What is the allure of Bordeaux?

Joy Lindholm said,

" I work at a restaurant with a 98% French wine list (the rest from Spain/Basque country), so we have quite a nice selection from great importers like Dressner, Charles Neal, Martines, and the ones I listed before."

That sounds great. I have some former business associates in Nebraska that would absolutely love a restaurant with a wine selection like that one. Which restaurant do you work at? I would like to give them the name so they can find this gem.

Are you the Sommelier at the restaurant?

Absolutely - it is called Le Bouillon. We'd love to have them come in - please have them introduce themselves to me if they do come. I'm the bar manager there.

Thanks Joy! If that is close to M's Pub, I really like that neighborhood.

I took a peek at the Le Bouillon menu and wine list. Very nice and affordable. I will pass the name along to the people I know and encourage them to visit.

Yep - we are less than a block from M's Pub, in the old French Café space. Thanks for the referral!

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but still wanted to give my thoughts. I actually have come to disagree with the perception that there is no Bdx that is both good and cheap. I have had a lot of excellent Bordeaux for under $15. Basic Graves, Entre-Duex-Mers, and the the lesser Right Bank ACs all offer the same kind of QPR as Cotes du Rhone, in my opinion, provided Bordeaux is your thing. And if you want a compelling, age worthy Bordeaux at a reasonable price, those do exist: try Chateau Haut Beausejour, St. Estephe, particular the 2009 or 2010.

On to the bigger question of why continue to drink Bordeaux when there is now so much quality wine at good price points from all over the world. For me the answer is simple: because no wine is as intellectually stimulating as Bordeaux. Even in off years, the classed growths give you a wine you can ponder.

On to the bigger question of why continue to drink Bordeaux when there is now so much quality wine at good price points from all over the world. For me the answer is simple: because no wine is as intellectually stimulating as Bordeaux. Even in off years, the classed growths give you a wine you can ponder.

Now I'll come at this thread from the other side of the critical perspective. Again, I think this is largely a function of what you are familiar with and what you have developed a relationship with.

Plenty of arguments for Burgundy/Barolo being the more intellectually stimulating wines because there are so many details to analyze due to all the minute vineyard differences and the smaller margin of vintage error due to the monocepage.

But at the end of the day these are all great wines and claiming that one is 'more intellectual' than another seems to be an exercise in losing perspective.

But at the end of the day these are all great wines and claiming that one is 'more intellectual' than another seems to be an exercise in losing perspective.

I don't disagree. All I meant was that for me Bordeaux is the most intellectual, and that that is one of the reasons that some people are drawn back to Bordeaux again and again. But I certainly wasn't asserting that anyone should prefer Bordeaux for that reason. For what its worth, Barolo is one of my favorite red wines, and I would a lot of Burgundy in the cellar if it wasn't so bloody expensive.

I should probably add that I am not in any way expert on Bordeaux. I got away from it for many years, primarily because of the three factors already cited: skyrocketing costs on what I had been drinking, the lackluster charm of much of what replaced that, and the difficulty of matching my cuisine preferences with Bordeaux wines.

A couple of visits to Bordeaux, some assorted wine samples sent me by Planete Bordeaux (an agency created to promote Bordeaux AOC and Bordeaux Superior AOC), and further research locally with purchases and supplier tastings to gauge what was available;;;and I came away with an entirely different and highly favorable opinion of what Bordeaux had become.

For me, it's as much about white wines as red, and the current state of affairs for white wines in Bordeaux is lovely; they've done away with much of their sad, characterless and insipid whites in favor of fresh, lively, crisp and aromatic whites (the whites of Graves, Pessac, and the Entre-Deux Mers (depending there on location/soil) can be astonishingly good, with all the nerve and vivacity one would want. (G by Chateau Guiraud, a bone dry white from a good Sauternes property, is a steal of a wine, both inexpensive and tasty as hell.)

The sweeties, of course, are great. They simply don't figure all that prominently in my own drinking preferences, thassall.

The reds are better than ever, overall, for both drinkability and QPR. Are there Parkerized monstrosities? Sure. But there are quite a few (of the thousands of grower/producers in Bordeaux) that are not thusly influenced. And Bordeaux is so large and complex from a terroir point of view that it produces a wide range with lots of choices for even the most finicky of drinkers.

On the other hand, if you don't like cassis in your red wine, you're prolly out of luck.

[Jenise]

All I meant was that for me Bordeaux is the most intellectual, and that that is one of the reasons that some people are drawn back to Bordeaux again and again. But I certainly wasn't asserting that anyone should prefer Bordeaux for that reason. For what its worth, Barolo is one of my favorite red wines, and I would a lot of Burgundy in the cellar if it wasn't so bloody expensive.

