Wine Advisor: Wine in the microwave!?

Hi,
I used to put red wine in the microwave for a few seconds to take the chill off but a friend gave me a gadget called the Taste Enhancer. It's a coaster than you just put the bottle or glass on for about 30 seconds or so minimum and it seems to soften the taste as if the wine has had time to breathe. I must admit to being a bit sceptical about it until I gave it a test - one glass not on the Taste Enhancer and another on it with my girlfriend doing it so it was a blind trial for me. There was definitely a change in the taste. I've also tried it with other drinks and even fruit too. I can't say how it works but it does. I've tried it on a number of friends now so we can't all be wrong ...
Cheers!

In summary - A wine drinker is given a gift by some friends and he happens to drop a positive reference to it into conversation on a wine thread

I am involved with the distribution of the device now, so I find this a genuinely interesting topic for discussion from a taste perspective as well as commercial.
Best wishes
Roger

In summary - I have a vested commercial interest in this project - oh did I forget to mention that earlier? How forgetful of me.

Sir, you are deceitful and self-centred. You think that you can mislead people in order to make a fast buck for yourself. You ask us to trust this product works, yet in the first post on this forum you neglect to advise your financial interest in it. Trust you? thank you for making me laugh.

Have you tried snake oil? Apparently there's a great market for it and I think you'd be a wonderful salesman for it. I can sell you wholesale if you like

Ian

Hi Bob
I don't know who Mr Catania is and he has nothing to do with the Taste Enhancer so your previous correspondence with him about his product is completely irrelevant to the one that I have tested and have found to work. I don't know him or his product and so cannot comment further on either.

If you read my posts properly you would have understood that my experience of the Taste Enhancer was a practical one and not faith based as you suggest. I have had other people do blind tasting trials on it and they have commented on the taste difference. You offer no explanation as to their experience. They have no reason to say anything other than their honest experience.

The quote on my website was from Joe Dunninger, not mine, and the attitude of rejecting something without even trying it is perfect illustration of that quote. Past failure by others with similar claims does not mean that my experience is not valid.

I agreed to take you up on your kind offer to fund a trial but you seem to have let that one slip in your last post although given that you seem to have such a closed mind I'm not sure you would be the right person to devise a trial and judge it impartially as a true scientific experiment yourself. Perhaps you could recommend someone who would be willing to approach a trial of some sort in a scientific and unbiased manner?

If you read my website you would have known that the Scenar device is an electronic device for medical treatment and not appropriate to use on wine - there are no claims suggestive of that usage. The Taste Enhancer is derived from the e-Lybra technology and yes it does change the taste.

Ian, Sir, you do not know me or else you would know I am not self-centred or deceitful. It is impossible to be deceitful or to mislead people about something that works. That is my honest opinion of the Taste Enhancer and I am too busy to spend my valuable time with being involved with things that do not work in my experience so you can keep your snake oil, thank you for your offer . I didn't mention my financial involvement in the first post because I wasn't primarily trying to link everybody to another site as I would have done if that were my only motive. I and others have experienced a difference in taste from placing various drinks including wine on the Taste Enhancer. I am interested to see how wine enthusiasts who presumably have an educated palate might view such a device, assuming they have open minds. It occurred to me that maybe what the Taste Enhancer does is to open out the flavours so that they are more distinguishable in which case experts who have trained themselves to identify these subtle differences already may not notice as much of a difference as someone who has a less discernable palate and cannot identify the constituent flavours so easily. I don't personally know any renowned wine tasters here in the UK with whom I could contact and investigate this but if anybody on this list falls into that category I would be happy to take this further in the interests of science.
Best wishes.

Roger
Did it not enter your head that posting a ringing endorsement of a product you have a financial interest in, might have warranted some disclosure of interest?

Most decent people would assume so and might consider the only reason one might not do that would be to deceive the readers that you were just a wine enthusiast who was independantly trying the product.

You've attempted to stealth market your product here and been caught. I salute your bravado in carrying on, but your attempt at deception is unforgiveable. Remember as well that your posts are on the world wide web for all to see, which I'm sure will be of interest to potential customers researching this product. Faking that you were just a wine enthusiast will hardly encourage them to place their trust in you.

Ian

Ian,
I am a wine enthusiast but you don't know me so you cannot possibly accuse me of only pretending to be one. No doubt there are others who are far more knowledgeable on the subject than I am but I'm always open to learn.
This is no bravado I can assure you. I honestly have experienced what I have posted and I stand by those posts including the bit about how I was first given a Taste Enhancer. I am genuinely interested in the effects this device has, partly because I enjoy the effect on drinks etc and partly because I believe there are wider implications and applications if what I have experienced is as real to others as it is to me.
As I said before, if my only interest was commercial I would have attempted to link my original post to another commercial site. I didn't.
Cheers
Roger

Hi Roger,

You've made quite a few points -- I'll try to respond -- please let me know if I slip and miss something.

There is a device called the "Taste Enhancer" which claims a Trade Mark under UK law, and which is promoted by Robert Catania. That device comes in at least five different versions. I had assumed that you were promoting the same device. My apologies for misunderstanding; where can I find the "Wine Enhancer" you are promoting?

I've purchased and tested a number of these devices -- at my own expense -- and am willing to do the same for the "Wine Enhancer" you are promoting.

"the attitude of rejecting something without even trying it is perfect illustration [of the Joe Dunninger quote]".

I'm perfectly willing to try the "Wine Enhancer" you are promoting; as noted, I thought I already had done so with the Catania "Wine Enhancer", but I was mistaken. Please let me know how to purchase the "Wine Enhancer" and I'll give it a fair trial.

