Feelings on wine with dinner and your minor children?

What are your thoughts and practices regarding your underage children and their consumption of wine at home with dinner? The laws differ from state to state in the US, and cultural differences play a strong hand in the issue. Traditionally this is viewed as an American dilemma, but many European nations are also becoming involved in this debate. There are a lot of issues that arise here. IMO, one of the most important is teaching responsible drinking as well as defining wine as food rather than 'booze'. It is something to explore and aids the enjoyment of life. When my own children are old enough, I will no doubt encourage their appreciation of wine. I'd love to hear your opinions.

Bill, this is a most interesting topic indeed.

With the caveat that I don't have any children, I will give my opinion on what I feel is the proper place of wine in the culture as such. No doubt you have already read snippets of it here and there, as I tend to get worked up whenever encountering prohibitionist thinking - and some of this way of thinking is so latent that you can come across it when you least expect it.

Basically, I believe that what we know to be the once-traditional way of looking at wine as a product of agriculture - as food, and secondarily, accompaniment to food; as art and even poetry - (especially in the Mediterranean wine-producing countries) is the healthiest, most correct way of defining and approaching wine. Just to clear up any possible misunderstanding, I think that all wines should first and foremost be seen as products of the land. Wine is food and can be accompaniment to food, but not all wines accompany food equally well owing either to vinification style and/or the nature of varietal aromas that they display. Whatever a given wine's strength - food friendliness or playing solo, either as aperitif or as dessert - it should be seen as a food.

Now, when it comes to the place of wine at the table, here I again defer to the tradition that I think is best typified in Italian culture. I think that taking time to enjoy quality meals, quality company as well as quality wine offers the most integrated, ideal "organic" solution, if you will. Effects of alcohol abuse notwithstanding, I strongly feel that demonizing wine as being just another form of "devil liquor" or some other such verbal throwback to the Temperance movement isn't going to help curious (and rebellious) youngsters to not abuse it ... if anything, the effect is very likely to be the opposite. Having wine as part of meals, staying in charge of one's consumption and, again, maintaining a balance in life between good food, company, work, exercise and what other hobbies and interests one may have, is a surefire way of making sure that wine can offer much enjoyment and fodder for discussion both at the dinner table and in social life generally, at the same time preventing it from becoming an unhealthy fixation. Absolutes rarely offer ideal solutions in any case.

Just as it isn't healthy to down a whole bottle by oneself on a regular basis, neither is it healthy to demonize what is essentially a product of the good earth and human culture in a reactionary, nanny-like attempt at control, when problems with alcohol - the purported reason for said attempts at control - almost always lie in imbalanced approaches to life in general.

Well, that's my philosophy from where I sit anyway.

Very well said Paul. I think most wine lovers (in North America) would agree that wine is something to be celebrated and embraced within the lifestyle of a rich and healthy existence. I doubt though, that most of those same people serve Vosne-Romanee with Duck breast or Rosso Piceno with Pizza (not to mention GV with roasted pork and spargel) to their children on a regular basis. You're correct though. The Italians (and French) have the right idea.

Where's Troiano?

Agree ... when our children were young, they were given the opportunity to sample a small amount of wine at those special meals when we served it. (Funds were very tight those days, and wine was not a high priority.) More often than not, they took a small taste and immediately went back to drinking sparkling cider or something like that.

-- Clark

I have children, one still in the teens and one a young adult. There are also 9 siblings in my family of origin.

My dad is a home winemaker so we grew up with wine having a place not only at the table, but in everyday life. We picked the fruit and helped process it into the end product. One of my brothers and I have gone on to make wine ourselves.

We were allowed (diluted) wine with meals for special events when we were small, with increasing access as we got older. As we grew into teenagers, my parents never told us we couldn't have wine with dinner if wine was being served. It was an accepted and shared experience, just like the rest of the meal. None of us did the drinking-to-get-drunk thing as teenagers or young adults, and that's pretty amazing considering how many of us there are and how different we all are in temperament.

