Open Mike: Musar 2000 NOW OPEN & EXTENDED

OK - honesty moment... I didn't get round to re-flagging this up, so if folk are still interested in opening the 2000, or indeed want to post belatedly on the 1999, then why not open a bottle over the next week and we'll compare notes. Our 2000 is standing ready at the moment and we'll either crack it tonight or in the middle of the week.

regards

Ian

I had a couple friends over tonight, so we went with the original plan and opened amongst others, the Musar 2000. It was very enjoyable, with the typical spiciness and sweet, red fruit. The nose is lifted but not as strongly volatile as the wine's reputation would suggest. Clean, no brett. Vibrant, among the more tannic Musars, strong acidity but that is countered by sweet fruit. A very good but not great Musar.

-O

This thread is a great idea IMO, thanks Ian. I've been meaning to buy some more 1999/2000 (whenever I buy Musar I seem to end up drinking it all soon after) to join in on this thread but haven't got round to it. However, back in November I decided to do a comparative tasting of the 1999 and 2000. I didn't take notes but I agree from memory with most being said in this thread (except I never really find vanilla in Musar, and I definitely almost always find a pine (tree) character ). All of us tasting preferred the 1999 - it seemed more elegant and was less tannic. However, the main thing that stikes me about these two vintages is how they exhibit less VA and funk/barnyard compared to previous vintages. It concerns me because it's these features that are part of the attraction of red Musar for many. Anyone know if these features are being deliberately toned down?

Mike B.

Grapes and Grains southside has some `98.
Liquor Select still has the `99.

Also Liquor Depot on 23rd by Rics Grill has some old vintages going back to the `70s, some in magnum. Low fills however and think this stock comes by way of Grande Prairie. Goodness knows how some of this has been stored but go over and take a look.

14175-23 ave. Ask for Brian Epp.

Great stuff, Ian. This should be an interesting debate eh. The Grill has 11 bottles stashed away, I have one reserved in the west end so will pick up!!

Bob, is the Grill a restaurant? I'm always looking for good places to go and eat/drink. I'm often stuck downtown and end up at Saltliks, Divino's, Muriettas , etc, and would love to add to the repetoire.

MIke

Opened the 2000 and....

Relatively mature looking (compared to the 99), showing significant age at the rim but also with decent depth to the core of the wine. Aromatically exciting with an almost clove-like spiciness, ably supported by warm red fruits and spicy orange. Classically high-toned Musar.

On the palate the typical sweet/savoury mix and a touch of spiciness. Acidity well judged. The only negative being a suggestion of a metallic edge to the finish.

Much more open than the 99 and very much 'in character' for a Musar. Impressed but was this an advanced bottle?

(Decanted maybe 30 mins before drinking)

regards

Ian

Michael asks.........I'm often stuck downtown and end up at Saltliks, Divino's, Muriettas

Are these Edmonton restaurants? Know a Murrietta, Whyte Ave??

Rics Grill..there are 4 at the moment. St Albert, Sherwood Park, Trewiligar and downtown.

Mike, you're in Edmonton often? Between Bob and I, we can come up with several great suggestions. Bob works at the downtown Ric's, but I'll vouch that it's a good place to eat, or stop in for a few drinks in the lounge.

Bob, I have four bottles of the '98, but I'll probably get a few more '99s so I at least have a half case. I picked up two magnums of the '80 at the Grapes & Grains in St. Albert. Seems like there's a lot of inventory from Grande Prairie in the Liquor Depot chain stores. They all have a lot of 1980s and 1990s Bordeaux at good prices, but I have no idea how well they've been stored.

I did get a couple of bottles of the '97 Cantemerle at the Oliver store and they were in excellent shape. Those were also from GP.

Here is the Musar I found....>

`64.
`70.
`77.
`79.
`80 also magnum.
`82 also magnum.
`83 also magnum.
`87 magnum only

Sorry I've not been able to join in with tasting the 2000. The clocks changed in the UK the weekend before and suddenly our daughter won't go to sleep until 9pm because the sky is too light! So there's been no time of an evening to relax and enjoy a bottle of wine.

I also managed to smash a bottle of the '99 while rummaging around in my extremely makeshift "wine storage pile". As a result of that I've put all the bottles in boxes, but there's no longer room to buy anything new

I love a simple lamb covered in herbs with Musar. But it is a very versatile wine on the table.

