As good as it gets?

I know you didn't want to go this route, but since you opened the door, I would piggy back on others who agreed that this is less about wine and more about your relationship. And since both are moving/evolving entities, I can imagine that you don't need to be so fatalistic just yet! Things will change over time.

Either way, as others have said, lots of great wine to be found under $30 and even under $20 if you look hard enough. "Merely" getting a hold on Beaujolais and German riesling would fill up plenty of time with so many great producers available.

But, I guess you've already thought about this. So, vent on!!

Financial, but not an actual financial limitation, but rather an imposed one, even where the means exist. But I don't want to dwell on that, because its nothing anybody here can solve.

Ryan,

I honestly take much more pleasure in uncovering tasty inexpensive wines than I do in drinking high-end "name" wines. It seems that expensive wines almost never fail to disappoint me on some level. I have cut my budget back significantly, thanks to the good 'ol economy, and I actually find that I am having more fun now seeking out cheaper wines. There is lots of tasty juice out there under $20.

My advice would be to allocate yourself $10/week for wine, but don't spend it every week. After six weeks you will be able to buy three to five solid bottles.

Definitely don't abandon the cause because of a tight dollar.

Ryan, Hi…

Forgive me in advance if I seem to be playing armchair psychology but in all that you write I sense two vastly different components to what you call your restrictions. The first of these is indeed economic in nature but the second relates more to what some might call an "inward journey".

As to what I am calling an inward journey, let me make the comparison between a crush and a true love. Many of us have started on various paths (e.g. the arts, the dance, the opera, wine or a love affair) by a more or less sudden falling in love. That falling in love is something that moved us deeply on our first involvement but with time seemed to level off then demanding either to be dropped or taken to a deeper level. Now "dropping" our passion/crush does not mean giving it up completely. It may, however, mean that any of the above examples simply become a valued part of our daily lives. It may also mean that one needs a certain distance before attempting to take that passion to a deeper level and a deeper commitment.

Indeed in this we are not talking about those wine snobs or Casanovas who love nothing more than boasting about their conquests and will go on doing so for years, the wine or the love object no longer being the major issue, that becoming the ability to boast about it. In a sense, a very nouveau riche attitude towards love, wine, the arts… What we are talking about are people whose love seems to wane because it has reached a limit.

If indeed we have reached that limit, the passion may be gone but that neither does nor should ban us from the more comfortable pleasures that the object of desire may give. In the case of wine, for example, that might take us to a place where wine is a much appreciated, regular part of our lives. As a personal example, I was once quite infatuated with modern dance. I have lost that infatuation. It has not turned into a lifelong love but it has become a still much to be enjoyed part of my life but without either the great pain or great pleasure that it once triggered. The same can be true of wine.

On the other hand, one may move from infatuation/passion and "the crush" to a more subdued love, one that need not drain us but that gives us comfort and warmth and what may be the most valuable thing in one's life – "quiet pleasures", those pleasures sometimes filled with joy and excitement but more often something we have taken into ourselves as a better part of our lives.

With regard to the second issue, that of financial limits, to paraphrase Mr. Spielberg: "You are not alone". Very few of us have or will ever have the kind of economic freedom that allows us to spend all we want on any of the things we love – that including not only wine but our life partners, our children, our parents and even on ourselves. In an odd way that may be a good thing. I cannot help but wonder, for example, if we were to have that freedom whether it would all become a bit mundane.

I am delighted to read in one of your posts that your income will be increasing. That will make life far more pleasant in many ways. That you will not be able to devote much of that increase to wine is acceptable depending on other needs and desires. I have only two suggestions that may help…

Consider first the possibility of finding a local newspaper that has no wine columnist and of proposing a regular column to them. That will not pay much, especially when you first start out, but if you have a regular column it will get you invitations to trade wine tastings and to wine exhibitions - at first in your own neck of the proverbial woods and later both other parts of the USA and abroad. At first you will have to pay your own plane fare and hotel but the access to events such as VinItaly, ViniSud and VinExpo will give you access to tasting many of the truly great wines. As your name becomes established you will even be offered travel accommodations and, of course, invitations to Bordeaux barrel tastings. And, of course, if the name you develop is a good one, you will also be receiving samples for tasting. You do already know enough about wine to write about it intelligently and as you continue writing you will continue learning. Keep in mind of course that your wine writing will probably never be a "full-time job" but it can be one that offers vast challenges and pleasures that are parallel to your academic career.