My kids have been raised in pretty much the same manner. My teenager doesn't really like any kind of alcohol at this point... he just doesn't find the taste pleasant. However, he is always certainly allowed to try what we are serving at meals.

My daughter, on the other hand, is developing quite a sophisticated appreciation of wines at an age that her friends are doing the binge drinking/party every weekend thing. She finds that behavior to be stupid and crass. She can discuss wines with people with many years more experience than herself with perfect poise and can pick out a good wine to match with meals. I have been pleased at the way she has integrated wine into an overall healthy and balanced lifestyle, and I believe that like so much else in parenting, teaching by example works quite well.

What are your thoughts and practices regarding your underage children and their consumption of wine at home with dinner?

I agree with Thomas Jefferson: Wine appreciation might be the best way to avert alcoholism. It would be good to see statistics, but from my personal experience, every alcoholic I know had/has no involvement with wine appreciation; and of everyone I know who loves wine, not one has a drinking problem. I am sure there are exceptions to this rule.

That said, I think the ability to appreciate fine wine is inborn. Again from my personal experience only, I have tried to influence relatives at an early age to appreciate wine, but when they grew into adults they couldn't care less about it. No drinking problems, though. Like with regard to smoking, if a child views alcohol as a way to rebel, he might use and abuse it. So if you encourage wine drinking, if he needs to rebel, he might select some way-out form of music to do it instead.

I have 2 girls, 13 and 7. While I don't drink wine every day, when I do and the kids ask to smell or taste it I always allow them to do so. My older one gets a small glass while the younger one dips her finger in the wine and licks it off her finger.

Alcohol was never a problem at our house or our relatives' houses when we were growing up. If our parents were having gin and tonics or liqueur or wine (usualy Mateus) my brothers and I were also allowed to drink a bit. Christmas and New Year we always had Cold Duck. I don"t recall anyone ever being drunk or tipsy when we were having alcohol. This kind of environment, I feel, made us comfortable with it and satisfied our curiosity about it at an early age.

That said, I think the ability to appreciate fine wine is inborn.

Covert, while this could in theory generate howls of disdain from the "we are all the same" types, I think you are onto something. Appreciating wine, I think, requires certain behaviours - a certain reflective, unhurried approach - that some people, particularly driven/all-or-nothing personalities, have difficulty adopting or may not even want to. On a separate plane but also having an influence is the ability to discern and differentiate particular aromas and textures. Some folks prefer to consume food uncritically and certainly without having to think about anything - just get it into the gut so you can have energy, then move onto your next task. This kind of thinking doesn't really pave the way for wine appreciation.

Cynthia, your story certainly sounds like an ideal example!

[Jenise]

Bill, I chose cat rescue over having children so may not be qualified to speak to this, and fine wine wasn't part of my childhood though my parents always encouraged us to taste whatever they were having in order to remove the romance of prohibition from alcohol, but I tend to agree with others about the benefits of openness and availability.

One other advantage that I've never heard brought up in the many conversations we've all had about this over the years on this board came to light a few weeks ago when a friend's daughter, an honors bio-engineering student at U of Washington spent a weekend with us. I asked about partying/drinking on campus. And she said, "Oh, it's there all the time. But I'm so used to Dad's good wine at home, I can't stand the taste of the crap students buy so I don't bother."

My family started us with a sip at special occassions at fourteen or so, up to a glass at eighteen. We did the same with ours, though they tended to this day to spit it out!

In New Hampshire it is illegal to serve alcoholic beverages to underage children under any circustances, presumably including church or other place of worship.

We have offered our teenage children a small glass of wine with dinner since we became fans. My daughter, now eighteen, never liked the wine, or alcohol of any kind. My son, now fifteen, will drink a small glass if it is a style he enjoys. We all view wine as a contributor to the over all enjoyment of the meal.

I believe that attitude contributes to a healthy approach to alcohol in general. I remember kids from tea-tottler families who just could wait to gag down that which they were forbidden when I was in high school. Thus far my children have been responsible consumers of alcohol.

Where's Troiano?