Thanks Otto, exactly the dish I am planning for tonite`s `99 bottle!! (Have you seen the TNS posted in the UK?).

Sorry I've not been able to join in with tasting the 2000. The clocks changed in the UK the weekend before and suddenly our daughter won't go to sleep until 9pm because the sky is too light! So there's been no time of an evening to relax and enjoy a bottle of wine.

I also managed to smash a bottle of the '99 while rummaging around in my extremely makeshift "wine storage pile". As a result of that I've put all the bottles in boxes, but there's no longer room to buy anything new

Matt, I am halfway through my `99 and it is quite unique. No VA or Brett problems unlike the guys tasting this past weekend on the UK forum. I will post TN this evening.

Well, I finally made it! I have been very busy organising some inner-city kids outings but I managed to pour myself a couple of glasses, along with my friends at DeVines store downtown!

TN:`99 Chateau Musar Bekaa Valley, Gaston Hochar.

Good cork, opened and decanted three hours. Some sediment noted, 14% alc, Lot.L2-189.

Color. Dull not bright ruby with see through centre. Shows some bricking on the rim.

Nose. Earthy, no true barnyard funk here. Oaky, red fruits mainly redcurrants with some strawberry maybe? "Has a baked feel about it" was one comment.Another thought "has that sandalwood quality of a Primitivo from Sicily". I found cherry and currant with some all-spice. Very complex nose here.

Palate. Initial mouthfeel entry thoughts were medium tannins, great acidity, very complex finish. Not Bordeaux-ish to me, would love to serve this blind in a Rhone tasting!
Cherry, plum, has an almost tarry feel about it. I find it almost baked, good spice and surprised it drinks nicely now (to me anyway). One taster noted "the cider quality on the finsh" but others thought this strange! Everyone enjoyed the experience, owner is convinced to bring some in!
Over here, we are paying $47 Cdn. This is quite unique eh.

It concerns me because it's these features that are part of the attraction of red Musar for many. Anyone know if these features are being deliberately toned down?

I heard Ralph Hochar talking about this in 2005. They had been reducing VA in recent years by bottling earlier, but were of the opinion that it was too low in 1998. The implication being that it was being ramped up a bit since, but I have no idea how tight the feedback loop is. Wasn't it 1995 with the very high VA that lead to some legal problems in some countries? Maybe that prompted the reduction.

Another interesting snippet was that VA was regarded as a preservative. I'm not sure what was meant by that - seems like topsy-turvy logic to me.

They had been reducing VA in recent years by bottling earlier, but were of the opinion that it was too low in 1998. The implication being that it was being ramped up a bit since, but I have no idea how tight the feedback loop is...
Another interesting snippet was that VA was regarded as a preservative. I'm not sure what was meant by that - seems like topsy-turvy logic to me.

That's interesting Steve. Presumably if they considered the 1998 too low we'd expect the 1999 and 2000 to have more VA though(?). The VA preservative thing seems strange - sounds like they're confusing vinegar on food with acetic acid in wine.

That's interesting Steve. Presumably if they considered the 1998 too low we'd expect the 1999 and 2000 to have more VA though(?).

Depends when they decided it was too low. They may have decided that it was too low when they tasted just before shipping, in which case it will be a few years yet before we see the results of the decision.

That's interesting Steve. Presumably if they considered the 1998 too low we'd expect the 1999 and 2000 to have more VA though(?). The VA preservative thing seems strange - sounds like they're confusing vinegar on food with acetic acid in wine.

Maybe. Or maybe they consider that the VA stops Musar turning to vinegar - because it already has! Similar to Madeira not oxidising when you open the bottle

Ian, Vanilla? Yikes! AFAIK, no new oak is used.

I asked Gaston Hochar about the oak treatment on the tasting at the Vinordic wine fair in Stockholm this Thursday and he informed us that there are some new barriques used each year, but said that it is a small part. The wines stay for a year in barriques.
See the rest of the information from the tasting in a separate thread.
Cheers,
Anders

Anders
Thanks for the info. Seems logical and consistent with what was a subtle hint of Vanilla. On another night (and not looking so closely) I'd probably not have noticed it.
regards
Ian