Where do you get it? 2000 is $52.

I have seen many good suggestions in this thread and also some interesting things to consider. I have made my best arguments by doing wine and food pairings. Many european wines have an affinity for food that goes beyond head to head tasting comparison. Unfortunately, most wines are not rated or tasted with food ignoring one of the major factors in my mind. Pick a nice high alcohol high point "Parker" type wine and a old world style wine and throw some food into the mix. The results will speak for themselves.

Rod,

I'd go with the 2000 Bois de Boursin too. The winery makes a very rich elegant style of wine that most poeple find yummy (pardon the technical terminology!) But look out for the 98 as it is really lovely.

I also agree with the last poster. Food and wine together make a good test. European wines are so darn food friendly, the combo will speak volumes.

Jim Lester

Rod,

I'd serve a bottle of 1998 Domaine Bois de Boursin Chateauneuf du Pape "Cuvee Felix". It is over 14% alcohol, very richly flavored, with gobs of ripe red fruit, and is untraditioanlly aged in small French oak barrels, but still displays that wonderful Southern Rhone earthiness. In short, my guess is the way to win over a CA wine lover is to find a European wine with similar palate impression, while also revealing the unique earthiness one often finds in European wines.

Jim Lester

Interesting, Jim, though I took a slightly different tack with a wine from the same producer.

"Some have noted that some vintages of some CdP can be very fruity,etc, and are likely to appeal to one with California tastes. I would work it from the other end. I would go for a real traditional CdP from a traditional year. So my recommendation comes down to Bois de Boursan, the regular bottling, not the cuvee Felix which is made for the American market. And I would go for the '99 which is still on some shelves, because it is very traditional and never shut down."

Good call OW, I agree. I was thinking about the last time I served the Felix. It was to a CA wine lover who knew nothing about French and was mocking them. The 98 blew his mind. And the oak added a note of familiarity for him. He now has gone into So. Rhones with a vengence and is loving it. The richness of CdP is easy for CA lovers to cozy up to.

Jim Lester