He's expanding his cellar to hold another 50 cases of Yquem that he bought recently. That's what I heard throught the "grapevine".

No kids here, so maybe I don't have much room to give an opinion, but I have one anyway!

I think French and most Italian (and homemade) wines are food, and kids should be allowed to taste and enjoy in moderation. It sounds like a lot of you are doing just that, with good results. California wine, along with Australian and "international style" wines on the other hand, are alcoholic beverages and should be shunned.

Where's Troiano?

He's expanding his cellar to hold another 50 cases of Yquem that he bought recently. That's what I heard throught the "grapevine".

QPR shopping!

Where's Troiano?

Good question Joe, it must be two years or more.

I think French and most Italian (and homemade) wines are food, and kids should be allowed to taste and enjoy in moderation. It sounds like a lot of you are doing just that, with good results. California wine, along with Australian and "international style" wines on the other hand, are alcoholic beverages and should be shunned.

Hmmm. I'm guessing my irony-meter is on the blink today. Or perhaps it's International Most Egregious Generalisation Day and I hadn't noticed...?
cheers,
Graeme

Where's Troiano?

Good question Joe, it must be two years or more.

I seem to remember a rather interesting thread on this very topic back in the day...

Where's Troiano?

Good question Joe, it must be two years or more.

I seem to remember a rather interesting thread on this very topic back in the day...

As do I Joe, as do I.

I think the ability to appreciate fine wine is inborn.

An interesting thought. I think that wine lovers tend to be either very analytical or very romantic (or a disturbing mélange of both). For the most part, uneducated or indiscriminate people don't understand the allure of wine. BUT, they do seem to understand wine marketing. I can think of no other reason for the continued existence of Gallo.

Bill,
I don't know any of your laws - but do they actually state it is 'illegal to drink' under a certain age.
Here in NZ it is not illegal to drink under a certain age. The laws only apply to licensed premises and supply of alcohol to anyone under 18. So you can't go into a shop that sells alcohol and buy it if you are under 18, you also cannot drink on licensed premises if you are under 18, but you can be on licensed premises if you are under 18 and you are with your parent or legal guardian - if the license of the premises allow it.
Away from licensed premises, a child under 18 is allowed to be given alcohol by their parent or legal guardian, but not by anyone else.
So if you are in your own home and want to give your child a glass of wine with dinner, you are not breaking the law. In fact you are probably teaching them responsible drinking.
Cheers,
Sue

Here in Montreal where I grew up, we are surrounded by many nationalities incuding a lot of Italians. I've always lived in duplex housing and my 3 landlords coincedentally have been Italian.

Growing up, I was always treated as a son by them, including feeding me homemade pasta and food at every available opportunity. Some of my earliest and fondest memories are eating lunch with them and always being offered and served a small glass of Pisa (like 7-UP) that always had an inch or so of homemade wine at the bottom.

I always thought that was very cool.

Now, whenever any close children are around for supper and we're having wine they are always welcome and encouraged to toast with us and try whatever they like.

Oh yeah, that was an ....intense thread.

We have always (since we joined families, when he was 12) offered David a taste if he asked. As he got to be 15 or so, a small glass. When he started driving at 16, the rule was he couldn't have any if he intended to drive that night (NY law is zero tolerance for alcohol in drivers under 21, his license is very important to him!).

Has this increased or decreased the chances of him having a drinking problem? I don't know. He's 18, and certainly goes to parties where kids drink. He knows that driving after even 1 drink alcohol could lead to loss of his license, and he doesn't (he also knows our policy that if you get stuck, you call, no reprecussions for honesty). But I'm pretty sure that some of the nights when he's staying at a friend's, he probably drinks more than I would think is wise. But that is true of kids I know whose parents are teetotalers, social drinkers, and flat out drunks.

What I hope is in a long term basis, we've taught him by example:
1) that wine is a part of dinner
2) getting drunk is not the purpose of alcohol
3) one never drives while drunk (and the standard isn't "do I feel drunk?" or "I don't think I had that much", but rather "I know exactly what I had, and I'm well under limit").