Burgundy Premier Crus

[David M. Bueker]

None of the resources I typically use list a single 1er cru in Pouilly-Fuisse. The French resources list climats but no crus.

Could a Premier Cru and Village Burgundy wine have almost the same label (Village and a vineyard name)?

Salute

ok, and i'm quoting the handout i got at the tasting - "The 'climats' - the ultimate expression of 'terroir' in Burgundy. Specific to the Burgundy region the 'climats' are delimited geeographic areas benefiting from specific natural and identified conditions. through their speificities, the 'climats' provide each Burgundy appellation with a unique, remarkable organoleptic personality. More than 600 'climats' classified as premier cru make up the Burgundy vineyard." so, the climats are not villages; but i can't tell from this whether the climats include lieu dits or are the same as the 1er cru.

anyway, macon villages is a regional appellation and could not have a 1er cru regardless.

[David M. Bueker]

Could a Premier Cru and Village Burgundy wine have almost the same label (Village and a vineyard name)?

Salute

Yes. Daniel Bocquenet's Nuits-St-Georges Aux St. Julien (a village wine) is an example of this.

Or numerous producers in Meursault have Le Clous or Les Tillets, both lieu dits but not 1er crus.
Maybe a French speaker could clarify, but I think (a) climat and lieu dit are basically synonyms but (b) the term lieu dit in general usage is taken to mean "named place" that is not a 1er (or in a few cases named parts of GC vineyards).
Good point re Macon-Villages. What about the Macon-(name of village) wines- are Macon-Charnay, Macon-Uchizy, Macon- Milly-Lamartine considered village level? The only village level Macons I know of are Pouilly-Fuisse, St Veran, and Vire-Clesse,and as noted I don't think there are any 1er there.

Doesn’t the special specific vineyard sites (Grand Crus, and Premier Crus) lay within the boundaries (possible even split between two or more) Village (or basic) appellation? In “poor” years do Premier Cru wines have to be released as 1 er Cru wines? I would assume they could be released as Village wines or if they’re blended with grapes from within the boundaries of the basic appellation they should be able to release the wine as a basic appellation wine.

Dale wrote;
What about the Macon- (name of village) wines- are Macon-Charnay, Macon-Uchizy, Macon- Milly-Lamartine considered village level?

Now my brain hurts, thinking about this too much! I always read that as a Macon wine from (name of village). Can’t Macon-Charnay be thought of a “sub” appellation of the larger basic appellation of Macon?

Salute

Doesn’t the special specific vineyard sites (Grand Crus, and Premier Crus) lay within the boundaries (possible even split between two or more) Village (or basic) appellation? In “poor” years do Premier Cru wines have to be released as 1 er Cru wines? I would assume they could be released as Village wines or if they’re blended with grapes from within the boundaries of the basic appellation they should be able to release the wine as a basic appellation wine.

Yes, that does happen. One common scenario is that a producer combines wines from various 1er vineyards and labels the wine "1er Cru" with no other specification other than village (e.g. Volnay 1er). I've also heard of producers declassifying 1er Cru wine in weak vintages, though there's obviously a big financial hit involved. More frequently, I suspect, the juice is sold off to negoce outfits so as not to besmirch the good name of the grower.

Mark Lipton

[David M. Bueker]

More frequently, I suspect, the juice is sold off to negoce outfits so as not to besmirch the good name of the grower.

Except that most of the notable negotiants are significantly more selective than they used to be. They are trying not to besmirch their good names.

We might also add that in some cases it is the negotiant that owns the “top sites”. Negotiants supply wines at all levels even Grand Cru.

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

We might also add that in some cases it is the negotiant that owns the “top sites”. Negotiants supply wines at all levels even Grand Cru.

Salute

Indeed - though for most sites there are so many owners that one can pick and choose based on preferred style.

Could a Premier Cru and Village Burgundy wine have almost the same label (Village and a vineyard name)?

Yes, but if I recall correctly, for an unclassified vineyard (lieu dit or climat) the vineyard name has to be in a smaller typeface than the AOC name. And of course the words "Premier Cru" won't be on the label.

-Paul W.

Comblanchien...never gets any respect! And rarely gets mentioned. But Paul is correct, of course.

We might also add that in some cases it is the negotiant that owns the “top sites”. Negotiants supply wines at all levels even Grand Cru.

Salute

Indeed - though for most sites there are so many owners that one can pick and choose based on preferred style.

Gentlemen,
I certainly agree that among the elite outfits (Drouhin and Jadot, natch, and we'll throw in Faiveley and Bouchard out of generosity ) there is little incentive to buy substandard juice, but there are plenty more negociants still out there who have lesser holdings and fewer scruples (B&G, anyone?).

Mark Lipton

[David M. Bueker]

I have not even seen a B&G wine on a shelf in years.

I have not even seen a B&G wine on a shelf in years.

You just don't shop in the right places, big guy! If you like, I can send you a mixed case to sample

Mark Lipton

[David M. Bueker]

I have not even seen a B&G wine on a shelf in years.

You just don't shop in the right places, big guy! If you like, I can send you a mixed case to sample

Mark Lipton

Pass - thanks!