Dessert wines

Hello everyone,

I have LOTS of questions regarding dessert wines...

I am finding dessert wines to be a very confusing. I am not really sure what makes a wine a "dessert wine". For instance, if the wine is a Sauternes or an Ice Wine...does that mean they are always sweet dessert wines? What about German whites? And French whites from Alsace? And are there any dessert reds?

I have had Ice Wine before...that was 10 yrs ago, way before I was serious about wine. I don't think I have ever really tasted a dessert wine otherwise. I have read up on the whites of Alsace and I know the German terminology for their whites, but in none of the books do they really say...a Spaltese is a dessert wine.

When I look at menus at restaurants...if a white is listed under the "Whites", and not the "Dessert" section, than is it ok for me to assume that it is dry?

I often see that foie gras is paired with a Sauternes, which I had always assumed was a dessert wine. However, if a restaurant does not have a Sauternes on the menu, would I then pick another dessert wine to pair with the foie gras?

I know there are a lot of Q's here. Thanks in advance for all your help!

Maria - There are indeed many dessert wines, and I've not tried all of them. Generally speaking, to make dessert wines, the grapes are left on the vines until the sugar levels become very high. Normally ripened grapes will tend to ferment all the sugar into alcohol and become "dry". However, once the alcohol content reaches a certain point, depending on the yeast strain used, the fermentation stops and any remaining sugar (Residual Sugar or RS) remains and makes the wine sweet. The grape variety is one factor in determining the type of dessert wine. Semillion and Sauvignon Blanc are used for Sauternes. In Germany, Riesling is most common in Auslese, Beerenauslese (BA) and Trockenbeerenauslese (TBA), but other grapes may be used also. Canadian Ice Wines usually use Vidal Blanc, a hybrid, but Riesling is becoming more common. Canadians also make Ice Wine from Cabernet Franc - yes - a red dessert wine. All these methods sacrifice a great percentage of the vine's yield, thus explaining the high cost of these wines. Another factor is the nature in which the grapes attain their surplus sugar. In Sauternes, the grapes are left on the vines until they become infected with Botrytis (the Noble Rot). This "rot" consumes the water and acids in the grapes (concentrating the sugars) and imparts a distinctive flavor into the wine while reducing its "fruity" characters. BA and TBA may also be affected by Botrytis, but not always. Auslese, BA and TBA are late harvest wines, meaning they are simply left on the vines until well past their normal ripening time, and are harvested in the order listed. Ice Wines are made from grapes that are left on the vines until they freeze. The juice is pressed while the grapes are frozen. The ice remains in the wine press and a concentrated grape syrup is what is pressed out to ferment. Not only are the sugars concentrated, but so are the acids and flavors. Ice Wines have more acidity than most other dessert wines. One reason these are referred to as "dessert" wines is not so much that they can be served with dessert, but that they "are" dessert. While touring wineries in the Niagara Peninsula during NiagaraCOOL '05, the wineries served us artesenal blue cheeses with their Ice Wines - a very nice match. I've never had foie gras, so I can't comment on that. I've had Sauternes, Auslese, BA and TBA and have enjoyed them all. I wouldn't consider Spaltese a dessert wine. Not all sweet wines are dessert wines. Not all white wines listed on the wine list of a restaurant will be dry. You sure do ask a lot of questions.

I often see that foie gras is paired with a Sauternes, which I had always assumed was a dessert wine. However, if a restaurant does not have a Sauternes on the menu, would I then pick another dessert wine to pair with the foie gras?

Personally, I will ALWAYS choose another wine over Sauternes. Especially for foie gras, I like German TBA or Eiswein (or Loire Quarts de Chaume, Austrian TBA or Alsatian SGN) because of the additional lift and life that the acidity provides. I find it necessary to penetrate the fat and refresh and invigorate the palate for yet another go (and another course or three). It's quite exhilarating. Sauternes (here comes the hate mail) too often plays the cumbersome, exhaustive ball and chain better used to end a meal.

