Open Mike: California Barbera.

Had a Russack Syrah this winter that tasted more like Pinot Noir. I guess Pinot Syrah can go the other way, too?

WTN: 2003 Deaver Amador Barbera

It has slight oak aroma. IMHO Barbera's have more of a tendency to give an Oak aroma than a varietial aroma. This one is much less fruity than the Dillian or Gold Hill I had last week. Ok I will out myself. It has a ripe character. The acid is barely there. There is more tannin taste than acid. I really love low acid wines. It is less acid sour than the Montevina Barbera 03 I have open now too. Ok the Deaver is ripe at 15.2%. Maybe it is the influence of alcohol talking, but I think a good or great wine is one that has integrated flavers. I like this barbera, albeit ripe because all tastes are in proportion and so soft, eg. fruit, acid, tannin and sweetness.

I have the winekeeper with multiple taps. Unless I am comparing one glass with another it is hard to really compare wines. In other words, drinking wines side by side gives different results than trying to compare from memory.

Now that I have a glass of 03 Montevina Barbera which is listed at 13.5%. I can tell that there is the very slightest amount of bret in the Montevina. It is is almost unperceivable. Maybe this makes it taste European. I am super sensitive to Brett. The 04 that Jenise reviewed had may have been cleaner. There is probably lot variations in these wines as well as the vintage difference. The 03 is probably more like 14.5% acl. There can be a + or - variation of 1% in acl. percent listed on labels by law. It definitely has more of an acid structure.

I think I have one two more barberas in my cellar. What the heck. I have learned something.

I think we are all learning too!! This thread is now on the 2nd page so fair interest eh. Thanks for posting! No hope of finding this one up here (smile).

It seems a popular variety as judged by the local shops are sold out of all except a couple brands. Went to the high volumne (bevandmor) all the local barbera's including Scott Harvey were sold out. Only one I could find in Placerville, CA wine shop was 05 Boeger. Shop owner said it was drinking young ... no wonder.

Here is another reason to stock the cellar...WineLove Open Mike.

Spent some time in one of NH's better state stores this weekend (Hooksett downtown for you locals) and could find nary a California Barbera! Did find a nice '00 Crozes Hermitage that I'll hit the focus tread with sometime later this week. Just hope to didn't spend too many summers in their unairconditioned warehouse!

Spent some time in one of NH's better state stores this weekend (Hooksett downtown for you locals) and could find nary a California Barbera!

Carl, it's no surprise that California Barberas are rare in NH since they're not what you could call plentiful in CA. The last time I looked at a California crush report, the amount of Barbera fruit out there was something like a sixth of the Zin harvest or an eighth of the Cabernet harvest. On the charts, Barbera is small enough to get lumped into the "Other" category. Also, of what little Barbera that there is, most of even that is not grown in what are known to be "quality" wine areas but rather in the "volume" areas (read "Central Valley"), where the vast majority would disappear into mass-market blends. Add it all up and in the the overall scheme of things, varietal Barbera from CA is quite rare.

Have to say that this WTN is written with an empty stomach and I have not tasted any food for hours. I guess this should be a CWTN. Cocktail WTN.

Illuminare is a startup winery run by recent Fresno State Grad. I guess that is what you do when you graduate from wine college. You go out and buy a few ton of grapes and make wine at the winery where you are working. That is what this guy did. Now he has his own brand.

The wine is very good. It has a slight oak aroma. Barberas don't seem to have much varietal aroma. It has real good fruit extraction. The fruit is grape/blueberry grape/boysenberry. I am biased and I am not ashamed to say as a man...I like fruit. It has nice natural, soft, and peppery tasting acid (How about another adjective). The acid and dryiness are in great balance. There is a definite tannin structure on the finish, but it is also soft. This what the local barberas can be like. Fruit forward wine with an acid and tannin finish that catches up with the fruit. It would not surprise me if the grapes are from the Cooper vineyard in Amador.

2004 David Coffaro Dry Creek Valley Barbera, 75% barbera, 20% sangiovese, 5% zin. 14.2% alcohol.

Very dark red wine. Shy nose of sour red fruit. Smells acidic. Tastes even more so! This is not one of Dave's easy-drinking fruity wines. Right out of the bottle, it's almost painfully tart with an overt flavor of tartaric acid. There's some juicy fruit character trying hard to compete, but it barely fills the mid-palate before being soundly trounced by the acidity. Any trace of oak and any heat from the alcohol are completely overwhelmed. Over a couple of hours, it calms down only slightly. On day two, after sitting with the screw-cap on overnight, it's starting to balance out a bit. The tartness recedes enough to let a bit more of the fruit out to the fore and it goes very nicely with a sausage risotto. I can start to get a slight sense of astringency, so maybe there really is a bit of tannin there.

This one was a bit of a surprise. I'm used to Dave's wines being very friendly in their youth and this one did not fit that mold. Don't know if it's just this wine or if he's changing his style.

I also have to say that when I have a wine that tastes this strongly of tartaric acid, I can't help but think that maybe it was over-acidulated during the winemaking process. That's not really fair as I have never had a wine that I knew had been subjected to such treatment, so I have no idea whether I could recognize it or not. But I can't get away from that perception.

