The Wine Advocate Argentina Scores

Joe,

Im not Oswaldo, but here are my thoughts on your question. Its not only WA that praised Argentine wines... if you follow the reviews of James Molesworth over at Wine Spectator, you will also see great improvement in scores for these wines year after year. Check out what Decanter Magazine has been saying over the years, and also there you will see a good number of 4 and 5 star wines. The same can be said about other European & Scandinavian wine magazines.... even the owner/coordinator of the UK Wine Forum is now giving many Argentine wines rave reviews.

Its up to each wine lover to calibrate his/her own palate to that of the wine critic he/she chooses to follow, but IMO the sources quoted above each have their style and palate and all of them seem to agree that the quality of the wines from Argentina has been showing great improvement.

Alejandro,

I am not disputing that--I completely agree that the producers of the top wines from Argentina are deserving of accolades. I was simply pointing out that the reviewer in question appears--based on published reviews--to score wines at the high end of where other critics rate them, irrespective of geographic region.

Hi, Joe, good point. Since I have found the Achaval-Ferrer fincas and the top Vina Cobos malbec to be really superb (and, to some extent, the lofty scores are seconded by WS), I wasn't inclined to suspect anything untoward . Do you think the reviewer in question is simply too generous, or do you have a sense that there is something more than meets the palate going on here (à la Mondovino, perhaps)?

Oswaldo,

I do not think there is anything untoward going on, although I believe Miller's methodology may be contributory (see Sue Courtney's post). In my experience, it is much easier to give a high rating when you know the identity of a wine than when you are tasting one blind.

Based on what I have seen of Miller's reviews for other regions, I find his reviews overly generous--and see no reason to change my opinion based on his Argentine reviews.

You should read this article by Tyler Coleman who tasted some wines of Argentina with the new Wine Advocate reviewer - quite probably the wines for issue of the Wine Advocate that spurred this thread.
Decanting the critic: Tasting with Dr. Jay Miller, the right hand of Robert Parker (right click to open in new window)

The wines were tasted at the Argentine Consulate in Manhattan and there are some interesting insights into how the tasting was conducted (not blind and by producer not varietal).

Sue,

Thanks for posting the link. More than one importer of Australian wines has described their tastings with Parker and/or Miller to me, and based on their accounts I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the vast majority of wines reviewed in the Wine Advocate (at least in recent years) are not tasted blind. I think this is less important for newsletter writers than for members of advertising-supported media, but I do think it has the potential to influence ratings.

You should read this article by Tyler Coleman who tasted some wines of Argentina with the new Wine Advocate reviewer - quite probably the wines for issue of the Wine Advocate that spurred this thread.
Decanting the critic: Tasting with Dr. Jay Miller, the right hand of Robert Parker (right click to open in new window)

The wines were tasted at the Argentine Consulate in Manhattan and there are some interesting insights into how the tasting was conducted (not blind and by producer not varietal).

Sue,

Thanks for posting the link. More than one importer of Australian wines has described their tastings with Parker and/or Miller to me, and based on their accounts I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the vast majority of wines reviewed in the Wine Advocate (at least in recent years) are not tasted blind. I think this is less important for newsletter writers than for members of advertising-supported media, but I do think it has the potential to influence ratings.

Thanks from me too, Sue.

Not tasting blind does not worry me, but marathon tastings do. How can they avoid rewarding the blockbusters and overlooking the subtle and elegant? I have found that problem myself at modest 30 or 40 wine tastings. I guess that the only way that these guys can still see the merits of the likes of, say, Haut-Brion is because they first drank them in the proper context, i.e. with a meal, when elegance and harmony over-trump sheer power.

Ive decided to repost the information I put up earlier, as Ive consulted with a few folks who´s opinions I trust and given the fact that the full list of scores have been published in various press releases, and have been forwarded to members of the trade & press, it is my conclusion that this information is now public.

moving this up to the top

[David M. Bueker]

moving this up to the top

Why?

Anyway, since it's here, I thought I would post the copyright statement from the Wine Advocate. I have underlined a key word.

The news media, wine distributors, and retailers may use brief portions of this material provided it is not distorted and THE WINE ADVOCATE is given credit for the material utilized.

David, I realize that English is not my first language and that my prose is probably very poor... but, I will try to explain myself once again. This information is public... there is no copyright issue involved... its been released by the co-Organizer of the tastings (Wines of Argentina) to all members of the press & wine trade in all the major markets of Argentina and all the principal export markets. Other wine related web sites that are a very careful about copyright issues have had these scores posted for weeks now..... what part of this explanation do you not understand...?