Dessert wines can also be made by fortification. Before all the sugar is fermented out, high proof spirits are added to stop the fermentation, thus keeping significant amounts of residual sugar. Port is the most well known. Most port is also red. There are also some red muscats which make a pinkish dessert wine. Common in northern Italy.

There are positively tonnes of dessert wines out there. Some are even sparklers like (like sparkling ice wines)!

One that I tried recently that was very interesting was from Pride (in the Spring mountain district). It was a late harvest viognier with grappa.....kind of the velvet covered iron fist.....

Great questions, Maria. Howie Hart did a very good job explaining this topic, and as Michael K states, there are LOTS of dessert wines out there, both white and red.

I would like to add just a few thoughts here in answer to your questions.

Do not assume that white wines listed on a wine menu are dry, simply because they are not listed under dessert wines. If you are in doubt, ask the restaurant staff to describe the wines unknown to you. I do this all the time. If the person does not know about a particular wine, I politely ask him/her to find someone on the staff more familiar with it, or just bring out a bottle for me to read the label.

If the wine is labeled with Late Harvest, Botrytis or Ice Wine, it is safe to assume it is a dessert wine. Beyond that, look for those dessert wines names already mentioned in the thread, like Sauternes, and the multi-syllablic German names. However, a German Spatlese, although noticably sweet, is not considered to be a dessert wine. Not mentioned yet, and most definitely worth trying, is Tokaji from Hungary.

As to white vs red, my experience is that (excluding Port), the vast majority of dessert wines I have purchased and/or tasted have been white, probably on the order of 90%.

Keep experimenting ... it is just tons of fun.

-- Clark

Thanks everyone for all the info...as usual, it's extremely helpful!

Howie - Great explanation. Thank you for that.

You sure do ask a lot of questions.

I know Howie... . But at least I did warn you!

Ok, what about VTs and SGNs...I have read that VTs could be dry and you wouldn't know it until you opened it. Is this true? A friend of our gave us a bottle of 1998 Tokay Pinot Gris VT from Alsace...and I am curious to know if this is a dessert wine? Will it at least be sweet?

So...Ice Wines, Sauternes, Auslese, Beerenauslese, Trockenbeerenauslese, and Tokaji (Hungry...because I think there is a Japanese one, and that is not sweet...please correct me if I am wrong) are always dessert wines. Am I missing any other wines that are always dessert wines?

Spaltese could be sweet if it does not say trocken on the label but it also could be dry?

So...Ice Wines, Sauternes, Auslese, Beerenauslese, Trockenbeerenauslese, and Tokaji (Hungry...because I think there is a Japanese one, and that is not sweet...please correct me if I am wrong) are always dessert wines. Am I missing any other wines that are always dessert wines?

You might not want to focus too much on the term "dessert" as that is largely a personal intepretation, as seen above with the practice of serving foie gras with Sauternes.

Yes, the above wines are all sweet wines (in fact most regions in France and Italy produce some sort of sweet wine), but depending on the vintage and/or style some might go better with dessert while some might go better on their own.

For example, the distinction in France between "moelleux" and "liquoreux" means that the former is sweet but not as rich and thick as the latter. (Sort of like Auslese and BA/TBA in Germany) Whether one is better for sipping alone and the other is better for serving with dessert will depend on who you ask.

And then of course if you age these things long enough they may appear dry, although there have been tons of threads debating what actually happens to the sugar.

Spaltese could be sweet if it does not say trocken on the label but it also could be dry?

I forget the exact numbers but Trocken indicates a maximum level of residual sugar, which means that Trocken wines often have some residual sugar (especially in recent hot vintages) and might not be technically "dry" (never mind all the debates we've had over the meaning of technically dry) but they are significantly less sweet than non-Trocken wines, and so quite often are perceived as dry.

But, if the label does not say Trocken then yes, the Spatlese should be noticeably sweet (although again see the above point about age, and after 20, 30, 50 years that will not be the case).

Well, I was going to say something about not putting these wines in the "dessert" category and just considering them sweet wines, but Rahsaan beat me to it and said it better.