Ditto, all the way down the line. I actually started to use the word 'intellectual' in my initial response, but I failed at that moment at finding the right words to explain it, so I backed it out. Other wines make me rapturous, other wines seduce and cause the need to savor, but nothing else seems to quite light up so many parts of my brain as does Bordeaux. Clearly others are not so taken or are similarly taken with another type--all fair--but I know in my case it wasn't choice, it wasn't exposure or something anyone else I knew was doing and so one could presume I caught some overspray, however unaware I was of it. No one I knew drank Bordeaux, no one. It's more like it's something in my personal chemistry: me and that bottle in the markdown bin at Albertsons that day were somehow a perfect match.

Interesting turn in the discussion.

Of course no wine is "intellectual". We all, I think, understand that, but struggle with the right word.

Certain wines do stimulate me, and stimulate my analytic abilities specifically. Other wines operate on a distinctly sensual level. The best wines do both. And like anything else the triggers are different from wine to wine.

I can understand why Bordeaux--not just Cabernet Sauvignon usually, but certain Bordeaux blends---can compel the idea of an intellectual response. Such a wine is both bold but balanced, compelling in its complexity, evocative of a particular blend of varieties in harmony.

However, I can also understand the same sense of massive complexity in Syrah and Syrah-based blends, Pinot Noir, and Riesling. Those wines also---correction, the best of those wines---stimulate both intellectual and sensual responses. For different reasons.

Of all the beverages, wine is the one that is most capable of that intellectual/emotional trigger.

The problem I would say is that because of man’s allure with the Bordeaux region of France in the past the so called “Bordeaux Blend” has now become “universal” in the world of wine (the grape varieties that could call Bordeaux “home” are some of the most widely distributed).

Salute

Other wines make me rapturous, other wines seduce and cause the need to savor, but nothing else seems to quite light up so many parts of my brain as does Bordeaux . . . . It's more like it's something in my personal chemistry: me and that bottle in the markdown bin at Albertsons that day were somehow a perfect match.

Jenise, you and I must get around to sharing a good bottle of Bdx someday, we have such similar tastes and philosophies. I agree completely: there is just something about Bdx for me, something I'm hardwired to appreciate. I became a wine lover largely in a vacuum, but my first tastes of the 2000 vintage (released around the same time I was getting into wine) and it was "the start of a beautiful friendship." Later I discovered my two true loves in wine, Brunello and Sauternes, but red Bdx is the reference point I always come back to.

And even now, there's a huge difference between my love of Brunello and my love of Bdx. Brunello I drink because it makes my spirit sing, and I like it mature, so I make a point to cellar some, but I don't actually follow it as systematically as I do Bdx. My heart will take Brunello whenever it comes my way, but my brain needs there to be Bdx in the cellar.

[Jenise]

Other wines make me rapturous, other wines seduce and cause the need to savor, but nothing else seems to quite light up so many parts of my brain as does Bordeaux . . . . It's more like it's something in my personal chemistry: me and that bottle in the markdown bin at Albertsons that day were somehow a perfect match.

Jenise, you and I must get around to sharing a good bottle of Bdx someday, we have such similar tastes and philosophies. I agree completely: there is just something about Bdx for me, something I'm hardwired to appreciate. I became a wine lover largely in a vacuum, but my first tastes of the 2000 vintage (released around the same time I was getting into wine) and it was "the start of a beautiful friendship."

Pinot noir is to me as brunello is to you, and the thrills can come from just about anywhere or any stage of maturity. It's the top-down convertible ride in the country vs. Bordeaux's luxury sedan. I agree--we must taste wine together some time. Next time we point Fritz east on highway 90, I'll make sure we have some good bottles on board and time to stop.

Btw, received an email this morning from a friend who has the identical Bordeaux complex you and I have and no idea that we are otherwise having this conversation. He and his wife shared an 04 du Tertre last night, about which he said: " It had sturdy bones with its sexy earth, that touch of feminine perfume Margaux often bestows to the earth. I know '04 was not a banner year, but the imperfections of "off" year Margaux often provide a kind of demimonde-like character. There is just nothing that can talk of depths just out of the range of consciousness like a Bordeaux can."

I love that last line and bring it to Hoke's attention as well as yet another way of attempting to characterize "intellectual".

There is just nothing that can talk of depths just out of the range of consciousness like a Bordeaux can."

Thanks, Jenise. Nicely expressed idea. And that's the kind of thing that keeps me interested in wine above all other beverages.

To me, the (limited, because of disappointments) recent samples from the "lesser right bank" have almost all been over-ripe fruit bombs. If I am going to drink a 14.5% abv cherry vanilla cola wine, I will at least support the local economy and buy a Napa or Sonoma wine!

Maybe your samples weren't representative of the region?

Oh... and I admitted that. But still...in reading the wine press I have run across a lot of enthusiasm for "sufficient ripeness" and "hedonism" and it made me leery of trying more! . Even at the modest price points in question.

One solution would be, of course, to buy based on importer (as mentioned above). I remember liking quite a bit a young Bordeaux AOC at Terroir SF, so...

Brian, are you thinking of something like this?