Weigh as well the possibility of explaining to your wife that wine is much a passion with you, akin to some people's desire for say a Lamborghini or a home in a certain neighborhood and that passions need to be fed. In such an explanation be prepared of course to show how this passion will impact on other aspects of your lives together.

Very Best
Rogov

Ryan,
Where you are is most certainly not "As good as it gets". You're looking here, not for advice about your wine experience, present and future, but you're looking, at what seems to me to be a significant turning point in your life, for ways to think about what you might want to do in the future.

Of course nobody can answer what you want to do in the future except yourself.

Yet, you're a grad student and judging from the pic, you're in something technical. I sympathize - I'm a mechanical engineer or was until I retired (OMG!) 11 years ago. What you have to guard against is analysis paralysis, and its related evil, over-planning. Your family budget will be increasing noticeably. Why not allocate a chunk of that to "WTF money"? Put it in a stash, plug something in there each payday, and you and your wife can decide at intervals when the mad genius seizes you to do something. Maybe wine, maybe something your wife likes, one hopes something you both enjoy.

John

Hi Ryan -

I guess my first question (which you certainly have no obligation to answer) is whether you are disappointed in the wine you are unlikely to be able to drink or frustrated over the fact that now that you finally have the means to enjoy more of this wine, it is being denied to you for somewhat arbitrary reasons.

If the former is the issue, than I would say that you should be able to continue to do well. You've done well in the past and there continues to be no shortage of good, inexpensive wine out there.

If the latter is the issue, then I would say that you should bide your time. Although you may not be able to change anything right at this moment, things may well change in the future for reasons that aren't apparent now. If you remain passionate about wine, I have to think you will find a way to satisfy that passion. Maybe not immediately, but you have much time ahead of you.

Back before I had kids, I used to spend a lot of time hiking in the Sierra. That was a passion of mine and it's something I've only done a couple of times in the last ten years. The time spent going to soccer games and getting the kids to camps and dealing with their sleepovers and etc. pretty much leaves me no spare days to ramble around the wilderness. I know that in some ways, I'd be a happier and more balanced person if I could do that. But I can't right now and I don't despair (although I'll admit there have been times I've really resented this situation). Assuming I'm still physically able to do so, I plan to take up that hobby again once my younger daughter's activities no longer occupy so much of my time. (I may even be able to get going on it sooner, if I can get my daughter interested.) Either way, though, I look forward to being able to indulge this passion again sometime down the road. I hope that the same goes for you should you decide to step away from the wine world for a time.

Hi Ryan -
I guess my first question (which you certainly have no obligation to answer) is whether you are . . . . frustrated over the fact that now that you finally have the means to enjoy more of this wine, it is being denied to you for somewhat arbitrary reasons.

Bingo!

I have indeed have many great experiences, in fact more than someone my age can expect, and that's not what I want more of. The modest increase would allow me to explore just a little bit all of the things that most of you here take for granted (if I started rattling off the appellations I've only had once or twice ever, and then the ones I've never had, a number of you might die of shock). I don't want fancier experiences, I just want more experiences, and the ability to explore what I want to explore (of course there are store tastings, and I do take advantage of those when possible, but the focus of the tastings at the principle store in town has become rather narrow, and frankly I'd like to able to actually drink the wines I'm interested in, not just taste them - and I don't think anyone can fault me for wanting to just enjoy the wines rather than merely evaluating them). And I am being told not to expect even a modest reward for 7 years of grad student slavery. I'm not even expecting any significant change in lifestyle - just his one small thing.

