NYTimes: Asimov On The Natural Wine Movement

[David M. Bueker]

Now, old woman, you are accused of heresy on three counts! Heresy by new oak, heresy by high alcohol, heresy by grafted vines and heresy by sulfur - FOUR counts! Do you confess?

Bring...the soft tannins!!!

Now, old woman, you are accused of heresy on three counts! Heresy by new oak, heresy by high alcohol, heresy by grafted vines and heresy by sulfur - FOUR counts! Do you confess?

Bring...the soft tannins!!!

Not the microbullage! Anything but that!!!

Cardinal Fang

[David M. Bueker]

You are accused of heresy on three counts: heresy by brix, heresy by water (we'll get to the bit about calling it "Jesus units" later), heresy by yeast, heresy by oak...four counts!

Bring us...the Racking!

CONFESS!!!

I've never been a big fan of Monty Python.

[David M. Bueker]

I've never been a big fan of Monty Python.

Somehow that does not shock me.

It certainly says something that this thread has so drifted (degenerated?).

I'm sick of the artificial hierarchy of wines based on varying degrees of dogma... I just want to drink delicious wine... it's the taste that matters.

I agree, it's just that some people seem to think deliciousness can be (at least loosely) defined by certain (often fairly rigid) criteria.

you would think that at best, natural wine was a brand-new concept and, at worst, a new link to Al Qaeda. The word natural itself is under fire.

There's truth to that, though it makes perfect sense that the word "natural" would be "under fire" since the term's so relative.

German Riesling, made by the guy who owns the estate and farmed the vines that had a cultured yeast fermentation and a sterile filtration... Sicilian Nero d'Avola made by the woman who owns the estate and farmed the vines that fermented with no added yeast and wasn't filtered... They were both delicious, and both made by a small winery, owned by the winemaker, who put their heart and soul into making the wine.

That's essentially, I think, what Asimov is getting at in his paragraph that begins "Frankly...". IMO, he puts it well (as usual).

Alcoholic fermentation by yeast and bacteria is a natural and IMHO a fascinating and wonderful process. Some might think of it in very simple terms- as a process where a microbe(s) converts sugar into alcohol, CO2 and other by-products. But in reality it is much more complex, where hundreds and even thousands of elements, chemical compounds, enzymes, and microbe organisms could be involved. If allowed to proceed “naturally” the result would be “fermented wine” becoming vinegar.
Ever since ancient times when man attempted to “duplicate” what occurred “naturally” he became an “interventionist”.

Salute

Alcoholic fermentation by yeast and bacteria is a natural and IMHO a fascinating and wonderful process. Some might think of it in very simple terms- as a process where a microbe(s) converts sugar into alcohol, CO2 and other by-products. But in reality it is much more complex, where hundreds and even thousands of elements, chemical compounds, enzymes, and microbe organisms could be involved. If allowed to proceed “naturally” the result would be “fermented wine” becoming vinegar.
Ever since ancient times when man attempted to “duplicate” what occurred “naturally” he became an “interventionist”.

With all due respect, Victor, this is exactly the sort of response that the estimable Mr. Asimov cited in his article as unhelpful. It ignores the radical changes that have taken place in winemaking within the past 40-50 years, breaking with a tradition that extends back several millenia with only the occasional technological innovation. In saying this, I am not implying in any way that modern technological innovations are inherently worse (or better) than e.g. the introduction of the oak barrel or cork stopper were in their days. And bear in mind that the whole concept of "industrial" winemaking didn't exist until the latter half of the 20th century (can we credit/blame Ernest and Julio for this? Are they rightly considered the Henry Fords of wine?)

Mark Lipton

Alcoholic fermentation by yeast and bacteria is a natural and IMHO a fascinating and wonderful process... If allowed to proceed “naturally” the result would be “fermented wine” becoming vinegar.
Ever since ancient times when man attempted to “duplicate” what occurred “naturally” he became an “interventionist”.

With all due respect, Victor, this is exactly the sort of response that the estimable Mr. Asimov cited in his article as unhelpful.

I actually think the most unhelpful and problematic part of the discussion on "natural" and "non-interventionist" wines are those words themselves. "Natural" is an entirely relative concept, and wine can never truly be made without intervention, so both terms are completely unhelpful in describing what they are intended to describe. I can forgive that, since I understand that when most people use the term "natural wine", they usually mean wine that's been made with some combination of the following: avoidance of inorganic pesticides/herbicides in the vineyard, avoidance of cultured yeast of malolactic cultures, reduced use of SO2, reduced use or elimination of refrigeration and/or mechanical devices (e.g. pneumatic presses), avoidance of fining and filtration, etc.

breaking with a tradition that extends back several millenia with only the occasional technological innovation... And bear in mind that the whole concept of "industrial" winemaking didn't exist until the latter half of the 20th century

It's true that winemaking didn't exist on the kind of "homogenised industrial" scale it does now until relatively recently in wine history, but technological innovation has always existed (even placing your wine in buried amphorae is a form of temperature control that is due to technological innovation). I don't think it's so much a question of technological innovation as it is of which technological innovation - which is the whole problem, because different people define "natural wine" in different ways with regards to technological use.

Before the 20th century “industrial wines” might have been called “forged wines”.
What is the “modern” definition of “industrial wine”- a wine produced for economic reasons and “consistency” from bottle to bottle and year to year?

Over thousands of years it is man’s “innovations” that improved the “quality” of the wine. The technique of transferring wine from one vessel to another using a siphon (gravity assisted) was probably first looked at by many as “high tech” or even “magical”.

Salute

[Robin Garr]

What is the “modern” definition of “industrial wine”- a wine produced for economic reasons and “consistency” from bottle to bottle and year to year?

To me it is more about corporate intent. A producer owned by a multinational corporation and making wine in very large quantities strikes me as more likely than not to be focused primarily on the quarterly balance sheet and thus to value "safe" practices over the kind of risk-taking behavior that can lead to greatness (or failure) in an artisanal producer driven primarily by creativity and who can ignore the pleas of his financial advisors in the hope of achieving something memorable.

When you get beyond this simple dichotomy, definitions get fuzzy. But in general, I know an industrial producer when I see one, and while I might expect good, drinkable wine from the better corporations of the genre, I have little hope of having my socks blown off by its product.

[David M. Bueker]

To me it is more about corporate intent. A producer owned by a multinational corporation and making wine in very large quantities strikes me as more likely than not to be focused primarily on the quarterly balance sheet and thus to value "safe" practices over the kind of risk-taking behavior that can lead to greatness (or failure) in an artisanal producer driven primarily by creativity and who can ignore the pleas of his financial advisors in the hope of achieving something memorable.

When you get beyond this simple dichotomy, definitions get fuzzy. But in general, I know an industrial producer when I see one, and while I might expect good, drinkable wine from the better corporations of the genre, I have little hope of having my socks blown off by its product.

All well and good, but the vast majority of wine purchasers are not in the game to have their socks knocked off. If they were the Lapierre Morgon would sell for the price of DRC!

[Robin Garr]

All well and good, but the vast majority of wine purchasers are not in the game to have their socks knocked off. If they were the Lapierre Morgon would sell for the price of DRC!

David, you took me a little more literally than I intended.

I was trying to express a relatively non-angry definition by drawing the line between corporate production driven by bean counters and artisanal production driven by crazy geniuses. This sets up a binary, of course, where the real world is more like a bell curve, but hey.