Jancis Robinson peddles the 6th edition of the World Atlas of Wine.

No, I am sure that he falls within the named category. Maybe, judging by his style, he falls short in the sense of humour department to be put in a group with Johnson and Robinson. But this is possibly sheer prejudice!

[Jenise]

Love being called cellar rat! Who chose this moniker? Happy to keep it anyway.
For the riesling king, I live in Paris. Let me know when you come this way.

David, title changes occur at certain intervals based on number of posts. After 1,000, you can choose your own. So 991 to go for you--get busy!

Not sure I'll stand the pace. I like cellar rat anyway!

"When did Jancis Robinson take over from Hugh Johnson as the editor?"

Paul, I stopped by Barnes and Noble this morning to get a copy of Springsteen's newest album, and glanced at the Atlas6 -- my copy hasn't arrived by mail.

I confirmed that Jancis did join Johnson in Atlas5. Johnson is still listed first, but he has a very graceful Forward writing that the Atlas is now Jancis's. He also gives great credit to Jancis's assistant Julia Harding, and some others.

Regards, Bob

Bob Ross, you just started something new here!!!!

Which wine to drink whilst listening to Brucie, lets go! Maybe a shot of rye might be better, I dance better on the table after this stuff. Wine does not appear to get the same response!

Hello Bob . I am enjoying this thread more than almost any of recent vintage, despite my levity at the beginning. I don't subscribe to Her Majesty's online forum, but maybe I should. Heretofore, I have Felt that for the price of any of these online publications I could have a really, really, nice bottle of wine and just read the pronouncements right here on the WLDG. I have a vast respect for the pronouncements of some here, present and past, and even admit to reading from time to time on other forums just to catch up on some of the pronouncements of forumites from the past. About my enjoyment of this particular thread, it is refreshing to read discussions such as this one between you and David B, and then to have a new comer throw in his 2 cents worth made my day! referring to my enjoyment, it is not everyday that People can have this kind discussion with tempers remaining on an even keel, and IMO that is refreshing. I became subscribed to the thread with my first reply, and I think I will stay subscribed to see where it goes. Thanks for starting the thread and giving me a smile, for I don't often have reason to smile, given my curmudgeonly nature.

"When did Jancis Robinson take over from Hugh Johnson as the editor?"

Paul, I stopped by Barnes and Noble this morning to get a copy of Springsteen's newest album, and glanced at the Atlas6 -- my copy hasn't arrived by mail.

I confirmed that Jancis did join Johnson in Atlas5. Johnson is still listed first, but he has a very graceful Forward writing that the Atlas is now Jancis's. He also gives great credit to Jancis's assistant Julia Harding, and some others.

Regards, Bob

Bob,

Thanks for all the info. I really should get a more up-to-date copy of the World Atlas of Wine. The 2nd edition has always been one of my favorite wine books, and a resource I've gone to again and again. Both for the maps and for Hugh Johnson's incomparable prose descriptions of the wine regions.

Hugh Johnson has nailed it yet again by choosing Jancis Robinson has his successor in editing the World Atlas of Wine. The four wine books I value most highly are the 2nd edition of "The World Atlas of Wine", Jancis's "Vines, Grapes, and Wines", and Remington Norman's two books "The Great Domaines of Burgundy" and "Rhone Renaissance".

Jancis will do a great job, I'm sure, as Hugh's successor in editing "The World Atlas of Wine". I look forward to seeing the 6th edition--especially to see what's changed since my 2nd edition.

-Paul W.

"Thanks for starting the thread and giving me a smile, for I don't often have reason to smile, given my curmudgeonly nature."

You are most welcome, Bob.

Hey, I have an exercise for you. Someone I know was bitching me out for smiling too much. A Crank Ass, actually.

He challenged me to make him laugh.

I told him to go into the bathroom and smile at himself in the mirror.

Ten seconds later ... I kid you not ... he started laughing. Told me it made him feel good too. Now I catch him smiling from time to time.

Regards, Bob

"I really should get a more up-to-date copy of the World Atlas of Wine."

Paul, this is really a beautifully produced book. I glanced at it for five minutes in the store, and am waiting with anticipation for my copy to arrive. Janet was going to give it to me for Christmas but I'll probably raid her cedar closet stash of presents from time to time before then.

And knowing the two authors, I'm sure the substance is great too.

Bob, beer works better with Springsteen -- I'm not a Scotch drinker so wouldn't know about that. But, here's a song to listen to while sipping wine:

After the music had stopped
I still heard it playing
I moved a little closer to hear
The words she was saying
She said I'll never break your heart
I'll never try to fake it
My love is here for you
All you have to do is take it
Kisses sweeter than wine
My little girl so fine

etc. etc.

"I really should get a more up-to-date copy of the World Atlas of Wine."

