The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21880

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Robin Garr » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:49 am

From today’s 30 Second Wine Advisor ...

Have you noticed that most French wines don't reveal the grape variety they use? With a few exceptions, notably Alsace, you're expected to know what grapes the region favors. Burgundy? It's Pinot Noir or Chardonnay! Bordeaux? Cabernet, Merlot, and maybe a couple more. In the Rhône and Provence, there may be up to 13 grapes in the blend, but we're expected to know what they are.

So the other day I picked up a pretty, light-red wine from the Coteaux du Loir, an out-of-the-way little region a bit north of Tours in the Loire Valley, but don't let that look-alike name fool you: The Loir is a smallish stream, a tributary that runs into the larger Loire a few miles to the south.

Same region, same grapes, though, so I assumed that this wine was probably Cabernet Franc, Gamay, possibly Malbec (known in this region as Côt), maybe but not likely Pinot Noir, or most likely a blend.

So imagine my surprise when a quick trip to importer Kermit Lynch's very informative website revealed that this wine was something far more obscure and, in my opinion, much more exciting: It's 100 percent Pineau d'Aunis (""Pee-no Doh-nee"), which sounds like "Pinot" but is another grape entirely.

Château de Chenonceau, one of the scores of beautiful palaces that line the Loire Valley.
(Wikimedia Commons)

Image

Pineau d'Aunis is an ancient grape that was once so popular that history records it as a favorite of French King Henri IV and Britain’s Henry III Plantagenêt, who was king back in the days when English nobility was still more French than the French. Nowadays the grape is still just as good, but, supplanted by more commercial varieties, it's just about as rare as the spotted owl. Made by only a handful of producers in tiny quantities, it produces a complex, subtle, light and rather low-alcohol red that typically shows intriguing scents of fragrant white pepper - white, not black, try it, you'll see - and the fascinating stony minerality that the Loire region does so well.

If you're hearing my love for this grape in these affectionate words, you are listening well. It is probably my No. 1 favorite offbeat, obscure variety. And sadly for me, it iss almost impossible to find. My past favorite, Puzelat Pineau d'Aunis "La Tesnière" Pineau d'Aunis, doesn't appear to be made any more, to my great sorrow.

So I couldn't have been happier to discover that Lynch's import, Pascal Janvier 2015 Cuvée du Rosier Coteaux du Loir Rouge, is all Pineau d'Aunis, and it's a brisk, white-peppery and mineral-laden pleasure to sip or serve with food, particularly dishes that meet its subtle aromatics with earthy flavors like truffles or goat cheese.

You'll find my tasting report in a separate post, but before you get there, I'd like to hear if you've got a favorite offbeat, obscure and hard-to-find variety that you drink with delight when you manage to find it. If you'd like to talk about it, I'd love to have you post your favorite on either our WineLovers Facebook Page or on our WineLovers Discussion Group forum (WLDG).

Finally, we're talking about all the red Loire grapes and wines in November's edition of Wine Focus, our popular monthly wine forum discussion topic. Click November Wine Focus: Loire Reds: Cabernet Franc, etc, and bring your tasting notes, comments and questions about Loire Valley reds and other wines made from Loire red grapes around the world.
no avatar
User

Jim Grow

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1261

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:31 am

Location

Rockbridge Ohio

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Jim Grow » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:36 pm

My favorite "off-beat" grape variety is the German Siegerrebe. A hybrid of Madeleine Angevine X Gewurztraminer, it often achieves a much higher must weight that other German white grapes. I have only seen it offered at Sam's in Chicago and that was many years ago. It frequently is low in acidity but when vinified well can be wonderful if an in-your-face flavor profile similar to Scheurebe but with a prominent Muscat flavor. My next favorite wine in this category would be the Pinot Saint George. I only found a couple of bottles many years ago from a producer (?) in central/southern Cal. A very dark black wine, it had a wonderful mushroom/earthy/blackberry flavor profile. I think it might have been related to Charbono. These two wines may be extinct now.
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21880

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Robin Garr » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:08 pm

Jim Grow wrote: ... Siegerrebe ... Pinot Saint George ..