Mike

I also have to say that when I have a wine that tastes this strongly of tartaric acid, I can't help but think that maybe it was over-acidulated during the winemaking process. That's not really fair as I have never had a wine that I knew had been subjected to such treatment, so I have no idea whether I could recognize it or not. But I can't get away from that perception.
Mike

Mike, I know that some here would claim to be able to detect when a winemaker has overdone the addition of acid but frankly I'm dubious about that. As I'm sure you're aware, tartaric acid is the predominant acid in grape juice and wine. Since naturally occurring and added tartaric acid are chemically identical, I would be difficult to convince that there is a palate that can somehow tell the difference.

That said, of course, high levels of alcohol - 14.2% in this case - imply ripe fruit, so it's fair to be suspicious when acid is also high. On the other hand, Barbera is famous for its acidity and even Italian Barberas sometimes have highish alcohol along with the typical acid. Bottom line in case of your Coffaro: who knows?

Mike, I know that some here would claim to be able to detect when a winemaker has overdone the addition of acid but frankly I'm dubious about that. As I'm sure you're aware, tartaric acid is the predominant acid in grape juice and wine. Since naturally occurring and added tartaric acid are chemically identical, I would be difficult to convince that there is a palate that can somehow tell the difference.

That said, of course, high levels of alcohol - 14.2% in this case - imply ripe fruit, so it's fair to be suspicious when acid is also high. On the other hand, Barbera is famous for its acidity and even Italian Barberas sometimes have highish alcohol along with the typical acid. Bottom line in case of your Coffaro: who knows?

Yep. I actually kinda doubt that Coffaro would have done that, but unless he wants to tell me I'll never know.

Mike

Correct me if I am wrong, but manufactured tartaric acid can oxidize. The slight oxidization makes it taste different than natural tartaric acid in grape juice.

Lots of great info on this Open Mike. I have found an interesting Barbera d`Asti, forumites should I post here or start a new thread?

My wife and I finally got around to opening the 2004 Boeger Winery Barbera the other night.

From El Dorado County, this California Barbera is a bruiser in terms of alcohol content at 15%.

Nose: plums, black cherries; mocha emerged over time.

Palate: Initial flavours of sour cherries and nutmeg, gave way to mocha and tar over a couple of hours.

Despite the high alcohol, my wife and I found it well balanced. There was a little bit of warmth, but it was still very easy to drink.

My father-in-law brought this back from a visit with his sisters in California. Unfortunately, it's not available here, as I'd gladly drink this again.

Correct me if I am wrong, but manufactured tartaric acid can oxidize. The slight oxidization makes it taste different than natural tartaric acid in grape juice.

Tartaric acid is tartaric acid, whatever the source. Chemically speaking, C4H6O6. Whether "manufactured" or "natural", it is exactly the same thing and behaves in exactly the same way.

I also have to say that when I have a wine that tastes this strongly of tartaric acid, I can't help but think that maybe it was over-acidulated during the winemaking process. That's not really fair as I have never had a wine that I knew had been subjected to such treatment, so I have no idea whether I could recognize it or not. But I can't get away from that perception.

Mike

Barbera is the most acidic red wine grape I have even encountered, which makes acidification extremely unlikely. De-acidification would be more like it, even in CA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but manufactured tartaric acid can oxidize. The slight oxidization makes it taste different than natural tartaric acid in grape juice.

You're wrong. Tartaric acid is tartaric acid, no matter the source. Mother nature doesn't care where the atoms came from. Once they are arranged in a molecular structure, they act like every other identical molecule.

I had some excellent Renwood Barbera Reserve from the early 90s. I'm not sure they still make a reserve.

Right now, the best CA barbera is made by Steve Clifton at Palmina Winery. Jim Clendenen makes the next best under his Il Podere dell' Olivos label.

Its not the nature of the molecule that we are arguing about. It is the treatment. Extract Tartaric that sits around in drums is exposed to more air than natural tartaric in grape extract and therefore can oxidize more. Or perhaps there is some other impurity (in the harvested tartaric acid) that we are tasting. tartaric acid used in winemaking is manufactured via the lees from winemaking, right.

The Renwood wines near where I live a year ago all seemed to oddly have the same acid taste no matter the variety of grape.

The old reserve Renwood made by scott harvey was very good. I went back to your message and looked again. You said "had." On first read I thought you said you had some in the Cellar. That would be a fun WTN.