Paul, this is really a beautifully produced book. I glanced at it for five minutes in the store, and am waiting with anticipation for my copy to arrive. Janet was going to give it to me for Christmas but I'll probably raid her cedar closet stash of presents from time to time before then.

And knowing the two authors, I'm sure the substance is great too.

You just gave an excellent description of the 2nd edition that I own, and still treasure. The maps were excellent, and really gave you a visual appreciation of what "terroir" (the affect of geography on wine) really means. The only better way to appreciate it is to visit the vineyards themselves in person.

The text itself in the 2nd edition gives an excellent summary of what's going on in each wine region, and who some of the key producers are. It's the last item (the key producers) that is the most time-sensitive material in the book, and what varies most from edition to edition.

I loved Hugh Johnson's treatment of the subject in the 2nd edition.

I look forward to seeing Jancis Robinson's approach in the 6th edition. I'm definitely going to buy this, and I know I won't be disappointed.

-Paul W.

Hello all the Bobs, Davids and the rest of you who may be out there.
I have a simple test of the usefulness of books. Some might call it the acid test. I call it the binding test. If you take a look at my wine reference book shelf, there are two books that have totally lost their back bindings. One is an international lexicon on wine terms (my work sometimes involves specialist translations), the other one is the first edition of the Oxford Companion to Wine. Now I have the new edition, but I haven't managed to throw out the old one yet, it has just been "retired" to the country. I think this just about sums up the indispensible character of this work. Of course this is largely due to its very nature as an encyclopedia. But there is also an independance of spirit and respect of fact in its entries that merits our respect. Overall it has to be the most useful book on wine there is. Others can be more fun to read, but that is hardly the point in this case, as the aim and scope are totally different.
For an example, I have just started reading The Accidental Connoisseur by Lawrence Osborne. It makes me smile a lot, and think also.
Books like Osborne's do bring up the question of what is "accessible" wine writing. His style is free and easy, very enjoyable and seemingly flippant. And yet the subjects he touches upon are serious: what is taste, what do words like style or terroir mean, etc. I would be very interested to hear from somebody who is not, like myself, a wine "professional" as to what they get out of Osborne's book. I do feel that, as with many things, you get out of something to the extent that you also provide input, in terms of thought, experience, or whatever.

I've got a draft review of this book on Note Tab Pro, David, and may post it sometime. It's a book I've read straight through once, and then re-read chapter by chapter over a period of months.

It's clearly well written -- I buy Tony Hendra's conclusion: "Osborne is a new voice in the wine world, smart, generous, perceptive, funny, sensible, free of cant and arrogance and self-interest." At least, I buy it after I translate some of the Oxbridge overtones into a more accessible Americanism. But it is funny, and the last two paragraphs are worth the price of the book.

[I should note that I read a fair amount of Osborne's stuff in the New York Times Magazine, and I've read two of his other books, so I know his style.]

A couple of things are off putting for me. First he pretends a naivety that is simply false -- in his first chapter he debates terroir with Antonio Terni and holds his own. Second, I found it hard to decide what he thought and what he was simply reporting. I thought he was wise to eventually tune into Neal Rosenthal to carry his themes.

It's a book, I think, that is more interesting and useful to someone who is well read in wine, especially in the terroir debates, and also one who has read at least the Atlantic piece on Robert Parker.

I wouldn't recommend this book to someone who is new to wine and wants to learn about it. But I would recommend it to someone who is interested in good writing and to one who would like to deepen their knowledge of wine.

***

On your first point, online versions of Robinson's books are much more useful than the big tomes -- in the same way the OED and Britannica are more useful. The ability to search, to copy, to have access anywhere in the world are major advantages.

I love to hold books, and read lots of them, but encyclopedias should be online or at least on CD, unless you are reading them straight through. Reading the OCW1 that way was a wonderful experience.

And, the Atlas6 absolutely has to be in book form in order to be able to use it effectively. Supplementing the Atlas6 with Gooogle Earth -- that's the ticket.

Regards, Bob

Thanks for your enlightenment and opinion on the Osborne book, Bob. I've not yet finished it but have got further down the line since I posted my initial comments on it.
I quite agree with you that, to get substance from it, it is necessary to have some baggage down the wine trail. And therefore, as you say, Osbourne's sometimes "contrived candid" approach (or the "I'm only here for the drink" angle) is not credible, especially as in the next chapter you relaise that the guy has been around quite a bit. This is particularly true in the chapter called "The Vinelife".
But there are nevertheless some wonderful passages of writing, such as the final sentence of this chapter, when he describes the Opus One architecture as "the severe poetry of the technological dream". One does not often get this level in wine books!
And please don't knock Oxbridge: they are quite decent places of education, inlcuding on wine (I didn't go to either myself).
But we are getting far off the intial track. Isn't it time we renamed this particular forum?

