Poll: Your preferred drinking (country of origin)

Managing without MSR Riesling, Barolo and Tuscan Sangiovese would be a terrible privation, but my choice has to be France for its timeless classics, for the strong personality, diversity and often good value of its different "country" appellations and for the rigour and individuality of its best vignerons.

Thanks for the feedback.

Results are pretty much as I expected (the exception was that I expected Germany and Spain to receive a slightly higher proportion than they did).

I'd miss wines from most of the countries on that list, but I'd easily choose France - for the incredible diversity, the quality at the top end, and even the QPR at the cheaper (and "artisanal") end of the spectrum.

For those who didn't choose France, I'd be interested to hear what your experiences and impressions are of French wine.

Thanks for the feedback.

Results are pretty much as I expected (the exception was that I expected Germany and Spain to receive a slightly higher proportion than they did).

I'd miss wines from most of the countries on that list, but I'd easily choose France - for the incredible diversity, the quality at the top end, and even the QPR at the cheaper (and "artisanal") end of the spectrum.

For those who didn't choose France, I'd be interested to hear what your experiences and impressions are of French wine.

I chose France but the huge diversity in Italy, from the best PG in the NE, to high end great agers from Piedmont, to all of the sangiovese areas and then, let's not forget the tremendous number of other wines in the south make Italy in my opinion the most interesting wine country. If I knew more about Italy and the access to their wines were better in the midwest I may have picked Italy.
Walt

For those who didn't choose France, I'd be interested to hear what your experiences and impressions are of French wine.

Well I choose Italy because my drinking between France and Italy, which is about 75-80% of my consumption is about evenly split, and nobody was giving the love to Italia. I love Italy for the diversity of it's grapes and for the dramatic landscapes in which grapes are grown, which, to me, beats the pants off of France's wine regions. Mind you, I love French wine, and both France and Italy to me can give quality for the money, even with a high Euro. Also, the Italian producers are easier to pronounce.

I can understand the Italian choice (especially for diversity). I should have written:

For those who didn't choose France or Italy, I'd be interested to hear what your experiences and impressions are of French and/or Italian wine.

I find Carl's comment interesting, for example:

Gonna stick my head way out and say that no other country with the possible exception of Italy has the diversity of wine that the USA has.

I just don't believe this statement.

Voted USA but was leaning toward Canada- would gladly trade everything west of the Mississippi to include Canadian Side of the Niagara Escarpment (but I'd sneak over to Howie's to get a taste of ESJ every so often).

I find Carl's comment interesting, for example:

Gonna stick my head way out and say that no other country with the possible exception of Italy has the diversity of wine that the USA has.

I just don't believe this statement.

I have very little experience of US wine, so let me just say that I am very sceptical about Carl's claim. What I would dispute is the implication that there is more diversity in Italy that France.

In whites France has an amazing palette of flavours ranging from unique Champagne and crisp Chablis to generous Mediterranean tones of CndP blanc, Château Simone, etc. Yes, Italy has diversity too between the Alpine whites in the North and Sicilian whites (only Grillo and Etna bianco have pleased me) but not, IMO, greater diversity and few would say the best of these white are on the same plane as France achieves.

In reds at the top level quality is on a par but again I think that France ranging from the lively and refreshing Loire Cabernet franc through to broodingly tannic Madiran in the South West and to richly generous CndP in the South has diversity which is certainly not inferior to Italy's range from Langhe Nebbiolo to Sicilian Nero d'Avola.

[David M. Bueker]

While I chose France (I could live on Champagne alone if I had to), I actually believe that the USA does have an incredible diversity of wines. Does it rank with Italy? Probably not, but the stereotypes about USA wines are not true at all. The wines are not all big, alcoholic, woody bruisers. Finger Lakes Riesling, Oregon Pinot Noir & Oregon Pinot Gris are three very quick examples of wine types in the USA that do not fit that mold (of course there are some monster Oregon Pinots, but it's hardly the rule), and you can also try great wines that are food friendly from Mendocino, California and even a few ( ) from Sonoma and Napa. There's a lot of great wine out there, but it just doesn't get the press that the big boys do.

I have very little experience of US wine, so let me just say that I am very sceptical about Carl's claim. What I would dispute is the implication that there is more diversity in Italy that France.

Tim,
Categorical statements are always difficult to defend, but I do think that there is some merit to the view that the diversity of wine in Italy is greater than that of elsewhere. It is true that, stylistically, France is every bit as varied as Italy or anywhere: dry to sweet sparkling, dry white, off-dry white, sweet white, rosé, light red to big red, even sweet red, hipster "natural" to Parkerized froot bombs . Where Italy stands out to me is in the dizzying assortment of "indigenous" grapes used to make wine there. Even including the fascinating wines of the Jura and the Arbois, I still cannot match that diversity of grapes with those in use in Italy.

