Ice Wine Opinions -- anyone?

Awesome info. Thanks for the differing opinions and perspectives.

One northern grape grower confided that he attempted ice wines because it was a way to compete in a niche that Californa wineries can't.

It's a gamble, but when it does pay off -- it's big.

Germany = potential nectar.

All the rest = almost unremitting crap - wines intended to impress with simple sweetness and concentration, with no hint of complexity.

I have tasted many, many Canadian ice wines but the number of them that I thought were even halfway decent I can count on my fingers - of one hand.

Most of the people that rave about the Canadian version have little or no experience with good German Rieslings - they just don't know the difference.

Bill, why don't you just say what you think?

I actually once attended Canal Fest, I think in Tonowanda? Don't remember any wine, but lots of beer.

Ahh... Canal Fest! Can be a fun event. Actually it takes place in both Tonawanda and North Tonawanda. Last year my son and brother-in-law entered the "build your own boat with only 2 sheets of 1/4 inch plywood and glue in 4 hours and race it" contest. Lots of sunk boats, including their's.

David C stated that he doesn't feel ice wines age well. Would this be across the board?

What is the typical "best" cellaring for an ice wine in terms of time?

[David M. Bueker]

I've had old ice wine and young ice wine, and while they do age they become something altogether different. I much prefer to drink my ice wine within the first 5 or so years from the vintage, 10 at most to enjoy their fruit and purity.

Great question, Terri. My understanding is that those who believe eiswein ages believe the very high sugar level and high acidity preserve the wine and add subtle layers of aroma and taste. Those who disagree believe eiswein loses its distinctive acidity, fruitiness, aroma, and freshness after two or three years.

Jancis Robinson and David Schildknecht had a little debate on the subject on Purple Pages a couple of years ago.

Robinson: I may be in a minority of one but I have yet to see an Eiswein that seriously improved with more than three or four years in bottle.

Schildknecht: I have to part ways with you, Jancis, on the subject of Eiswein. I am very critical of the tendency to try to make them nearly every year, and that is because I also view the attempt as very risky from a qualitative standpoint. I am convinced one really doesn't know just what one is hyper-concentrating until one has got it fermented and then often the answer is that one has concentrated one or another negative trait that was inherent at a low level in the grapes. So the gulf in quality between the majority of Eiswein and that minority which is really pristine and exceptional is a wide one. But on ageability we disagree. There are plenty of Eiswein to have demonstrated they can still taste youthful a decade or more on ... only youthfully sour or funky in flavour. Thus far, I suspect we agree.

That said, from the standpoint of ageability, the better Eisweine are on a par with a top-flight Beerenauslese, at least to the extent that evidence is available. I add this "to the extent ..." to call attention to two further qualifications. Eiswein only became a Prädikat in and of itself, tied towines of minimum Beerenauslese must weight, in 1982. The few examples from before then that have come to my attention as satisfying mature wines were wines of comparable ripeness and concentration, rather than (what was before 1982 possible) "Spätlese Eiswein" or "Auslese Eiswein". The second caveat is that very few attempts were made to produce German Riesling from naturally frozen grapes prior to the late 1970s, so one cannot speak about even a 30-year track record.

But allowing for the above-mentioned caveats, I have certainly recently re-tasted exceptional Eisweine from the 1980s, for example those of St. Urbanshof, Zilliken, Müller-Catoir and Dönnhoff.

Robinson: Bring me those amazing 20 year-old Eisweine, please! (I can quite believe that Dönnhoff's, the best I have ever tasted, evolve.) As you say, no point in holding a bottle for a decade only to find it still tastes more or less how it did when it was a baby.

With heavyweights like Robinson and Schildknecht in the game, my opinion isn't worth much. [A good friend once advised me that when the howitzers were speaking, the popguns should stay holstered. ]

In a whisper, then, I've had a couple of older Dönnhoff Eisweins that were just delicious.

Regards, Bob

Robinson: I may be in a minority of one but I have yet to see an Eiswein that seriously improved with more than three or four years in bottle.

Robinson: Bring me those amazing 20 year-old Eisweine, please!...no point in holding a bottle for a decade only to find it still tastes more or less how it did when it was a baby.

Not a typical example, which is in line with Schildknecht's point, but in my limited experience the 1983 Maximin Grunhauser Abstberg Eiswein was pretty darn special in 2006.

[David M. Bueker]

Indeed they CAN age, but the flavor profiles of young and older eisweins (I've never had an old one from Canada) is so radically different that it would seem prudent to buy beerenauslese if one wants to age the wine thereby guaranteeing more ageability.

I will take it upon myself to do a taste comparison of "aged" and "less-aged" wines. (would make a reference to men here, but I refrain as there are advantages to both!)

I thank you for your comments and inspirations.

One last question -- or perhaps not the last as I'm prone to asking a lot of them...

A comment was made that ice wines used to be quite special but now seem to be a bit more prolific, thus reducing quality.

What are some of the more exciting "newer" labels and wines that are appearing. Possessing both grace and character?

[David M. Bueker]

Speaking of Germany as I am not the expert on Canada - go for Selbach-Oster, Donnhoff (if you can afford it), Leitz, Karlsmuhle, Maximin-Grunhaus (if you can find it), Hexamer (up and comer - "reasonable" prices)...there's a few that spring to mind.

Will do my best to find one or any of these around here. Thanks so very much.

[David M. Bueker]

Where are you Teri? That might help in terms of what's available in your area.

<sigh> Currently in South Dakota. More cows than humans are equated in the population. Moved here years ago, but ready to break out.

Will be moving to Australia in a couple of months...

[David M. Bueker]

Ok - I know nothing about wine availability in South Dakota.

Be sure to turn the lights out when you leave.

Looking forward to it.

S Dakota eh. Have always wanted to visit your state and do some butterfly collecting. Some interesting sub-species there.

The wildlife is great to observe around here. I have a 10-acre spread. Have worked for years on developing gardens and habitat for nature. Lots of butterflies, along with typically-rare hummingbirds.

Gotta say though, that a mountain lion decided to visit 2 weeks ago. The sounds that creature made literally made my hair stand on end.

Luckily, I didn't let my dogs out to scare it away. They would've been an appetizer...

Otherwise, this is a great place for communing with nature. I've also established some grape vines which led me to a deeper interest in wines.

So have learned a lot while being out here on the prairie...

So what is going to happen to your spread whilst you are away?

Sold it to the neighbor for a very tidy profit. It's a much sought-after place, and I had mutliple buyers lined up waiting...

Xmas will be the launch date for Argentina's first Malbec "Ice Wine"..... (stay tuned for details)

Thanks for the info! Will be looking forward to it.

terri - i can tell you that here in MI the Riesling Ice Wine from Chateau Grand Traverse won Best Dessert Wine at the competition. it is very wine-like, elegant and full of character at 9.5% RS. We had a wonderful one last year from Brys Estate called Dry Ice that was 7.9% RS. with typical Riesling acidity, these are really zippy wines! you may be able to order the Ch. GT from the winery if SD allows shipping.

Will definitely look into getting a few bottles to try. Thanks!