Beaujoulais and the question of "minerality"

I pretty much agree with what Tim wrote, though I am pretty gullible about the specific mineral composition of the soil manifesting itself in the wine (how directly, I am not sure). I don't see any relation between minerality and acidity. While people can use language any way they want, of course, it helps me organize my perceptions to confine terms like mineral and fruit to what is perceived by the nose, and acidity and sweetness to what is perceived by the tongue (while welcoming the blurring that takes place in the mouth). What Terry Theise wrote made instant sense to me - as communication - because he was comparing apples to apples: contrasting a preference for fruit with a preference for minerality. If he had compared a preference for fruit with a preference for acidity, it would it would have been like comparing apples to lemons . Worse, it would have sounded like a new world v. old world debate.

So the idea that Beaujolais is more often referred to as fruity than minerally makes sense because they are among the most fruit forward wines on the planet, backed (ideally) by a healthy dose of acidity. They can have mineral flavors, of course, but fruit is their most characteristic characteristic.

I don't see any relation between minerality and acidity. While people can use language any way they want, of course, it helps me organize my perceptions to confine terms like mineral and fruit to what is perceived by the nose, and acidity and sweetness to what is perceived by the tongue..

You find minerality on the nose!

Not quite sure I get that.

For me, one form of 'minerality' is the tingling sensation underneath the fruit, and that is definitely related to acidity.

I don't see any relation between minerality and acidity. While people can use language any way they want, of course, it helps me organize my perceptions to confine terms like mineral and fruit to what is perceived by the nose, and acidity and sweetness to what is perceived by the tongue..

You find minerality on the nose!

Not quite sure I get that.

For me, one form of 'minerality' is the tingling sensation underneath the fruit, and that is definitely related to acidity.

I agree with Oswaldo that I get minerality on the nose but there is also a tactile element.

In the original post Ed referred to "obvious chalk and salinity on the palate to "rain on stone" on the nose". These terms I am very comfortable with. Rain on nose (petrichor) is a beautiful descriptor.
Flint also - in its rock form it is a micrcrystalline quartz that has a specific smell when struck with a hammer - of course flint also refers to the flint you use to make a fire. Talc is another one that gives a lovely tactile feel - in its pure form it has no smell but in cosmetic form it does. Suplhur is a very powerful smelling mineral and I do get sulphur, sulphate and sulphide smells on the nose of many wines. But "mineral" on its own is a confusing one. You just have to look at coments so far.

I downloaded the Terry Thiese catalgue. It is 182 pages. Would someone like to suggest which page to look at.

Cheers,
Sue

I don't see any relation between minerality and acidity. While people can use language any way they want, of course, it helps me organize my perceptions to confine terms like mineral and fruit to what is perceived by the nose, and acidity and sweetness to what is perceived by the tongue..

You find minerality on the nose!

Not quite sure I get that.

For me, one form of 'minerality' is the tingling sensation underneath the fruit, and that is definitely related to acidity.

An easy example is the smell of wet stones...

In the original post Ed referred to "obvious chalk and salinity on the palate to "rain on stone" on the nose". These terms I am very comfortable with. Rain on nose (petrichor) is a beautiful descriptor.
Flint also - in its rock form it is a micrcrystalline quartz that has a specific smell when struck with a hammer - of course flint also refers to the flint you use to make a fire. Talc is another one that gives a lovely tactile feel - in its pure form it has no smell but in cosmetic form it does. Suplhur is a very powerful smelling mineral and I do get sulphur, sulphate and sulphide smells on the nose of many wines. But "mineral" on its own is a confusing one. You just have to look at coments so far.

I downloaded the Terry Thiese catalgue. It is 182 pages. Would someone like to suggest which page to look at.

Cheers,
Sue

Tim's post suggested page 8.

[David M. Bueker]

Sue - Numbered page 8 of the catalog (not page 8 of the pdf file).

If one can talk about fruit, floral and animal flavours, etc., I really don't see why one should be derided for referring to mineral flavours. This corresponds to a very real perception with many of us in many wines, even though the borderline between perception of fruit acidity and minerality is somewhat blurred.

I am sceptical about the theory that minerals in the ground translate directly into the same mineral tastes in the wine, which is what Andrew Jefford appears to think, but that won't make me stop referring to minerals when I perceive them in a wine's taste profile whilst taking a bit more care to distinguish between acidity and mineral perception.

I agree. There currently isn't any evidence to suggest minerals from the ground are literally expressed in the smell of the wine, but plenty of people smell aromas they associated with the smell of wet minerals.

I think minerality is a character that tasters perceive both on the nose AND retro-nasally, so it can relate to (i) only the aromas, and/or (ii) the taste, which is doubtless influenced by acidity, pH, phenols, etc.

Isn't it also true that in "Geology 101" you are taught to identify rocks by virtue of their taste? At least I remember the awkward Geology labs where we spent licking rocks and trying to identify them (little did I know then how useful this would be!).

But I do understand the skepticism about minerality.

Nevertheless... while obviously I can't say for certain that the taste of petrichor (or other mineral tastes) has a 1:1 correspondance with the mineral content of a given terroir, based on my experience with wine, I'd be surprised if there was not at least a correlation between the terroir and this smell (which I get so often in Rieslings, as well as in red wines from Loire).

But I'm sure this argument has been had many times here before...