But the reason I put this in the context that I did is because I see the possibility of not being able to get to where I want to go in the "journey." So I am evaluating how and if to continue the journey under those restraints.

And to put all this in context, all I am hoping for here is an increase of ~1/80 (one eightieth) of the upcoming increase in my salary.

But, my wife and I have such a good relationship, that save the usual bumps, continues to grow with time, and nothing is worth endangering that. But at the same time, this situation is merely an instance of an underlying issue that we will need to resolve if we want that growth to continue.

I can see why you're a bit bummed out about the situation.

I would imagine there are lots of generous wine loving people in your neck of the woods. Joining a tasting group (as well as going to tastings at retail outlets) might be a good way to scratch your itch about tasting more expensive/famous wines in the near future. If you go to an offline dinner, then it isn't really money from your wine budget, it's money from your entertainment budget!

One other note. I've been lucky to attend more than a few offlines, and while I agree that occassionally there are bottles that can amaze, even stun you, those experiences are rare, and it's much more common (at least for me) to wonder what the hype is all about. For example, when I tasted my first DRC, I was very underwhelmed. A vertical of Hillside SS only made me glad i didn't waste money on this wine - not my style. Now, I grant you that there may be some sour grapes here, as I don't spend huge amounts of money on any one wine, and thus unconsciously I may not 'want' the big ticket items I taste to blow me away, but I like to think I have an 'open' palate and can enjoy a $10 as well as a $200 dollar wine. Blind tasting is great in this regard. So your belief that spending more money on wine will immediately lead to increased enjoyment of the wine isn't necessarily a given. Putting the effort into truly understanding your palate, and finding wines in your price range that you really enjoy, can be equally satisfying. And buying less but more expensive wine is another good option that someone mentioned.

Is there any item that your wife likes to spend 'extra' money on? Shoes, handbags, etc.? If you go over your budget and see what is spent by you both, that might give you leverage into upping your wine budget. You should each have the same amount of 'fun' money each month, and you can decide to spend it on whatever you want. Or perhaps give up some other spending (e.g., cell phone) and use it for wine? Or get a half TAship and use it for fun money?

Finally, as others have mentioned, things change quickly: while it's hard to see that far ahead, in two years things could be very different.

A further thought......whatever your income level you will be taking vacations from time to time. Consider planning those vacations around wine regions that interest you. Not huge wine areas (all of France or even all of Bordeaux) but say of Right Bank Bordeaux, of Chianti Classico country, of Montalcino. Such vacations will be fine for both the wine lover and the non-wine lover for every nearly hamlet in France, Italy, Spain and other European regions will hold things of broad aesthetic, culinary, social and even religious interest.

Such trips need not be made a la granda. That is to say in nearly every wine region you will be able to find relatively inexpensive boarding facilities. Better yet, you will find the bistros and wine bars populated by the locals and there at a reasonable price be able to dine very nicely indeed, to learn the local wine-food matches, and of course, to talk with dozens of people about their place, their food, their wine.

Even the planning of such trips can offer pleasure for one has to refer to books and the internet to learn about the locales, the wines that most interest you, the history of the region.... Such trips of course offer equal pleasure to wine lovers and those who prefer countryside, the villages, the churches, the monuments, the museums and whatever else may be offered. Indeed, no reason why one's spouse has to accompany us on every winery visit, for there is much to be done outside of wine in these areas, those to be enjoyed either on one's own or together.

Two pieces of advice in planning such trips. (a) Never, never, never go on a group tour for you will be seeing what one tour guide or another deems important and being received at wineries in a most superficial way and (b) be certain to let wineries know in advance when you are arriving. That almost always winds up in a warmer welcome and a broader tasting. Also, if you have made long-term arrangements, be sure to phone the day before your visit to be certain that they are expecting you.

Best
Rogov

But, my wife and I have such a good relationship, that save the usual bumps, continues to grow with time, and nothing is worth endangering that. But at the same time, this situation is merely an instance of an underlying issue that we will need to resolve if we want that growth to continue.