Mike

We tried a Banyuls w/ chocolate fondue and became total fans. The best stuff I've ever had w/ chocolate, and really nice on its own, too. Seems very similar to port, but better IMO.

http://www.banyuls.com/banyuls/pg/index ... fd4c5c051c

Maria, lots of great answers here -- there is one point in the US of some interest. The Federal excise tax is imposed on wine under 26 USC 5041:


(b) Rates of tax

(1) On still wines containing not more than 14 percent of alcohol by volume, $1.07 per wine gallon;
(2) On still wines containing more than 14 percent and not exceeding 21 percent of alcohol by volume, $1.57 per wine gallon;
(3) On still wines containing more than 21 percent and not exceeding 24 percent of alcohol by volume, $3.15 per wine gallon; ...

Although the statue doesn't use the word "dessert", wines in the second category -- i.e. over 14% alcohol -- are sometimes called "dessert wines". See the Wikipedia entry on dessert wines, for example;

"Legally in the United States, dessert wine refers to wines of 14% alcohol or greater. Historically these were fortified, as table wines were typically 12.5%. With a greater emphasis on ripe fruit, many dry unfortified wines, particularly Zinfandels, reach 15% or more and are thus legally considered dessert wines, and are taxed at a higher rate. Many dessert wines have a much lower alcohol level. For example, many German dessert wines only reach 7-8%."

I personally think of dessert wines in two categories, a wine to have with other desserts or a wine to have instead of dessert.

A loosey goosey definition, of course, but a Prosecco seems a perfect ending to many Italian meals.

[James Roscoe]

I often see that foie gras is paired with a Sauternes, which I had always assumed was a dessert wine. However, if a restaurant does not have a Sauternes on the menu, would I then pick another dessert wine to pair with the foie gras?

Personally, I will ALWAYS choose another wine over Sauternes. Especially for foie gras, I like German TBA or Eiswein (or Loire Quarts de Chaume, Austrian TBA or Alsatian SGN) because of the additional lift and life that the acidity provides. I find it necessary to penetrate the fat and refresh and invigorate the palate for yet another go (and another course or three). It's quite exhilarating. Sauternes (here comes the hate mail) too often plays the cumbersome, exhaustive ball and chain better used to end a meal.

You bubble-headed moron! What do you know about dessert wines? You probably drink desert wines! Sauternes is the best dessert wine on the planet! Why? Because I said so and your opinion counts for nothing! Read the scores in all the magazines? Have you ever heard of Chateau Y'Quem? Who died and allowed you to have an opinion. What country do you think this is? France? Go crawl back under that rock you live under.

I just thought you deserved some hate mail! Are you happy now? I actually like Sauternes, but I prefer to drink it on its own. It is to rich to drink with much else.

Have you ever heard of Chateau Y'Quem?

No...but I have heard of Chateau d'Yquem.

I often see that foie gras is paired with a Sauternes, which I had always assumed was a dessert wine. However, if a restaurant does not have a Sauternes on the menu, would I then pick another dessert wine to pair with the foie gras?

Personally, I will ALWAYS choose another wine over Sauternes. Especially for foie gras, I like German TBA or Eiswein (or Loire Quarts de Chaume, Austrian TBA or Alsatian SGN) because of the additional lift and life that the acidity provides. I find it necessary to penetrate the fat and refresh and invigorate the palate for yet another go (and another course or three). It's quite exhilarating. Sauternes (here comes the hate mail) too often plays the cumbersome, exhaustive ball and chain better used to end a meal.

You bubble-headed moron! What do you know about dessert wines? You probably drink desert wines! Sauternes is the best dessert wine on the planet! Why? Because I said so and your opinion counts for nothing! Read the scores in all the magazines? Have you ever heard of Chateau Y'Quem? Who died and allowed you to have an opinion. What country do you think this is? France? Go crawl back under that rock you live under.

I just thought you deserved some hate mail! Are you happy now? I actually like Sauternes, but I prefer to drink it on its own. It is to rich to drink with much else.