I used "Oxbridge" descriptively, David, not as an insult. Lots of our TV imports on public television speak "Oxbridge".

I understand the word to imply superior social or intellectual status -- just checked the OED to be sure -- and Osborne's writing style certainly has that characteristic to my ear at least.

Has the word gained a negative connotation in the UK?

And don't worry about thread drift -- the janitor will be around in due course to move it if he chooses.

I agree that Osborne captures some great quotes:

''I do hate all this pseudo-intellectual mental masturbation about wine.'' -- Terni.

''I wish we had terroir. But we don't. I'd like to make a terroir wine before I die.'' Randall Graham.

[David M. Bueker]

David,

It's interesting that you so admire that turn of phrase about Opus One (perhaps the most overrated wine in history) considering your thoughts on Schildknecht who could take a phrase like that and actually make it sound good.

[David M. Bueker]

Randall Graham is a blowhard. The USA has terroir. Heck, Mars has terroir. It's just not as important to some winemakers in the USA as it is in Europe. He also does not exactly make the best wines out there. Perhaps he should examine the land he is working with. Maybe it's not suited to wine.

I defy anyone to drink and learn about Ridge Monte Bello or Montelena Estate Cabernet and still claim that there is no terroir. Now respect for terroir is another matter - there's not much of that.

As for "pseudo-intellectual" I will fall back on something Allen Meadows said about comments like that..."I paid."

David,

It's interesting that you so admire that turn of phrase about Opus One (perhaps the most overrated wine in history) considering your thoughts on Schildknecht who could take a phrase like that and actually make it sound good.

Opus One -- the most overrated, David? How about Biondi-Santi, Chateau Grillet or Schloss Johannisberg (depending on era, of course)?

Mark Lipton

Point taken on Oxbidge, Bob. Shows how easy it is to misconstrue. By the way, I live in France and have done so for 35 years.

To prove the above point once again, David B has got me wrong about the quote from Osborne's book. I was admiring his concisely poetic and, in my opinion, (having been to the place) good description of the building. He was not talking about the wine. Context, context....

On terroir and Randall Grahm etc.
Maybe the rocks in the barrel stunt was a tongue-in cheek way of saying something, or parhaps several things at once. Wine is not to be taken too seriously!
And this particular little stunt finds an echo in the Sassoferrato chapter of Osborne's opus and his passage on the Conero Rosso wine from Terni.
Naturally everywhere has terroir, as the word just means environment. We might just get a Martian wine as Grahms's next adventure!

Glad to hear you like Ridge Montebello, David. Me too.
I will be travelling to Napa and Sonoma late October and early November. Which would be your "not to be missed" places/people, as I have not been there for ages.

[David M. Bueker]

David,

Opus One (perhaps the most overrated wine in history)

Opus One -- the most overrated, David? How about Biondi-Santi, Chateau Grillet or Schloss Johannisberg (depending on era, of course)?

Mark Lipton

Indded yes. Schloss Johannisberg had centuries of great wine before falling on hard times for abotu 25 years. They are now completely back on track.

The other two, especially Grillet, don't qualify, as pretty much only geeks know/care. Opus One is everywhere.

In fairness, David B., in the context of the quote, Randall was talking about his own sites, not a general comment on all US winemakers or wines.

And, David C., I'll neither Robinson nor Johnson would drop "chthonic" into their texts in such a casual way. I had to look it up, and wondered why he used it when "terroir" was so prominent throughout the book.

Some readers are put off by that sort of language -- at least he should have defined it -- it has an interesting history and certainly fit the theme of the book. Hemingway he ain't, much as I enjoyed his writing.

I quite agree with you that, to get substance from it, it is necessary to have some baggage down the wine trail. And therefore, as you say, Osbourne's sometimes "contrived candid" approach (or the "I'm only here for the drink" angle) is not credible, especially as in the next chapter you relaise that the guy has been around quite a bit. This is particularly true in the chapter called "The Vinelife".
But there are nevertheless some wonderful passages of writing, such as the final sentence of this chapter, when he describes the Opus One architecture as "the severe poetry of the technological dream". One does not often get this level in wine books!

I quite enjoyed Osbourne's book and saw it as what Mondovino might have been in the hands of an interviewer more skilled in the use of irony.

Mark Lipton

Yes, and you could add "intellectual honesty" to that requisite. Don't start me on that dreadfully simplistic film, please!

Gosh, I just have to interject here that I was born in the same month and year as Randall Grahm, went to the same university at the same time, and that Cigare Volante was one of the first aha wines that I ever had. So it feels only right to say that RG is an okay dude and made/makes good wine, even though Bonny Doon maybe isn't what it once was. There has to be room in the world for odd folks who do good things, don't you think?
cheers, Bonnie