How old is "old" wine?

Francois, vintage Madeira is often not considered ready to bottle until it has aged in demijohn for a century or more. So I think you need to apply your 50 year rule relative to bottling date, not vintage date.

Thank you for your information concerning Madeira. I have some, dated 1800, that I will open one day. But I have time as, as you say, the bottling has to be taken into consideration.

For 1966, it is a year that I have cherished as it is the year of my wedding, and with my wife, we will celebrate 40 years of life together.

I like this year as I am used to it. It is not flashy, not powerful but subtle. So, you should drink these wines knowing what you do. Try to understand the message which is declared with a rather low voice, but which exists.

I prefer a subtle 1966 to a too powerful wine.
The bottle variation will play a role too.

Lacrima Christi vin de Naples - 1780
Lacrima Christi vin de Naples - 1805 #

Thanks for the very impressive list Mr.Audoze.

I am interesting in some more info on these two wines that you have tasted. Do you know the colour? Was the wine sweet, dry?? (i would guess dry by now anyway, but....).

The Lacrima Chrsiti is a wine-area around Vesuvio, just south of Naples. It was a very long time considered as one of the worlds best wine areas (470-1800). But this dropped severely during the start of the 19th century. After that the wines were mostly sold in bulk.
Today dry red is most common; being made from piedirosso and sometimes with some aglianico. But there is also a dry white and rose. Who knows how it was in 1780.

I prefer a subtle 1966 to a too powerful wine.
The bottle variation will play a role too.

A man after my own heart... Just recently, the Mähler-Besse bottling of 1966 Beychevelle and the 1966 Domaine de Chevalier were very lovely. No blockbusters here, just wines of finesse and detail.

You picked a wonderful claret year to get married, François. Many congratulations on your anniversary.

I have acquired a collection of Cyprus wine from the first half of the 19th century.
And the Lacrima Christi belong to this type of taste : a sweet fortified wines, with a lot of pepper.
Wonderful brown gold colour.
I loved the 1780 which was much "younger" than the 1805, more quiet.
Thank you for the nice words;

Uyuyuyuyyyyyy, François, those are babies! I have had several examples of Madeiras from the first years of the 19th century that are still kicking, and qite igorously... Not that I've had the honor, but I hear from friends who are avid Madeira collectors that examples from the late 18th century have also shown very well in recent years (I've always wanted to try one of the legendary ones from the year of the French Revolution that apparently are still quite lively).

I happen to be aquianted with a Madeira collector myself. Wouldn't it be funny if it was the same one? Anyway, he tells me that the old stuff (18 century and such) is not as good as some suggest. He says that early 20th century wines are often better, and I'm incline to agree from what I tasted at his place. The "Napoleon Madeira" certainly was showing signs of tiredness to me. Give me rather a Leacock Boal 1934 any time.

Peter

I happen to be aquianted with a Madeira collector myself. Wouldn't it be funny if it was the same one? Anyway, he tells me that the old stuff (18 century and such) is not as good as some suggest. He says that early 20th century wines are often better, and I'm incline to agree from what I tasted at his place. The "Napoleon Madeira" certainly was showing signs of tiredness to me. Give me rather a Leacock Boal 1934 any time.

Peter

I wasn't talking about our mutual friend, Peter. Rather, it's someone else I met last year and with whom I've been talking quite a bit, who has mentioned that certain bottles from the 1780s and 1790s he'd had in the past five years were truly lovely. Of course, not having tasted the wines, I must weigh all the different opinions from these experts...

This is an interesting thread I found. At MoCool, we had a 1929 Bordeaux and several from the fifties and sixties. I have only tasted older Madeira. How old is old in your mind? Only a few participated 6 years ago when this thread was started.

For me, I would agree with saying that currently any wine 25 years and older is old. Some in the preceding thread are antiques. I would like to try the 1864.