Varieties vs Varietals

There is no "right" or "wrong".

...and everyone is a star, even those who can't tell the difference between correct and incorrect usage. It's the new way to raise our little ones.

I don't want to defend the abuse of "varietal", but I think I see how it happened. It is the result of regarding, e.g., Cabernet Sauvignon as a wine, which many seem to do. if you do that, Cab Sauv is a varietal wine, which then gets shortened to varietal. I think it is OK to use varietal in that sort of shorthand, but the GRAPE Cab Sauv is still a variety.

I agree with Otto - there is no right or wrong in language. But I don't think that means we should all just accept changes we don't like. Let's kick up a fuss and see if we cannot influence it. The more it is discussed, the more likely I think writers are to use the established meanings - and actually many still do.

Here's a level-headed essay about what we're really talking about here: http://korystamper.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... riptivist/

Here's a level-headed essay about what we're really talking about here: http://korystamper.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... riptivist/

I read that piece a while ago, and I don't think I am talking about the same thing.

My concern is not that language changes, I know it does, and change can't or shouldn't be stopped. I just think that confusion should not be the basis for change, because if it is, the language may change but at the expense of communication.

What should we say to those who write "should of" when they mean "should have" or "it's" instead of "its"? Should we explain the possessive or should we leave it alone and allow the change to proceed so that the possessive becomes just another confusion? My answer is to explain it rather than to allow it to die.

And, of course, we have the ever-entertaining David Foster Wallace on Tense Present: Democracy, English and the Wars Over Usage

Carrion,
Mark Lipton

I don't want to defend the abuse of "varietal", but I think I see how it happened. It is the result of regarding, e.g., Cabernet Sauvignon as a wine, which many seem to do. if you do that, Cab Sauv is a varietal wine, which then gets shortened to varietal. I think it is OK to use varietal in that sort of shorthand, but the GRAPE Cab Sauv is still a variety.

Steve,

You are repeating the point I made earlier in the thread. But in the New World, Cabernet Sauvignon is a wine, whether regarded that way or not; varietal labeling is the norm.

And, of course, we have the ever-entertaining David Foster Wallace on Tense Present: Democracy, English and the Wars Over Usage

Carrion,
Mark Lipton

Sigh.

I was listening to a historian last night who said something like, "...they came out of the wilderness and navigating the terrain is now very difficult."

I winced at both the sentence and the predilection to place history in the present tense. I'm unsure which suffers by that--understanding the past or figuring out what's happening today.

And, of course, we have the ever-entertaining David Foster Wallace on Tense Present: Democracy, English and the Wars Over Usage

Carrion,
Mark Lipton

Last time you engaged in this type of discussion (Elsewhere), you presented the counter-article, didn't you?

And, of course, we have the ever-entertaining David Foster Wallace on Tense Present: Democracy, English and the Wars Over Usage

Carrion,
Mark Lipton

Last time you engaged in this type of discussion (Elsewhere), you presented the counter-article, didn't you?

So I did, Hoke (nice memory!). Perhaps I'll add that in to the mix once the fur has flown a bit more

Mark Lipton

Heck, I was born and raised in Indiana. As long as I don't mispronounce or misuse every third word I'm at the high end of the Hoosier bell curb.

Is that Wallace article available in any other format than a PDF? My computer gets a bit temperamental with longer PDFs and it's now been trying and failing to open it for a half hour.

Does it help to do a right-click on the link and "Save target", Otto? It does for me sometimes. Then you do a straight download without your machine also needing to worry about displaying it.

Here ya go, Otto. It's an HTMLized version of the article, so loses some of the wit of DFW's formatting, but the words are the same (scroll down about a page to see the actual start of the article.

Mark Lipton

Sam Platt:
Heck, I was born and raised in Indiana. As long as I don't mispronounce or misuse every third word I'm at the high end of the Hoosier bell curb.

I think that was supposed to be bell curve or is that another Hoosierism.

I think that was supposed to be bell curve or is that another Hoosierism.

Thanks for keeping this bumpkin on the straight and narrow, JC.