Crikey, you almost had me for a while there, BJR!

FWIW, I drank, side-by-side, '67 and '75 Y'Quem with a foie gras dish at a restaurant a few months ago. Unfortunately, the dish wasn't much at all - both the wines, particularly the freshness and amazing resilience of the stellar '75, were all that was needed on the table in this instance. As you say, James, great Sauternes' are almost a meal in themselves.

I often see that foie gras is paired with a Sauternes, which I had always assumed was a dessert wine. However, if a restaurant does not have a Sauternes on the menu, would I then pick another dessert wine to pair with the foie gras?

Personally, I will ALWAYS choose another wine over Sauternes. Especially for foie gras, I like German TBA or Eiswein (or Loire Quarts de Chaume, Austrian TBA or Alsatian SGN) because of the additional lift and life that the acidity provides. I find it necessary to penetrate the fat and refresh and invigorate the palate for yet another go (and another course or three). It's quite exhilarating. Sauternes (here comes the hate mail) too often plays the cumbersome, exhaustive ball and chain better used to end a meal.

You bubble-headed moron! What do you know about dessert wines? You probably drink desert wines! Sauternes is the best dessert wine on the planet! Why? Because I said so and your opinion counts for nothing! Read the scores in all the magazines? Have you ever heard of Chateau Y'Quem? Who died and allowed you to have an opinion. What country do you think this is? France? Go crawl back under that rock you live under.

I just thought you deserved some hate mail! Are you happy now? I actually like Sauternes, but I prefer to drink it on its own. It is to rich to drink with much else.

A nice effort James. But I've had worse!

[James Roscoe]

A nice effort James. But I've had worse!

I hope it brightened your day.

[James Roscoe]

Have you ever heard of Chateau Y'Quem?

No...but I have heard of Chateau d'Yquem.

Damn! I knew I've been misspelling that name. Thanks for the correction Bill. Do you have any in the cellar that I could double check the correct spelling?

Have you ever heard of Chateau Y'Quem?

No...but I have heard of Chateau d'Yquem.

Damn! I knew I've been misspelling that name. Thanks for the correction Bill. Do you have any in the cellar that I could double check the correct spelling?

Chat etiquette requires that such typo's are to be disregarded (and under no circumstance to be made an issue), James.

Chat etiquette requires that such typo's are to be disregarded

Does that apply to misplaced apostrophes too?

[James Roscoe]

I'm just looking for a couple of free pours of Sauternes. I spend all day correcting students' spelling and punctuation mistakes. I like it when people point out mine. I do love Sauternes though and have never had any of the fabled d'Yquem. I look forward to the day when I am able to try some and compre it to the '55 Suideraut (sic?) that I had once. This was without doubt the best wine I have ever had!

Do you have any in the cellar that I could double check the correct spelling?

Sorry, James! But I've got some nicely aged chenin that I'd be glad to drink with you.

James, your note resonated with me -- Janet and I took a very good friend to Daniel last week. Our friend is a very sophisticated art dealer with a great shop in London, extraordinary contacts in Kyoto, a world traveler who seems to know everyone and a great deal about almost everything.

Like you, he had never had a d'Yquem, although he knew a number of other Sauternes. We shared a couple of glasses of the 1995, an absolute baby, but the only d'Yquem on offer. He absolutely loved the wine, and we later sent him a couple of half bottles of earlier vintages so he could see what a wonderfully complex wine it can become.

Next time we share an offline, I'll bring a bottle for us to enjoy.

Regards, Bob

[James Roscoe]

Bob, thanks, I think Paulo is trying to get some people together in Philly this summer. I don't know any details. Maybe you could drive down? You don't need to bring the Sauternes. Your company would be better than all the d'yquem in the world.

[James Roscoe]

Do you have any in the cellar that I could double check the correct spelling?

Sorry, James! But I've got some nicely aged chenin that I'd be glad to drink with you.

Bill, you are a prince! That is also a style I am really trying to find out about.