Ever the contrarian,
Mark Lipton

Mark,

Just for fun, here is my take on the native red grape varieties which spring to mind from France and Italy capable of producing outstanding wines -

France

1st league
Cabernet Sauvignon
Pinot Noir
Syrah
Cabernet franc
Merlot (? 2nd but for Pomerol)

2nd league
Grenache
Mourvèdre
Tannat
Malbec

3rd league
Carignan
Gamay
Cinsault
Poulsard



Italy

1st league
Nebbiolo
Sangiovese

2nd league
Aglianico (almost 1st)
Corvina
Montepulciano
Nerello Mascalese (on Etna)

3rd league
Primitivo
Nero d'Avola
Negromaro
Dolcetto
Barbera
Refosco

Numbers are roughly equal when considering that Carignan and Grenache are, I think, also native to Sardinia and Sangoivese to Corsica under different names.

Of course, if you add in the fine results achieved in Italy from all the French grapes except AFAIK Gamay, Mourvèdre? and Tannat, you will give the varietal diversity prize to Italy.

When it comes to indigenous varieties, Victor tells us that Spain also has very many.

In native white grape varieties, IMO Italy has none in the first league to compare with Chardonnay, Riesling and Chenin blanc in France.

I would not put Gamay in third league and might raise Corvina to first league in Italy. Italy is said to have 700 indigenous grapes so I despair of ever having a thorough knowledge of Italian wines (or French or Spanish wines for that matter.)

Mark,

Just for fun, here is my take on the native red grape varieties which spring to mind from France and Italy capable of producing outstanding wines -

France

1st league
Cabernet Sauvignon
Pinot Noir
Syrah
Cabernet franc
Merlot (? 2nd but for Pomerol)

2nd league
Grenache
Mourvèdre
Tannat
Malbec

3rd league
Carignan
Gamay
Cinsault
Poulsard

Were it up to me, I'd promote Gamay to 2nd with a nod toward 1st, and I'd add Trousseau and Fer Servadou, but OK...

Italy

1st league
Nebbiolo
Sangiovese

2nd league
Aglianico (almost 1st)
Corvina
Montepulciano
Nerello Mascalese (on Etna)

3rd league
Primitivo
Nero d'Avola
Negromaro
Dolcetto
Barbera
Refosco

What about Lagrein, Grignolino, Sagrantino, Frappato (on Etna), Molinara or Canaiolo?

This is why I spoke of it being difficult to be categorical. Much hinges on what one considers "outstanding wines," does it not? Frappato might be totally unknown or dismissed as unworthy unless one has had a wine from Arianna Occhipinti or COS and Sagrantino might be dismissed if one doesn't have an appreciation for the wines of Paolo Bea. OTOH, had I not had a transcendent experience last year with a Marcaillac from Causse Marines, I'd never have added Fer Servadou to my France list.

When it comes to indigenous varieties, Victor tells us that Spain also has very many.

And that's certainly true, too.

In native white grape varieties, IMO Italy has none in the first league to compare with Chardonnay, Riesling and Chenin blanc in France.

But, for orange wine Italy has no equal! And let's not even speak of amphora-raised wines...

In the end, it's a fun parlor game, but hard to come to any firm conclusions,
Mark Lipton

Thank goodness this is a parlor game, the thought of it being real is too scary.

I think Tim's lists are pretty solid, with the usual quibbles (hey, I like Gamay more than Grenache).

Italy does have a great number of indigenous grapes.

But to me the choice (France) is clearer the more I think about it. Sure, Italy has some outstanding reds, and tons of good ones. US has (for my tastes) a few outstanding reds, and some good ones. But France has at least as many outstanding and good reds.

The deciding difference for me is the other categories:

Dry whites- white Burgundy from Chablis, Macon, Cote d'Or. Alsace Riesling (CSH!), PG, Gewurz. Rhone whites from Viognier, Marsanne, Roussane. Producers like Cotat and Dagueneau, Laville Haut Brion and DDC blanc, Huet and Closel, etc. I've had good US and Italian whites, but as a category France kicks butt.

Off-dry white- Vouvray demi-sec, some Alsace like ZH, Cazin Cour-chevreny, etc

Dessert wines- Sauternes, Loire, Alsace. I've had good Italian dessert wines, but nothing that compares to best of France. I've never had a great US dessert wine.

Sparkling. Hey, I like Prosecco, and have liked some Franciacorta. I've had some good US bubbly. But compared to the best of Champagne? Or for that matter the best of Loire bubbly?

I can't drink French wine with Pasta or Risotto.
I can't drink sparkling if I can't have Champagne.

What a dilemma.

What about Lagrein, Grignolino, Sagrantino, Frappato (on Etna), Molinara or Canaiolo?

Sagrantino was an oversight; I would put it as a strong member of 2nd League. I have had good Lagrein; say 3rd League.

Probably contrary to the norm, my choice of France actually isn't necessarily because of Bordeaux or Burgundy but where else would I be able to get my beloved champagne if not in, well... Champagne???

Nothing contrary about it! If I must be restricted to a single country for wine, it has to be the the one where Epernay is located.

And let's face it, when it comes to wine, the French invented the game. Their history of quality production goes back a lot farther than anyone else's, and covers a far larger geographic area and variety of grapes.

I've been debating about this for several days. As heartbreaking as it would be to give up Bordeaux and the Rhone, it would be even more heartbreaking to give up Tuscany. For diversity, quality, and the soul they embody, I must have my Italians.

