Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36011
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11880
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
James Roscoe
Chat Prince
11063
Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm
D.C. Metro Area - Maryland
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36011
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
James Roscoe
Chat Prince
11063
Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm
D.C. Metro Area - Maryland
David M. Bueker wrote:Well that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish James. Ponder, ponder...
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36011
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
James Roscoe wrote:David M. Bueker wrote:Well that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish James. Ponder, ponder...
Isn't it the underlying issue though? The two questions seem to be related to me, ie, the merits of aging and how long to age.
James Roscoe wrote:the merits of aging and how long to age.
Rahsaan wrote:James Roscoe wrote:the merits of aging and how long to age.
Not sure what you're asking. Seems kind of general. It really depends on the specific vintage/cuvee/bottling. And of course on personal preferences.
James Roscoe
Chat Prince
11063
Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm
D.C. Metro Area - Maryland
James Roscoe wrote:Tim, I like your answer. I am in the midst of recession living. So I buy lots of ten dollar wines really meant for immediate drinking, typically CdR or similar blends. Robin often comments that such qpr-type wines might benefit from short-term aging. He usually says a couple of years. Does it depend on the blend, the producer, the vintage or a combination of all three, or should we just buy the wines and enjoy them for what they are at the time of purchase? I have gone both ways on this.
James Roscoe wrote:Does it depend on the blend, the producer, the vintage or a combination of all three...
Ian Sutton
Spanna in the works
2558
Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm
Norwich, UK
Rahsaan wrote:James Roscoe wrote:the merits of aging and how long to age.
Not sure what you're asking. Seems kind of general. It really depends on the specific vintage/cuvee/bottling. And of course on personal preferences.
Dale Williams wrote:I'm not sure there is that much debate going on here.
Is there anyone who thinks the majority of wine is helped by aging? I don't think so.
Is there anyone who thinks that "serious" versions of red Bordeaux, Burgundy, Rioja, and Piedmont don't benefit from aging? Again, I don't think so.
One can maybe get less consensus once you get to New World wines (except Dunn!). But since we have mostly discussed OW, there seem to be only a few disagreements:
1) Loire. David doesn't think Muscadet benefits from aging. Others (inc. me) do. I've enjoyed '88, '89, 90, and 95 Briords and/or L d'Or in recent years. Very different from the young versions, I liked a lot. I wouldn't age 99% of Muscadet, but I would those wines. I also think Chenin in the guise of great makers like Huet gains a lot of complexity with age. I'm less a fan of aging SB, but I've had a few older (as in 10 years, not 20) bottles of Vatan and Dagueneau that impressed. Still, I usually just drink SB young.
2) German Riesling. At Kab/Spat level I generally am just as happy to drink young, with the exception of a few producers, notably JJ Prum and von Schubert. I tend to prefer Auslese+ with age. On Donnhoff I'm beginning to lean more towards early drinking.
3) Bandol was mentioned in initial post. I don't drink much, or age any. But maybe we should organize a trip to Crabtrees Kittle House to see if they still have some of those 80s Pibarons and Pradeauxs at good prices, so we can discuss this more intelligently.
4) Rhone was also mentioned. I think FOR MY TASTES good Cote Rotie and Hermitage definitely benefits from some age.
We can certainly differ over particulars (I think David is overoptimistic re aging '01 modern Bdx RB satellites! He think I'm crazy to age Muscadet! etc). But no one is arguing over the vast majority of wines. Is there anyone who has a fair amount of experience with aged wines who would rank serious young Bordeaux or Burgundy (red or white) as better than their aged counterparts? Nor is anyone arguing for aging Beaujolais AC or Menetou-Salon for 20 years.
I don't think someone is a "lesser geek" for not sharing my preferences. But for me the complexity gained by aging is integral to most of my greatest wines ever tasted. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy some Bordeaux vintages ('97, '99) early, but they never for me (as a whole) hit the heights of great vintages with 20+ years.
David M. Bueker wrote:Is a wine that will give the most pleasure 15 years from now inherently better than one that will give lots of pleasure today? Objectively that really doesn't make sense to me.
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36011
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11880
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Lou Kessler wrote:less consensus once you get to New World wines (except Dunn!).There are more vintners in NO. CA. than just Dunn who have a hisory of aging. .
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36011
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Dale Williams wrote:Actually, one of the types of wine I think can do well from a couple years in cellar is certain NV Champagnes.
Sam Platt
I am Sam, Sam I am
2330
Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:22 pm
Indiana, USA
Sam Platt wrote:In general, my definition of "aged" would be 25+ years.
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36011
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
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