It was suggested I post this here as well.
Tom

I have, of course, followed Amador Barbera from the very start. I'll share some history.
Cary Gott started making Barbera around 1974 or '75. Like all the wines he was making then, it was damned deliscious stuff at a great price. He was even putting some up in hlf gals (these were the good ol' days..pre-metric). DarrelCorti (he was, of course, the impetus for Cary to plant Barbera) served one of these first ones to a visiting Italian winemaker from the Piedmonte; who pronounced it the finest Barbera he'd ever tasted. He also made some Special Selection Barberas in the '76-'80 time frame afore he left Montevina. Only one Barbera in all Calif has achieved the stature of those SS Barberas.
When ScottHarvey started the Renwood label, he also made some pretty exceptional Barberas as well. Though, to tell the truth, they had a fair % of Zin therein. He even made one yr a GrandPere Barbera w/ selection of Barbera from the vines in that vnyd. Again, its authenticity may be a bit suspect. But it was mighty fine wine, whatever it was. Alas, I've not yet tried his Barberas under his own label.
I don't think the world has seen Barberas as great as those since then, Italy or Calif. Just my opinion.
The assertion that Barbera is the great/ideal grape for Amador/Shenandoah?? Better than Syrah or Zin?? I wouldn't crawl out on that limb myself...especially w/ all the people out there wielding chainsaws!!
Probably the greatest red wines I've had, in terms of world-class wines, have been Syrahs from Scott and Bill Easton. The ShenandoahVlly terroir seems (like in Lodi and SantaLuciaHighlands) to trump varietal character. I find a great deal of similarity in the flavors of Zin, Syrah, Barbera from Amador, the varietal character adding only subtle nuances. If anything, the natural acidity of Barbera gives it a small leg-up on the other varieties in the area. I expect it will continue to just be a niche wine up in Amador....a very good one in the right hands...but still the marketplace will keep it a niche wine.
Tom

The Amador Vintners are organising a Barbera tasting in February, at Sobon, I believe, as part of a larger event. I don't know if there are any tickets left...

Its not the nature of the molecule that we are arguing about. It is the treatment. Extract Tartaric that sits around in drums is exposed to more air than natural tartaric in grape extract and therefore can oxidize more. Or perhaps there is some other impurity (in the harvested tartaric acid) that we are tasting. tartaric acid used in winemaking is manufactured via the lees from winemaking, right.
.

Rod, two things. First, wineries that employ chemicals - potassium metabisuflite would certainly be one and tartaric acid would be another common one, at least in the Sierra Foothills - are very careful to keep fresh supplies. They're just not that expensive in the overall scheme of things and it's not worth spoiling good wine with old chemicals. Second, tartaric acid in particular is extremely stable - in fact, stored at room temperature, its shelf life is pretty much infinite. So it really doesn't "oxidize" in any significant way, it has to get really hot (we're talking 170 C/ 340 F here) before it breaks down. As we've said, from a chemical standpoint, once it's in the wine, tartaric acid is tartaric acid, whether from juice or from powder in a drum. Bottom line, whatever it is you're tasting in common between Renwood wines, it's not likely the result of tartaric acid addition. Maybe it's that famous Amador terroir that Tom wrote about trumping varietal character, maybe some common thread in Renwood's winemaking - but not likely tartaric acid addition.

Ok if it is not oxidization then could it be something more akin to unnatural mix of acid types tartaric versus citric or malic? Or an unnatural concentration of tartaric acid. It is true that it easy to taste tartaric if it is added after primary fermentation.

I think you Europhiles will like this one. Scott Harvey claims he makes wine in the European style. His grandather has a vineyard planted in the 1930's in Amador. This wine is 14.5% alc.

The aroma is oak and something earthy but not fruity like some of the other barberas I have had. What fruit there is is slight cherry. Honestly I am not sure I have the varietal aroma of Barbera on file yet. Similarly, Syrah to me captures oak aroma and therefore sometimes it is difficult to find the varietal character.

This wine has a serious lemon acid profile. It is difficult to find much sweetness. The earthiness and tannin mix on finish.

It is called J & S Reserve. I paid $29.99 for it. According to the winemaker notes the vineyards used were Harvey, Manby and Spinetta.

A couple of years back I hosted a “Barbera” tasting. The one Barbera I did find from California (I must admit this did take some effort) was a Shenandoah Vineyards Rezerve 2002 Barbera.
TN Ripe black cherry, berry, and plum on the nose and palate. Nice structure and balance, pleasant and lingering aftertaste. (!5) Average score 15.8, rank #1 (Composition 90% Barbera; 10% Zinfandel
The other Barberas
• Barbera d’Alba, 2003 La Sera Barbera “IL Cielo”; Produced by Marco Monchiero; Bottled by Cantina Giacomo Ascheri; Imported by Matt Brothers, Armonk, NY (avg score 14.35, rank #3)
• Barbera d’Asti, 2003 Rive Barbera; Bottled by Castel Boglione, Araldica Cooperative; Imported by Vias Imports, NY, NY (avg score 15.4, rank #2)
• Barbera d’Alba 2002 Gepin; Estate Bottled by Rocca Albino; Imported by Micheal Skurnik Wines, Syosset, NY (avg score 13.
• Barbera di Monferrato, 2002 Marchesi di Barolo Maraia Barbera Minferrato; Bottled by Marchesi di Barolo, Barolo, Italy; Imported by Palm Bay Imports, Boca Raton, FL (avg score 11.6)
• 2001 Gaiana Barbera d’Asti Superiore; Bottled and produced by Malgra’ S.p.A Mombaruzzo, Italy; Imported by Matt Brothers, Armonk, NY (avg score 14.1)

Salute