I've been debating about this for several days. As heartbreaking as it would be to give up Bordeaux and the Rhone, it would be even more heartbreaking to give up Tuscany. For diversity, quality, and the soul they embodies, I must have my Italians.

I could not give up any of these regions. We are having rabbit with olives and tomatoes this weekend and HAVE to have a good Italian Sangiovese. On the other hand if I had no Bordeaux what would I drink with lamb?
Walt

I've been debating about this for several days. As heartbreaking as it would be to give up Bordeaux and the Rhone, it would be even more heartbreaking to give up Tuscany. For diversity, quality, and the soul they embody, I must have my Italians.

I could not give up any of these regions. We are having rabbit with olives and tomatoes this weekend and HAVE to have a good Italian Sangiovese. On the other hand if I had no Bordeaux what would I drink with lamb?
Walt

Barolo or Super-Tuscan would do nicely, I think. I actually consider Southern Rhone the best match for lamb.

But to me the choice (France) is clearer the more I think about it. Sure, Italy has some outstanding reds, and tons of good ones. US has (for my tastes) a few outstanding reds, and some good ones. But France has at least as many outstanding and good reds.

The deciding difference for me is the other categories:

Dry whites- white Burgundy from Chablis, Macon, Cote d'Or. Alsace Riesling (CSH!), PG, Gewurz. Rhone whites from Viognier, Marsanne, Roussane. Producers like Cotat and Dagueneau, Laville Haut Brion and DDC blanc, Huet and Closel, etc. I've had good US and Italian whites, but as a category France kicks butt.

Off-dry white- Vouvray demi-sec, some Alsace like ZH, Cazin Cour-chevreny, etc

Dessert wines- Sauternes, Loire, Alsace. I've had good Italian dessert wines, but nothing that compares to best of France. I've never had a great US dessert wine.

Sparkling. Hey, I like Prosecco, and have liked some Franciacorta. I've had some good US bubbly. But compared to the best of Champagne? Or for that matter the best of Loire bubbly?

Oh, I voted for France, too, Dale, and for many of the reasons you lay out here. Our white wine consumption is mostly focused on France, Germany and Austria and our red wine consumption even more on France. The reason for this latter is a combination of style and pricing: most of my favorite QPR reds are from France. If someone were to leave me a cellar full of aged Barolo and Barbaresco, I'd certainly change my tune, though!

Mark Lipton

Since I've been on CellarTracker I buy more French wine than any other area by a wide margin and I drink more Californian wine than any other region by a wide margin, but if limited to one area I would go with Italy. I can live without sparklingly, fortified or dessert wines easily enough, so it comes down having enough variety in red and white from daily drinkers to those "special" bottles. Italy does that for me. (caveat Vintage Tunina is my favorite white wine, but it has its detracters). My answer might have been different if the premox problem hadn't made a mess out of white burgs.

Probably contrary to the norm, my choice of France actually isn't necessarily because of Bordeaux or Burgundy but where else would I be able to get my beloved champagne if not in, well... Champagne???

Nothing contrary about it! If I must be restricted to a single country for wine, it has to be the the one where Epernay is located.

Indeed!

I used "contrary" in my first post just because I know that France is still generally most famously loved and acclaimed as the land of Bordeaux and Burgundy first and foremost, rightfully so for many reasons. Most wine lovers (or even non-wine lovers) will say one of those two names first when thinking of wine in France.

I also say "contrary" in my preferences just in regards to how obviously lopsided champagne is in terms of my wine buying, the bottles in my cellar and its percentage as part of my overall total of wine drunk. It's my experience that even those who love champagne typically have cellars that are 75-90% "normal" wines they love and champagne is always a treasured but "side category" of the cellar with a handful of favorite ones tucked in the back behind the "real" wines .

My cellar is actually the polar opposite look . It's really a "champagne cellar" with a handful of the "real" wines tucked on the side! Not that it's a big cellar or anything (it's always fun to dream it is however...). But even if the cellar were just ten bottles, nine would typically be champagnes in mine. It's just simply what I enjoy drinking the most and, I guess, find most "consistent" and enjoyable to drink as a whole. It's just the one wine (region) that has always specifically grabbed and allured me from the beginning.

So I'm always more likely to buy "repeat" bottles of a certain champagne I love because I know what to typically expect and, most importantly, know that I've liked it! I know that to many, such a focus and majority of bubbles in relation to still wines likely looks too "single-minded" and unadventurous. Which there's likely some truth to I suppose. It's not so much a voluntary attempt on my part to restrict my wine horizons but just more a case of "when you find what you do love, too much is always a good thing"... And I mean "too much" just in terms of its enjoyment as a hobby relative to other wines of course. LOL

Jeff

Well I am going to be a bit contrarian. My absolute favorite category of wine is southern Rhone. But for diversity I voted for New Zealand. For me I would not want to go without New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs, and not just Marlborough. I am finding some much to like across the board. I have access to taste such a variety as I sell wine for a living here in Oregon and have for 30+ years. I can still remember when we only had 10 wineries.