Ryan, let's not beat around the bush here (it seems to me that others are skirting around the issue here). The issue here is that you feel that you are being denied the continued exploration of wine by your wife due to what you believe are extreme limitations on spending. If I am wrong, I apologize, but this is the very strong impression that I get from what you have said. If this is true, then you have some issues of resentment that you may one day need to deal with. Take it from me: Deal with this now, don't wait for years for the resentment to build. If you have the good relationship with your wife that you say you have, then an honest, open discussion with your wife right now is in order to keep it that way.

Best,
Norm

I can see why you're a bit bummed out about the situation.

I would imagine there are lots of generous wine loving people in your neck of the woods. Joining a tasting group (as well as going to tastings at retail outlets) might be a good way to scratch your itch about tasting more expensive/famous wines in the near future. If you go to an offline dinner, then it isn't really money from your wine budget, it's money from your entertainment budget!

There is no entertainment budget.

One other note. I've been lucky to attend more than a few offlines, and while I agree that occassionally there are bottles that can amaze, even stun you, those experiences are rare, and it's much more common (at least for me) to wonder what the hype is all about. For example, when I tasted my first DRC, I was very underwhelmed. A vertical of Hillside SS only made me glad i didn't waste money on this wine - not my style. Now, I grant you that there may be some sour grapes here, as I don't spend huge amounts of money on any one wine, and thus unconsciously I may not 'want' the big ticket items I taste to blow me away, but I like to think I have an 'open' palate and can enjoy a $10 as well as a $200 dollar wine. Blind tasting is great in this regard. So your belief that spending more money on wine will immediately lead to increased enjoyment of the wine isn't necessarily a given. Putting the effort into truly understanding your palate, and finding wines in your price range that you really enjoy, can be equally satisfying. And buying less but more expensive wine is another good option that someone mentioned.

I am the organizer of my tasting group, and yes, I've arranged some pretty grand experiences. But I've emphasized that those are not the experiences I'm after. The value of bottle has little impact on my enjoyment - the issue here is that I need a bit more money so that I can have ready access to the regions/appellations I want to drink and explore. For example, right now, I'm focusing on Spain, and I would like to try a Priorato, to experience it, and learn what it is like. But there are no Priorato's in town for under $20, and I can't afford that price range. And suggestions of buying online and shipping do not help, because shipping eats up so much of my budget that it only makes sense if I buying something nice for the cellar, or buying in quantity for, e.g., a tasting.

It should be noted that my wife is supportive of me having friends over for wine dinners, but those are with friends who are willing to provide the wine if we provide the food, because they understand that I can't really contribute. And that's another reason I need more wine money, because at some point I'd will need to be able to return the favor to all these nice people sharing all this nice wine with me. Can't pull the grad student card forever (nor do I want to).

Is there any item that your wife likes to spend 'extra' money on? Shoes, handbags, etc.? If you go over your budget and see what is spent by you both, that might give you leverage into upping your wine budget. You should each have the same amount of 'fun' money each month, and you can decide to spend it on whatever you want. Or perhaps give up some other spending (e.g., cell phone) and use it for wine? Or get a half TAship and use it for fun money?

See here is the crux of the issue: my wife is hyper-practical and pragmatic - her "splurges" are when household items and clothes are on sale, and they are either clearly justifiable from the general budget, or she uses her own allowance, which is indeed equal to my wine allowance. She makes almost no inscrutable purchases. And at some level, she just doesn't believe one "needs" to spend that much on luxuries. Her approach to surpluses or windfalls is always "you should consider what practical things you can do first, and if that leaves nothing for fun, so what." Now, it should be said that the reason we live as well as we do on the budget we have is because my wife is such a thrifty shopper, and for our overall standard of living, I have no complaints. But she has admitted to being a kill-joy at times.

And frankly, there are no non-essential budget items we could give up. We only have a absolutely no-frills pre-paid cell phone. The only leverage I might have is to say I'll give up drinking coffee (I buy whole bean and grind/brew at home - we're not talking Starbucks - frankly what I make at home is better anyway), but dear lord man, lets be humane!