I had also understood that in the context of your site, and the position of the quote on your site, that you were endorsing Dunninger's comment, and indicating that anyone who doubted your claims could not fairly judge them from a scientific point of view. Perhaps you could help me understand why you placed the quote on your site, and what you hope the reader will glean from it.

"I agreed to take you up on your kind offer to fund a trial but you seem to have let that one slip in your last post although given that you seem to have such a closed mind I'm not sure you would be the right person to devise a trial and judge it impartially as a true scientific experiment yourself. Perhaps you could recommend someone who would be willing to approach a trial of some sort in a scientific and unbiased manner?"

Roy, I had understood that you thought such a trial would not be meaningful: "Coming from a scientific background I am all in favour of proving a change in taste although as I said before I don't know exactly how this is achieved which might make the construction of a trial difficult? Is subjective scoring of taste seen as scientific I don't know? "

Of course, my offer still stands.

First, I need to understand what "Wine Enhancer" you are promoting. Once we get over that hurdle, I'll be glad to work out the details of a fair trial. In principle, though, I am not going to involved in the trial in any way, except to fund it. A very experience scientist has agreed to work out the protocol and some very experienced tasters have agreed to participate as tasters in a double blind study. It has been some time since anyone with a wine enhancer of any type has expressed an interest in such a study, so I would have to be sure these folks are still interested. And, of course, the promoter of any wine enhancer would have to agree with the parameters of the protocol in advance, would be offered the chance to audit the trial, and would allow the results to be published.

Let's get over the first hurdle: exactly what "Wine Enhancer" are you promoting?

"If you read my website you would have known that the Scenar device is an electronic device for medical treatment and not appropriate to use on wine - there are no claims suggestive of that usage. The Taste Enhancer is derived from the e-Lybra technology and yes it does change the taste. "

I was confused, frankly, about the Scenar device and the uses it might have. You write, for example:

'Scientists now accept that all matter even at the atomic level is fundamentally bundles of energy."

I assumed that wine, being matter, might also be "fundamentally bundles of energy". Hence my question. I'm always glad to "learn more science – ie. Quantum Physics!"

In any event, let me know where and how I can purchase the "Wine Enhancer" you are promoting, and we can take it from there.

REgards, Bob

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your offer. I will contact you off list and I will send you a device at my expense as a gesture of good will which is only fair if you are going to fund a trial. My questions re the trial were not intended to dismiss the idea, and I apologise if I gave that impression, but more to try to glean how it might be set up and how those "for whom no evidence will suffice" might view a positive result?

The Dunninger quote is included on my website primarily I think to challenge those "for whom no evidence will suffice" as I come across that reaction quite regularly - sometimes if I get a good result with my work it is dismissed as "Of course it was going to get better anyway!". Once is understandable but every time?!! I'm not into blind acceptance of things either but I do like pushing boundaries!!
Kind regards
Roger

Roger, please do send me the information on obtaining the device, but I am not willing to accept it free -- I'm a wine consumer with no other business interest in the wine business, and never accept wines or wine devices for free. [Oops, except at offlines and when a guest of others, of course; but here I want to be free to report on my experiences with no restrictions just like any other consumer.]

I understand now the reason for quoting Dunning. My own personal experience involved a number of research projects -- I'm a lawyer, not a scientist, but I worked closely with a number of experimenters on a number of different projects over the years.

Most closely relevant, perhaps, was a ten year project to try to determine if an electrical stimulation device would promote bone healing in animals, and if effective there, in humans. We spent over $5 million in the effort and finally concluded that the effects could not be demonstrated at any level of scientific certainty.

Having tested a number of wine enhancing devices, you should understand my own current position. It would be very interesting if any of those devices worked for a number of reasons -- for starters, I would love to "age" a 2005 First Growth and enjoy it on my next birthday.

And, I do believe that some people do perceive a difference in "treated" and "untreated" wine. There are a number of explanations for why tasters gain that perception. Unfortunately, none have been demonstrated to be effective in a scientifically valid, double blind study, with a statistically significant number of tasters.

There's a report of one of my flawed experiments in the area online at http://www.wineloverspage.com/user_subm ... /6549.html My own report(which includes the reactions of several other tasters) is not online any longer, but I'll be glad to send it to anyone who is interested. I have to emphasize -- this was not a double blind, scientifically valid test in any sense of the word -- just a parlor trick with some amusement value.

Regards, Bob

Tom N wrote:
This has been a Noland brother technique for years. We store the wine in the fridge and warm it up in the wine glass for drinking. It seems to work well, but you have to remember to swirl before drinking to make sure there are no hot cold spots.

When it comes to “nuking” a liquid I don’t think you have to worry about “hot cold spots” because of a phenomenon known as Brownian Motion.
We are all aware of this phenomenon, no matter how clean we think our home is, if a focused and narrow beam of bright sunlight shines through a window into a shadowed area we will notice tiny particles dancing around in random motion in the beam of light. What actually is happening is the beam of light is heating up gas molecules in the air and they are getting excited and moving around much more rapidly colliding with dust particles.

Salute

Ian,
I am a wine enthusiast but you don't know me so you cannot possibly accuse me of only pretending to be one.

Nice misquote Roger - I accused you of failing to disclose relevant information about your financial interest in this product, that you were so warmly endorsing. No challenge to your interest in wine or otherwise (the word 'just' is very important to understanding what was being said).

As I said before, if my only interest was commercial I would have attempted to link my original post to another commercial site. I didn't.
Cheers
Roger

If you had done that your post would have been deleted within minutes. I suspect you knew that though. No, your attempt was more stealthy, but sadly for you, not stealthy enough.

Your bravado is continuing to attempt to market your product, when you've already been shown to have actively misled the participants of the forum. Most people when found out slink off into a corner - you've got great bravado in sticking around and still trying to work your sales pitch.

Ian