Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
Mark Willstatter wrote:As anyone who has lived near vineyards or participated in crush will know, a healthy vineyard is full of critters.
AlexR wrote:In fact, the proof is in the pudding... The grapes grow just fine, and the wine is no less good than it was ages ago!
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
34949
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Rahsaan wrote:Mark Willstatter wrote:As anyone who has lived near vineyards or participated in crush will know, a healthy vineyard is full of critters.
And the monoculture planting of grapes doesn't make it easier for those critters to spread and infect the grapes? Hence the need for more and more pesticides herbicides fungicides etc?
David M. Bueker wrote:Do you have data on the "need for more and more pesticides herbicides fungicides etc"?...Of course bad weather (read: high moisture coupled with high heat) will give you rot in a monoculture or a diverse culture. It's what happens when water and heat get together on organic material...I don't see your premise.
Hoke wrote:On this one ranch, one of the vineyards, petite sirah, has been infested with phylloxera. The fruit from the vines is superb, by the way. Normally, one would rip out the vines, since they will all succumb to the pest, rid the soil of the infestation, and eventually replant. But we don't want to give up that vineyard and that magnificent old vine fruit. So all of the biodynamic/organic practices are focused on creating the healthiest soil/vine situtaion we can to make sure the vines survive for as long as possible.
But before vines were apples (in Sonoma) and prunes (in Napa, which might tell you something about the nature of Napa fruit, snark, snark). And before that, this was a big area for hops (as you can tell from all the remaining hops barns).
Mendocino was big on pears.
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
34949
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Rahsaan wrote: And I thought that one possible argument might be that rot spreads faster in a monoculture environment. But I guess you would refute that argument.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Yes, I guess the grape/wine industry is pretty similar to other industries in that respect.
Hoke wrote:Take off the romantic old world blinders, and even Europe would be forced into the mercantile approach to wine (as many wine factories there as anywhere, no?). Perhaps, especially Europe???
Has America made wine more economically based and driven? I wonder.
Rahsaan wrote:Mark Willstatter wrote:As anyone who has lived near vineyards or participated in crush will know, a healthy vineyard is full of critters.
And the monoculture planting of grapes doesn't make it easier for those critters to spread and infect the grapes? Hence the need for more and more pesticides herbicides fungicides etc?
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
I wonder what it would be like in all of these regions if only the "best" parcels were planted to vines. Aside from removing the source for crappy bulk wine, how would this change the health of the vines/grapes in the premium sites?
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
34949
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Hoke wrote:Okay.I wonder what it would be like in all of these regions if only the "best" parcels were planted to vines. Aside from removing the source for crappy bulk wine, how would this change the health of the vines/grapes in the premium sites?
Well, I like the concept, Rahsaan, but my immediate response is who's going to determine the "best" parcels? Talk about your unending arguments...
Paul Winalski
Wok Wielder
8502
Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm
Merrimack, New Hampshire
Rahsaan wrote:I'm not asking to stop monoculture, I'm just curious what the arguments are. But, I'm not sure we know that the wine is no less good than it was ages ago, as we were not alive.
Paul Winalski wrote:When did you last encounter a bottle of ropy wine? (In my 25+ years as a serious wine enthusiast, I've seen exactly ONE such bottle.)
Hoke wrote:Well, I like the concept, Rahsaan, but my immediate response is who's going to determine the "best" parcels? Talk about your unending arguments...
David M. Bueker wrote:Not to mention that it would cut off the supply of generic wine from people who actually drink it. A very elitist idea if you ask me.
AlexR wrote:The guys grow fruit to make wine to sell the stuff to pay off the mortgage on their house, feed their family, etc.
Why is there such a romanticized version?.
AlexR wrote:Mark,
It is unfair to say that only irresponsible grape growers use pesticides!
And let's not forget that pesticides come in several forms: natural and chemical, not forgetting methods such as sexual confusion.
The guys grow fruit to make wine to sell the stuff to pay off the mortgage on their house, feed their family, etc.
Why is there such a romanticized version?
Best regards,
Alex R.
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