Finally, as others have mentioned, things change quickly: while it's hard to see that far ahead, in two years things could be very different.

That may be. But if two years from now I'm still stuck at the allowance I have currently, I think I really will just give up wine.

A further thought......whatever your income level you will be taking vacations from time to time. Consider planning those vacations around wine regions that interest you.

I appreciate the suggestion Rogov, but we don't take vacations. We travel 4 times a year to visit family, and for the occasional wedding, and none of those even remotely close to any wine region worth bothering with. Believe me, I take the opportunity when I can - when we went to Colorado for a wedding last summer, I figured out that there was a Colorado wines tasting room nearby, and I went there. But CO is not CA.

Ryan -

Did you marry someone of German stock from the Midwest?

Just asking....

Back before I had kids, I used to

This is my go to cavaet! If you want to know what personal and financial privation is have a few bairns! Don't get me wrong, kids are wonderful and all. If you're not a fan of money and free time.

And related to one of the suggestions about, if it's true partnership you should have your mad money and she should have hers. If she wants to buy mops and such, well that's on her. My wife and I each have our exclusive hobbies that we piss away...er...calculatedly spend our "allowance" on.

Ryan -

Did you marry someone of German stock from the Midwest?

Just asking....

Yep. Eldest daughter of a Kansas wheat farmer.

Ryan -

Did you marry someone of German stock from the Midwest?

Just asking....

Yep. Eldest daughter of a Kansas wheat farmer.

Come home tonight, turn the lights down low, light the candles, put this on the stereo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LzBGVsP8XQ

Then sneak the crates of Petrus through the back door.....

Ryan, Hi...

You are painting an increasingly difficult situation - no vacations other than family visits, no entertainment allowance in the budget and no personal allocations within the budget. Leaving wine aside for a moment, each of those is an important part of life and it does sound as if you and your wife are somehow ignoring those needs. Life must be far more than mere necessities if it is to be an interesting and rewarding life. What of the theatre, the opera, the museums, trips to places that fascinate both of you? And indeed, it seems as if fine dining and fine food are far from the range of possibilities within those limitations.

Perhaps the questions that you and your wife must deal with are those concerning priorities and in particular those priorities beyond the necessities of life.

Best
Rogov

Ryan -

Did you marry someone of German stock from the Midwest?

Just asking....

Yep. Eldest daughter of a Kansas wheat farmer.

They grow 'em parsimonious out in those parts. Sez the husband of a Wisconsin girl.

I suppose all of this might make it sound like my life is miserable, but despite the fact that I am bummed out about this particular issue, there is a lot to be happy and thankful for. I have a wife who takes very good care of me (that's the upside of her being a Midwestern farm girl), and has supported me in every way necessary while I've been in grad school, and that has meant a lot of sacrifices on her part. And nothing, not wine, not anything, is worth damaging our relationship (but Norm, you're absolutely right). We live very well for our means (due in large part to her financial savvy), and in truth, I lack nothing that I need, and in the current economic climate, perhaps it's petty to be complaining about luxuries.

I hope it doesn't appear that I'm fishing for sympathy (or wine), but I am rather bummed about this, and needed some venting and perspective. Thanks for putting up with me. I think I'm starting to recover my equilibrium a bit.

She makes almost no inscrutable purchases. And at some level, she just doesn't believe one "needs" to spend that much on luxuries.

Seems to be a fundamental personality difference that needs to be addressed before it leads to resentment, Ryan. Your wife's thriftiness is quite admirable, but thrift and pleasure are not incompatible. It would appear that your budget will, in fact, allow for the occasional tipple, but your wife simply disapproves of your passion. Sit down with her in private and begin "Honey, I love and cherish you with all of my heart, but...". The issue will not resolve with time. It needs to be confronted with your spouse. Take it from a veteran of 24 years of marriage (to the same woman) who has been both confronter and confrontee, though fortunately we are both winos.

Good luck.