2011 Reignac Grand Vin de Reignac - France, Bordeaux, Bordeaux Supérieur (12/23/2014)
This is a well made wine crafted for gracious drinking when young. Colour was a dark carmine and the nose showed red rose with a polished patina. Palate was medium bodied and well balanced with good depth of brambly fruit, smooth acidity, a polished and slightly sweet wood patina and enough grip on the finish. Why don't I fell more entuisiasm? In spite of extravagant claims on the back label about "great terroir", I think that the charms of this wine shout "man made" at present and could come from anywhere in the world, but maybe with more time the claims for terroir specificity will become more plausible. Good, though, but not special QPR at €16.

I have tasted Reignac. I don't think it is really over blown per se, but this tasting note nails the "manufactured" quality of the wine, to my recollection. It may be wine geekery, but "confected" comes to mind. A French Cartlidge and Brown?* Luckily, even in California it was pretty cheap!


* An industrial wine product made in a tilt up building in an industrial park in American Canyon, "The Gateway to Napa Valley".

I mentioned above the local availability of Gruaud-Larose's second wine, Sarget, and I bought and opened one. Did it do something to replicate the allure of the grand vin?

2008 Sarget de Gruaud Larose - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien (1/14/2015)
I have rarely bough Bordeaux second wines but, when I saw this on offer at about €18, I thought that this was a chance to test the theory that second wines offer much of the appeal of the grand vin at an affordable price without having to wait a good decade before opening. My last bottle of Gruaud-Larose itself was 2001 and it was a real winner last May. This Sarget '08 did not approach that. Colour was a still quite youthful deep red. The nose started of very reticent with a little fruit (strawberry) and a lot of oak, albeit refined oak; with some exposure the fruit opened up somewhat but the oak remained obvious. The medium bodied palate showed some very pretty fruit with discreet sweetness and decent acidity but the refined oak presence was as marked as on the nose and added a dry touch to the finish. I am not sure that there is enough substance and backbone for the oak to integrate well with time, which it usually does with a left-bank grand vin. But even if it does, for me it defeats the purpose of earlier accessibility. Only quite good.

Posted from CellarTracker

For oak to be so dominant seems...odd....Tim, given how expensive, I am told, new oak is!!!!

For oak to be so dominant seems...odd....Tim, given how expensive, I am told, new oak is!!!!

Brian, many people may find that level of oak acceptable or even agreeable. It was not that strong dry caramel spine which made me want to pour the rest of the bottle down the the drain with, say,Tres Picos but it smacked of artifice and was too much for my full enjoyment at this stage. Most young grand vin, which I would age 10++ years before opening, is like this but I was hoping for more discretion in a wine supposed to be approachable young.

I think that châteaux like Gruaud-Larose have decent enough margins to allow them to use new barrels across their whole production, if they want to, and then there are chips.

Makes sense, Tim!

Tim wrote:
I have rarely bough Bordeaux second wines but, when I saw this on offer at about €18, I thought that this was a chance to test the theory that second wines offer much of the appeal of the grand vin at an affordable price without having to wait a good decade before opening.

That’s one way at looking at Bordeaux “Second label” wines. Another way is - here’s “number two”, wait till you taste “number one”!!!


Salute

Allure is the interesting word..

It has to be a pre-requisite that Merlot/Cab blends are a favourite.

If another variety, say Pinot, is your love then Bdx won't have the allure.

But, as already mentioned in this thread, many of the world's wine regions make a 'bordeaux blend', and often they're excellent and reasonable priced, so if you like such blends there's plenty of choice,

For me the allure of Bordeaux is down to

- claret was the wine that gave me the wine bug
- it was the first wine region I visited (1)
- it's got a long long history: estates that were famous for for their wines 150 years ago are stilll making wine
- its not just reds, I like the dry whites and the sweeties too (2)
- there is a difference between the different appellations, and the appellation system in bdx is simple to understand.
-

(1) in the '70s. I visited Burgundy the following year - never got the same attraction forburgundy nor PN nor Chardonnay
(2) tho very rarely buy bdx dry whites, NZ SB is first choice at our house

Not sure if I should create a new thread or append this here. For Northern Californians, Nugget Markets has been featuring Bordeaux in a store display, and I picked up a moderate??? ($30) 2008 Clos Manou from the general Medoc AOC.

While some commentary on the web mentions "New World" style, and the early drinkability may be due to that, this wine to me seemed pretty definitively Bordeaux in its dominance by more...savory...and earthy flavors. Certainly some cherry and cassis fruit, but the wine is dominated by those leather and cigar box and earth flavors. I enjoyed the wine, as did my friend Joe, but Joe's wife Donna was less certain.

Here is my note on the `02 Leoville Barton I tasted at the weekend>

I found this wine ready to drink, had a 2hr decant. Was it a light year? I thought well balanced. Easy to drink, blackcurrant, soft tannins, hint of spice, fair length. Pulled from the owners cellar, so generous eh.