Burgundy Fans: Opinion Requested

I received an email about an upcoming Burgundy seminar guest hosted by someone from the House of Jadot. I am pretty lacking in my exposure to and knowledge of Burgundy and would like to get to know it's wines a little better, but thought I'd run this by some people who might be able to tell me if they think that the price is in line with the tastings on offer. The cost is $89 for 1 1/2 hours, and the wines are as follows:

Flight #1
2004 Chablis

Flight #2
2004 Meursault-Genevrieres
2004 Puligny-Montrachet Les Combettes
2003 Chassagne-Montrachet Morgeot, Clos de la Chapelle

Flight #3
2004 Beaune-Theurons
2004 Volnay Clos de Barre
2004 Pommard-Epenots

Flight #4
2004 Gevrey-Chambertin
2004 Gevrey-Chambertin Clos Saint Jacques
2004 Clos Vougeot

As always, your feedback is appreciated!

I haven't had any of the wines but the price certainly seems reasonable compared to what some of these events cost. And it would give you a good broad picture of what wines are like in different parts of Burgundy.

Thanks, Rahsaan - I went ahead and bought the ticket.

Thanks, Rahsaan - I went ahead and bought the ticket.

Aha, I see you couldn't wait long for responses..

Let us know how it goes. You may have heard that the 2004 vintage is somewhat controversial because some people claim it is underripe and to be forgotten since "Vintage of the Century" 2005 is here, while others claim 2004 just needs a little bottle age and is a welcome counterpoint to the hepped-up 05s.

That won't necessarily get in your way of learning about the diversity of Burgundy in this tasting. And on the bright side, if you like the wines and want to buy some, they should be much more readily available and lower-priced than the 05s.

[Robin Garr]

You may have heard that the 2004 vintage is somewhat controversial because some people claim it is underripe and to be forgotten since "Vintage of the Century" 2005 is here, while others claim 2004 just needs a little bottle age and is a welcome counterpoint to the hepped-up 05s.

Not that I'm a high-end Burgundy expert or anything, but based on my mostly bottom-feeding ($40 and under) experiences, after just hating 2003, I'm very happy with both the 2004 and 2005 red Burgs I've tasted. I'm on board with 2005 as excellent, offering excellent drinking when young, "hedonistic" but not Californicated. The 2004s I've had seem consistently good, maybe more restrained than the 2005s, but definitely to my liking. Maybe I'm just easy? But no, many of the '03s really were awful, to my taste buds at least.

Not that I'm a high-end Burgundy expert or anything, but based on my mostly bottom-feeding ($40 and under) experiences, after just hating 2003, I'm very happy with both the 2004 and 2005 red Burgs I've tasted..

I'm hardly an expert either and have tasted exactly zero 2005 red Burgundies, but still thought that K might appreciate the background to the vintage. Although I imagine they will discuss the vintage style at the tasting.

[Robin Garr]

I'm hardly an expert either and have tasted exactly zero 2005 red Burgundies, but still thought that K might appreciate the background to the vintage. Although I imagine they will discuss the vintage style at the tasting.

I agree, and I hope nothing I said implied that I thought otherwise.

[James Roscoe]

K, is that the tasting on the 26th in DC? I got the invite but $89 seemed out of my price rage for these wines. Rashaan and Robin think it's worth it? Maybe I should put it on my Memorial Day weekend to-do list.

'04 chablis?? the '06 should be arrving any minute.

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the conversation on the vintages, and am looking forward to seeing how the '04s are (the only other vintage I recall trying was an '01 Nuits St. Georges.) And Rashaan, you're so right...I obviously knew I wanted to go and was just looking for one "aye" to justify it

James, yes - that's the one. If you do end up deciding to go, let me know and I'll try to be sure to say hi to you! I have yet to meet any of the DC WLDG crowd...

I have very much enjoyed the '04s I've had and I usually Jadot, so I would certainly go. With Finnish prices, 89$ sounds like a bargain!

I never really did understand the controversy with the green notes in '04s. I did get some tartness in '04 Bojos, but that has largely disappeared in the past half a year or so. But in Burgundies? I have just thought them delightfully savoury and classical.

-O-

[James Roscoe]

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the conversation on the vintages, and am looking forward to seeing how the '04s are (the only other vintage I recall trying was an '01 Nuits St. Georges.) And Rashaan, you're so right...I obviously knew I wanted to go and was just looking for one "aye" to justify it

James, yes - that's the one. If you do end up deciding to go, let me know and I'll try to be sure to say hi to you! I have yet to meet any of the DC WLDG crowd...

They still had some tickets left. I should probably go, but I think I'm obligated to a birthday party that evening in Bowie. Such is the turn of the worm. Maybe at the Bordeaux vs. California event?

But no, many of the '03s really were awful, to my taste buds at least.

Robin, not to hijack this thread, but what was it about the 03s that you didn't like, and do you know if this was a universally disliked vintage and, if so, for what reason?
(Local wine shop has some 03 burgundy in its closeouts - maybe for a good reason.

[Robin Garr]

Robin, not to hijack this thread, but what was it about the 03s that you didn't like, and do you know if this was a universally disliked vintage and, if so, for what reason?
(Local wine shop has some 03 burgundy in its closeouts - maybe for a good reason.

Seems on topic to me, OW!

Okay, again, this is mostly just my opinion, although I think others on this forum have said it better than I can: 2003 was a record hot vintage with very early ripening across most of Europe. It made big, fat, high alcohol wines throughout, and in my opinion, in more northerly regions (Burgundy, Loire, Northern Rhone), it presented wine makers with fruit that they just plain didn't know what to do with.