You have to figure out how to have fun with this hobby and not take it so serious. All of us have wine budgets but for me wine is about food and friends. Believe me I get more satisfaction out of a $8 tasty wine with a friend than I could ever with an expensive, contemplative bottle alone. Take your wife's advise....there are far more important things than wine. If I took it as serious as you seem to in your posts, I'd give it up for a while. Just my 2 cents.

Drew

If I took it as serious as you seem to in your posts, I'd give it up for a while. Just my 2 cents.

Hi Drew,

I think that many of us on the WLDG take wine seriously. I do. I agree that being serious about wine does not necessitate spending a great deal of money. From the posts it seems to me that Ryan is being forced to make a choice that he doesn't believe needs to be made. That speaks more to a relationship issue that needs to be addressed than it does to the depth of Ryan's passion for wine.

I try to be informed about wine and learn as much as I can and I enjoy it immensely but I don't take it seriously. My family's well being, my work and life's goals I take seriously. I would never think to let it come between by wife and I. The below definition does not echo my feelings towards wine.

se·ri·ous adj \ˈsir-ē-əs\
Definition of SERIOUS
1: thoughtful or subdued in appearance or manner : sober <a quiet, serious girl>
2a : requiring much thought or work <serious study> b : of or relating to a matter of importance <a serious play>
3a : not joking or trifling : being in earnest <a serious question> b archaic : pious c : deeply interested : devoted <a serious musician>
4a : not easily answered or solved <serious objections> b : having important or dangerous possible consequences <a serious injury>
5: excessive or impressive in quality, quantity, extent, or degree <serious stereo equipment> <making serious money> <serious drinking>

Drew

I try to be informed about wine and learn as much as I can and I enjoy it immensely but I don't take it seriously.

In all fairness, you take it seriously enough to post here!

I don't know that anything is wrong with taking wine 'seriously', i.e. devoting careful thought and study. Wine is a pretty beautiful and amazing thing, with all sorts of gustatory, historical, cultural, and scientific angles, all of which broaden our understanding of the human experience. All of that is certainly worth taking seriously if one is so inclined, much like it is worth taking film, literature, dance, pottery, spirituality, or any number of other pursuits seriously.

The real question is how much attention one devotes, and that will vary from person to person. I don't take wine as seriously as some folks around here, but I definitely take it more seriously than folks who don't even post here. It all depends on our personal circumstances. But it's certainly 'worth' taking seriously.

. . . . your wife simply disapproves of your passion.

Not true actually. She does understand that wine is important to me, and has not discouraged it per say. In fact she is casually interested in tasting the wines I drink. And she has a more acute palate than I do (owing to her being quite an accomplished home chef - we do actually both like to cook, and she understands that wine has a place in that). And she understands and supports us buying half a case to take to family over the holidays (albeit only because I can find very good wines at the outlet store for $5). And it is understood that when we get the house we'll be settling into long-term, I get to convert a closet into a proper cellar space. So she does understand. And it should be said that she has become more so over time. She doesn't believe its as necessary as I do (understanding that necessary is being understood in a relative sense here). Alcohol had basically no place in her family, and her mother's side are very nearly tee-totalers.

The real source of all this is that I had always believed that my modest means for wine would eventually improve, i.e., when my salary increased. And now that that is going to happen, she says "maybe, maybe not." And this distressed me. And if my mood gets thrown off in a certain way in can take me a bit to recover (any of you remember my distress at having unintentionally won an online auction for two bottles of '82 Gigondas last summer?).

But, there is hope - a second pass on the subject last night was less "no" and more "maybe." And that despite the fact that it now appears my salary may not being going up quite as much as I initially thought. There are certain issues where it takes her a while to get used to an idea (which is funny, because on others she's almost impulsive). And this is why I initiated the discussion now, while my raise doesn't take effect until January. It was just the amount of resistance I got to an proposition that I thought was trivial. And perhaps I was is something of a disruptable mood (I haven't been sleeping well, and that typically makes me a bit more emotional). Nonetheless, there is an underlying issue here. But I think its one I just have to be patient on. She is only doing what she feels is best for us.