Good ones, Jim, and thanks for the explainer. I guess my second favorite "odd grape" after Pinot d'Aunis might be Schiava, aka Trollinger (aka Trollinger or Vernatch), which might be kind of like Pineau d'Aunis with its fragrant pepper and stony mineral character. I'm just stuck in the AFWE rut, I guess. :mrgreen:
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4972

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Tim York » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:06 pm

I have a lot of sympathy for the European approach of naming wines by the place from which they come rather than by grape variety. Over many generations we have become accustomed to knowing how the wines of a particular locality should taste with grape variety being secondary and somewhat technical information. Chablis tastes very different from Pouilly-Fuissé in spite of both coming from Chardonnay. In general I am most interested in grape variety proportions where blends are authorised, e.g. Bordeaux, Languedoc. And, of course, in areas like Alsace, Austria, Germany, Valais (CH) and Jura where different grapes may be used on the same site, it is essential to know the variety. In this case, however, the grape variety is usually shown on the label.

So returning to the question about offbeat grapes, I first ask myself about offbeat characterful localities. In this category we have, for example, Marcillac, Fronton, Jurançon, Bierzo, Valdeorras, Rias Baixas, Etna and it is perhaps no accident that they mostly have their own indigenous grape varieties, namely Fer Servadou (AKA Mansois), Négrette, Gros & Petit Manseng, Mencia, Godello, Albariño, Nerello Mascalese (R)/Caricante (W), which give brilliant results in those places. As all but the first three are rapidly acquiring a cult status and are hardly offbeat any longer, my first choice goes to Jurançon and to its Gros & Petit Manseng, which produce much classier wines than the first two.

Valais (CH) has wines from both international and local varieties and I have a special affection for its offerings from Petite Arvine (W) and Cornalin (R). Health warning - both these grape names also appear in nearby Valle d'Aosta; PA is the same grape in both places but the Valdaostan Cornalin is known as Humagne in Valais and is therefore different from the Valaisan grape of the same name.

As an afterthought, I should add that Blaufränkisch grown in Austrian Burgenland is acquiring certain pretensions, e.g. top wines from Moric at >€60/bottle. There is certainly potential there but, the last time I tasted this range, the top wines were IMO spoilt by overbearing oak treatment. Not the grape's fault, of course!
Last edited by Tim York on Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tim York
no avatar
User

Howie Hart

Rank

The Hart of Buffalo

Posts

6389

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Location

Niagara Falls, NY

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Howie Hart » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:41 pm

Tim York wrote:As an afterthought, I should add that Blaufränkisch grown in Austrian Burgenland is acquiring certain pretensions, e.g. top wines from Moric at >€60/bottle. There is certainly potential there but, the last time I tasted this range, the top wines were IMO spoilt by overbearing oak treatment. Not the grape's fault, of course!

Blaufränkisch (AKA Lemberger in Germany) is being grown in the Finger Lakes and one grower, who I am friends with here in Niagara County, NY. I've been buying grapes from him for many years. I recently bottled over 100 bottles of Lemberger. Unfortunately, my taste buds are still shot, but my kids like it.
Chico - Hey! This Bottle is empty!
Groucho - That's because it's dry Champagne.
no avatar
User

Howie Hart

Rank

The Hart of Buffalo

Posts

6389

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Location

Niagara Falls, NY

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Howie Hart » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:42 pm

Tim York wrote:As an afterthought, I should add that Blaufränkisch grown in Austrian Burgenland is acquiring certain pretensions, e.g. top wines from Moric at >€60/bottle. There is certainly potential there but, the last time I tasted this range, the top wines were IMO spoilt by overbearing oak treatment. Not the grape's fault, of course!

Blaufränkisch (AKA Lemberger in Germany) is being grown in the Finger Lakes and one grower, who I am friends with here in Niagara County, NY. I've been buying grapes from him for many years. I recently bottled over 100 bottles of Lemberger. Unfortunately, my taste buds are still shot, but my kids like it.
Chico - Hey! This Bottle is empty!
Groucho - That's because it's dry Champagne.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35999

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by David M. Bueker » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:44 pm

White: Scheurebe
Red: Zweigelt
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11874

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Dale Williams » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:04 pm

Way too many to name. Trollinger/Schiava was first I though of, but Robin already mentioned. Grignolino would be up there. Nerello Macscalese, Romorantin, etc.
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21880

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Robin Garr » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:25 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Red: Zweigelt

I'm very fond of Zweigelt also. And it kind of fits into a pattern with Pineau d'Aunis and Schiava/Trollinger, now that I think about it.
no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2001

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Bill Hooper » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:31 pm

I don't know how off-beat it is, but I love Silvaner. St. Laurent is another grape that I got to work with in Germany and can be outstanding. I'd like to plant and make wines with both of these varieties here in the Willamette, but they're probably not such an easy sell.