[David M. Bueker]

Alejandro - it's not you but the trade organization that is violating the copyright, but your posting is a use of improperly shared material.

David, are you not assuming that the National Organization, which co-organized the event that was the basis for the scores, does not have a release and/or authorization to make this informatio public...?

[Robin Garr]

David, are you not assuming that the National Organization, which co-organized the event that was the basis for the scores, does not have a release and/or authorization to make this informatio public...?

Okay, guys, can we just have a nice drink, klink our glasses and move on?

From my perspective - and I know a little about this stuff - David is right that either Mr. Parker or Mr. Miller (depending on their contract) owns the copyright, and the fact that this particular list has been widely distributed does not alter that. Alejandro is also right, sort of. The fact that an Argentine press organization has widely distributed the list as a news release pretty much opens the door to cross-posting, as far as I'm concerned. (The fact that the information posted is a mere listing and does not include the contents of Miller's TNs is also significant to me. I would be much more concerned about bending over backward to protect intellectual property than a mere list, which by most authorities is not subject to copyright.)

Bottom line, the list is back, and as far as I'm concerned, under these circumstances it can stay, unless the author or copyright holder asks me to remove it, in which case I will comply with that request as a courtesy, and will post the full content of any discussion surrounding it.

Can we now move on and talk about the wines, please? I don't want to have to go get a bucket of water.

Robin, I will defer to your experience on this issue, and as you say that I am sort of right, I guess Im wrong...

I will take the cue from David, who mentions that partial quotes would be OK, so Ive edited the list to just post a few scores on wines that Ive written about on this board with some frequency... I trust this solution is acceptable to all, including Mr. Spohn.

Best regards from Buenos Aires,
Alejandro

I will take the cue from David, who mentions that partial quotes would be OK, so Ive edited the list to just post a few scores on wines that Ive written about on this board with some frequency... I trust this solution is acceptable to all, including Mr. Spohn.

That seems very sensible, Alejandro. No one could object to such a limited reference.

Sadly, other than Cheval des Andes, Terrazas de los Andes, the Ferrer wines, and Melipal we don't see much of the higher end Argentine wines in BC.

I just bought some 2005 Noemia "J. Alberto" - have you had the chance to try that?

[David M. Bueker]

I have no problem with that compromise.

[Robin Garr]

Robin, I will defer to your experience on this issue, and as you say that I am sort of right, I guess Im wrong...

I will take the cue from David, who mentions that partial quotes would be OK, so Ive edited the list to just post a few scores on wines that Ive written about on this board with some frequency... I trust this solution is acceptable to all ...

Thank you, Alejandro. I'm glad we were able to sort this out in good spirits without censorship or a sledge hammer having to be brought to bear.

I will take the cue from David, who mentions that partial quotes would be OK, so Ive edited the list to just post a few scores on wines that Ive written about on this board with some frequency... I trust this solution is acceptable to all, including Mr. Spohn.

That seems very sensible, Alejandro. No one could object to such a limited reference.

Sadly, other than Cheval des Andes, Terrazas de los Andes, the Ferrer wines, and Melipal we don't see much of the higher end Argentine wines in BC.

I just bought some 2005 Noemia "J. Alberto" - have you had the chance to try that?

Bill... the 2005 J. Alberto is IMO an excellent example of what high quality Patagonian Malbec has to offer... plus it comes with a special "hidden" bonus in that the 2005 vintage includes the juice of what was supposed to be Noemia but never was, since the producers chose not to produce the Noemia that year. This means that the 05 J. Alberto, as the second wine of this house (Noemia is the first wine, and A. Lisa the third), is a second wine "on steriods", and one to look out for.

Anyway, since it's here, I thought I would post the copyright statement from the Wine Advocate. I have underlined a key word.

The news media, wine distributors, and retailers may use brief portions of this material provided it is not distorted and THE WINE ADVOCATE is given credit for the material utilized.

I have no particular interest in the WA, or Miller, nor much access to Argentinian wines for that matter. But if the only thing quoted - aside from the wine's name - is a single number, out of what might be a 50-100 word review, then it is indeed a 'brief' portion of the review, and presumably the least meaningful bit at that.

(Except for certain types of people *wink*)
cheers,
Graeme