The result was some wines that the pointy types loved - hedonistic gobs-o-fruit blockbusters - which may be slurpy if you like that kind of thing but that are so far out of typicity for Burgundy that they could have passed for Syrah. "Central Coast-style Pinot" from Burgundy? I don't think so. And that was the wines that were handled well. The failures struck me as fat, low in acid, high in tannin, weird and wacky and unlikely ever to come around.

Again note that I'm a bottom-feeder in these waters. I rarely get to taste the high-price spread. But certainly among the villages wines and relatively affordable labels, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Still, you ought to do your own reality check. Can you buy a bottle or two and "sacrifice" one to get a sense of what you think of a random '03? Then go back for more if you like it?

Thanks, Robin.
I've had a few Burgundies from 2003, also lower priced spread, but I don't have the experience to compare them to other good, bad or mediocre vintages. I have stayed away from Burgundy because it is so fricking hard to understand. But the Girardin Emotion de Terroirs - certainly an inexpensive Burgundy - was nothing like an aussie Shiraz. It was a bit high in tannins for a pinot, but the acidity was good, and the balance quite acceptable. Medium bodied, maybe a bit short on minerality, but OK. Actually quite good for the price. I've also had the Drouhin Vero, which was a bit lower on tannin, but a bit higher in fruit component, again lacking a touch in minerality, but again not a hedonistic gobby wine and pretty good for the price compared to Cal equivalents. Surprisingly, I kind of liked both of them, and since they are in the closeout bin, will probably buy a few more. Why not for $8 a bottle.

[David M. Bueker]

For what it's worth, most (but not all) of the 2004 dissenters were recent converts to Burgundy, mostly through the 2002 and 2003 vintages.

I'm a fan of 1998, 2000, 2001 and 2004 Burgundy, and think they all offer authentic drinking at less inflated prices, with medium term aging potential (except for 2000 which I drink whenever i can for its easy accessibility).

Looks a very good deal to me.

Hard to say re value without knowing people to bottle ratio, but assuming decent tasting pours this seems like a good deal. And Jadot/Kobrand usually does well at these things. I find Jadot does much better at the estate owned properties like Beaune "theurons" and the Gevrey CSJ.

PS Agree re 2003. I've liked some lower end Burgs. But the usually dependable village and 1ers were no fun (I've tasted no GCs). Even Chevillon's 1ers displeased.

PS Agree re 2003. I've liked some lower end Burgs. But the usually dependable village and 1ers were no fun (I've tasted no GCs). Even Chevillon's 1ers displeased.

From all that I've read (and some of it probably from you, Dale ) there were several problems with '03 in Burgundy. First, the drought and heat were so severe that many vines shut down which resulted in very green tannins at harvest time. Second, paradoxically, some less renowned sites fared better in '03 because vines at the bottom of hills and in the flats got more water and were less affected by the drought. Third, even very good producers, who can usually eke something of quality out in almost any vintage, were put to the test by the radically different ripening of vines in the same vineyard. Extremely severe selection was required to get a wine that was even close to balanced and the searing heat at harvest time meant that many didn't get the chance to carefully sort through bunches.

Mark Lipton

I take it almost everybody here disagrees with Parker's assessment of 2003 vs. 2004? He rates 2003 considerably higher than 2004 in both Cote de Nuits (93 to 86) and Cote de Beaune (88 to 79). I know that many (most?) her disagree with Parker's preferred style - I do too - but one would think that the problems sited on this thread really go to the quality of the wine and not just the style.

[Robin Garr]

I take it almost everybody here disagrees with Parker's assessment of 2003 vs. 2004? He rates 2003 considerably higher than 2004 in both Cote de Nuits (93 to 86) and Cote de Beaune (88 to 79). I know that many (most?) her disagree with Parker's preferred style - I do too - but one would think that the problems sited on this thread really go to the quality of the wine and not just the style.

OW, you're probably right to an extent, although at this point it seems to me that style and quality start to merge.

Some of the outrage that many wine geeks feel about Parker (and the Speck's) high praise for 2003 probably stems directly from the wine culture wars, the Mondovino effect: Parker first came to world attention by proclaiming the virtues of the 1982 Bordeaux when most other critics regarded it as atypical and California-like. Now, a generation later, high ratings for an even more atypical vintage pretty much force a choice: Is he right because the wines are hedonistic (albeit tannic) fruit bombs? Or is he wrong for the same reason?

(This argument, of course, uses "Parker" to refer to Wine Advocate. He doesn't personally rate Burgundy any more, does he?

They still had some tickets left. I should probably go, but I think I'm obligated to a birthday party that evening in Bowie. Such is the turn of the worm. Maybe at the Bordeaux vs. California event?

James - this is on June 30 at 1:30pm at the French Embassy, right? WWA also shows France vs. the Rest of the World on the same day, but at 7pm. Busy day at the embassy. Anyway, I'll probably go to the Bordeaux/CA event since I already did the latter when they had it back in March.

Wow, didn't expect my li'l ole post to generate so many follow ups! I'm curious now though, and will have to pick up an '03 to see what all the controversy is about.

[Jenise]

You may have heard that the 2004 vintage is somewhat controversial because some people claim it is underripe and to be forgotten since "Vintage of the Century" 2005 is here, while others claim 2004 just needs a little bottle age and is a welcome counterpoint to the hepped-up 05s.

What's cool is this nonsense has affected the delicious 04 white burgs equally. I've been buying them for 1/3 to 1/2 the original MSRP.