Cheers,
Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com
no avatar
User

Steve Kirsch

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

139

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:53 pm

Location

Detroit, MI

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Steve Kirsch » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:09 pm

Believe it or not it's Pineau d'Aunis, although there are several more varieties that are not far behind. Domaine de Bellivière Rouge Gorge and Hommage à Louis Derré are two favorites whose prices have (sad for me) risen sharply in the past few years. The late lamented Clos Roche Blanche l'Arpent Rouge is another favorite--and I'm down to my last bottle...sniff.
no avatar
User

Oliver McCrum

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1076

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am

Location

Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Oliver McCrum » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:38 pm

Either Rossese di Dolceaqua or Pelaverga, depending on the day.

I agree entirely with Silvaner (above), the better Franken versions are excellent.
Oliver
Oliver McCrum Wines
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35999

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by David M. Bueker » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:12 pm

Dirler-Cade makes excellent Silvaner in Alsace.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

9002

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Paul Winalski » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:55 pm

Another vote for petit manseng, and the sweet Jurancon that is made from it.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

4043

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Peter May » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:12 pm

Carignan (aka Mazuelo/Carinena)

Bought a case after having it at a restaurant, tasted some wonderful old-vine examples from Chile and drank some super oldvine Carignan from Esporaro in Spain this weekend - and also their enjoyable white wine from the rare White Carignan.
no avatar
User

JC (NC)

Rank

Lifelong Learner

Posts

6679

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

Fayetteville, NC

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by JC (NC) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:42 pm

I guess Scheurebe would be mine if you can call it offbeat. I also like Petit Manseng and a Greek red grape that I can't name right now.
no avatar
User

Joe Moryl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

984

Joined

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Location

New Jersey, USA

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Joe Moryl » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:32 pm

Getting to know Portuguese wines means becoming familiar with many grapes not much grown elsewhere. Unfortunately, getting a handle on these as monovarietal wines is not that easy, since most Portuguese wines are blends. Having said that, Encruzado, grown almost exclusively in the Dão region, is a very fine white variety. Wines made with Bical, grown mostly again in Dão and Bairrada regions, lends an exotic, smoky note to various white wines. And speaking of the Bairrada region, the Baga grape is very difficult to work with, but when it is done right, it can be great (think Pinot or Nebbiolo).

In the Finger Lakes, and other cool climate regions, the hybird Vignoles can produce a lot of sugar, while maintaining acidity, making some really fine dessert style wines.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10883

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:35 am

I am in for Gros Manseng plus.....Grenache Blanc!!
no avatar
User

JC (NC)

Rank

Lifelong Learner

Posts

6679

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

Fayetteville, NC

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by JC (NC) » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:05 pm

Yes, I have had some nice Vignoles and also Vidal Blanc.
no avatar
User

Patrick Martin

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

348

Joined

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:28 am

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Patrick Martin » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:28 pm

Any love for Pinotage here?
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10883

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:40 pm

Pinotage..I doubt it :P .
Better watch out for Peter May, the big flag bearer. Does he post here?
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

10711

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Bill Spohn » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:49 pm

I'm partial to Greco....
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10883

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: Wine Advisor: What’s your favorite “offbeat” grape?

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:38 pm

Bill Hooper wrote:I don't know how off-beat it is, but I love Silvaner. St. Laurent is another grape that I got to work with in Germany and can be outstanding. I'd like to plant and make wines with both of these varieties here in the Willamette, but they're probably not such an easy sell.

Cheers,
Bill


Hi Bill. Your mention of Silvaner reminded to take a looksie as to what was around my area. On a shopping expedition to West Ed Mall, I found time to visit the wine store in the mall and came across a 2014 Franken Silvaner from Weingut Brennfleck. Look forward to checking it out.
no avatar
User

wnissen

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1267

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:16 pm

Location

Livermore, CA

Re: Wine Advisor: What's your favorite "offbeat" grape?

by wnissen » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:33 pm

I might name Scheurebe or Silvaner, except that they're not really offbeat in the strict sense, being grown in multiple regions and countries. My choice would be Altesse, which is pretty much only found in Savoie / Savoy. There's just something inimicable about it, the way it kind of smells like Queen Anne's Lace (for those who have visited Maryland) and has matching filigree texture to do with it. Wikipedia says there's 300 hectares / 700 acres in France. For comparison, that's about half the acreage of pinot blanc in California.
Walter Nissen
Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ClaudeBot, FB-extagent, Google AgentMatch, iphone swarm, Tim York and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign