Total Wine & More: Your opinions?

[Robin Garr]

They're opening a big box store on the snootier side of Louisville's suburbs this week. Should I be happy, or should I care? I doubt that this is going to pull me away from several wine-geek shops that I patronize, but curious what any of you who have Total Wine & More in your communities think of the chain.

[David M. Bueker]

Guys with earpieces who act like they are experts. It's just Target for wine. Went in our local TW once to check it out. Never again. I will use them when I am on the road due to the large selection, but otherwise, no.

I've used Total when I've been travelling in the USA. They have a wide range, e.g. I've bought Virginia wines from a Total in Tampa, Florida.

You can view what wines they have online.

Surely having an additional wine store is an advantage in giving choice and maybe price competition?

[Robin Garr]

Surely having an additional wine store is an advantage in giving choice and maybe price competition?

How does that work out with Walmart?

Surely having an additional wine store is an advantage in giving choice and maybe price competition?

How does that work out with Walmart?

Piggybacking on that, while I would never advocate a wine retail monopoly, most of the wine-geek friendly stores that we all love cannot survive based solely on our winegeek purchases. They also need 'regular' people and balancing the appeal to the different demographics can be tricky. And, when too many regulars prefer to go elsewhere to the Walmarts and Targets of wine, our winegeek stores close. It happened here in Chapel Hill, where the one legitimate place to buy wine in the region closed. Now I have to ship!

[Robin Garr]

Piggybacking on that, while I would never advocate a wine retail monopoly, most of the wine-geek friendly stores that we all love cannot survive based solely on our winegeek purchases. They also need 'regular' people and balancing the appeal to the different demographics can be tricky. And, when too many regulars prefer to go elsewhere to the Walmarts and Targets of wine, our winegeek stores close. It happened here in Chapel Hill, where the one legitimate place to buy wine in the region closed. Now I have to ship!

That's legitimate. Happily, in this market, the "geek" stores also serve a broader public, because there's probably not enough of a hard core of geeks to support a place with an inventory like Chambers Street. But the smaller stores do very well with plenty of geek goodies, a good selection of more popular wines, well curated, and with knowledgeable staff to help along the less engaged crowd.

When Total first came to South Florida I was afraid that their strategy was going to be cut prices, put all the local wine stores out of business, then raise prices. That has not proven to be the case. There are more small, geeky stores specializing in hand crafted small production wine than ever here. I'm very happy having access to Total. They do have some wines that I like, such as some hard to find Argentine Malbecs, that you don't see anywhere else. I don't trust their salesforce or their "top wines of the year" one bit, but if you know what you're looking for you can do well there and even find some new little gems. For me it's a two or three times a year stop.

They also have a great selection of liquor at very reasonable prices.

... Now I have to ship!

Join the club. I can't feel too sorry for you though, since you had access to about one-quarter of the East Coast's Rougeard imports while it lasted!

LOL..these east coast guys have all the fun!

I think the Target/Walmart analogy is a good one. In some markets, they will drive out all the small merchants, while in others, there will be room for both. On the whole I think they are a net negative for wine lovers. There are a lot of people in my area (which has some good smaller shops) who think they are getting good prices and advice when shopping at Total, when they are not. Total mostly sells things that can be produced in sufficiently large quantities to stock a nationwide chain. The wines that might appear to be small, obscure producers are often not (usually 'selected by Alfio Moriconi', i.e. a captive import). They also seem to have a lot of stealth house labels, especially among the domestic wines. So the real range of 'geek' wines is pretty limited, and the better local shops beat them on price.

There is one near me. I go there very occasionally...no more than once a year or so. They have a very large selection and sometimes find something interesting. If you folks are upset at them selling wines at low prices to the masses and driving wine stores out of business, you ought to be furious at Trader Joe's. I pay little or no attention to their recommendations seeing I seem to know at least as much as their staff I have run into.

I continue to buy my wine from a variety of sources....wine stores (both big and small box), membership clubs like Costco, mail order both from wine merchants and from producers...even an occasional foray to a vineyard here in the Northern VA wine region. I am pleased that I have so many options and such variety. I simply see Total Wine as just another option.

Best Wishes,
Glenn

[David M. Bueker]

So, no Trader Joe's near me.

Total Wine is actually suing Connecticut to allow them to sell items below cost. They can then drive out any competition using corporate money.

So, no Trader Joe's near me.

Total Wine is actually suing Connecticut to allow them to sell items below cost. They can then drive out any competition using corporate money.

Capitalism so often tends to oligopoly!

If you folks are upset at them selling wines at low prices to the masses and driving wine stores out of business, you ought to be furious at Trader Joe's.

I'm not an economist but there is probably a delicate balance for the 'healthy' amount of competition. More outlets selling good quality wine will probably increase overall levels of interest. But, if there are too many outlets then the ones with more delicate business models (i.e. more winegeek friendly) will have a harder time surviving. Such is life. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure it's tricky.

[James Roscoe]

The Trone boys are slick and not in a good way. On the other hand I met a lot of good people who worked for Total Wine and learned a lot about wine at their weekly tastings.

Surely having an additional wine store is an advantage in giving choice and maybe price competition?

How does that work out with Walmart?

Is Walmart additional? Isn't there one there already?

From my (acknowledged limited) US experience Walmart wines are not of interest to people reading this board and pose no threat to independent wine stores, and the people who buy wines from Walmart wouldn't visit an independent wine store

[Robin Garr]

[quote="Peter May"Is Walmart additional? Isn't there one there already?

From my (acknowledged limited) US experience Walmart wines are not of interest to people reading this board and pose no threat to independent wine stores, and the people who buy wines from Walmart wouldn't visit an independent wine store[/quote]
Peter, I'm talking about the phenomenon of Walmart (and other mega-corporate "big box" stores) having a devastating impact on mom-and-pop retailers. It's not always about wine.

There are several Total Wine stores in the Triangle area of NC. I visit them occasionally and have found a fairly good selection of Port wines (more than in other stores) and Oregon Pinots. I believe I also bought some nice Sauternes there.

The Trone boys are slick and not in a good way.

I shopped at Total two or three times in the past when they had a sale on something, but I've never been impressed. Their beer selection's better than their wine selection.

But I'm now boycotting them for political reasons. Founder David Trone tried to buy the congressional seat in the district I live in. He spent $12 million of his own money -- I believe that's an all-time record. And he still lost. The candidate who beat him, whom I support and volunteered for, Jamie Raskin, passed legislation in the state Senate opening up Maryland to direct shipping from wineries (it had previously been a felony). Could that have been Trone's motivation for entering the race? I never saw any news articles speculating on this and I suspect Trone had many other reasons for flushing $12 million down the political toilet. But I was always curious if it was a factor. Regardless, I don't feel like sending him any more of my money.

[Robin Garr]

opening up Maryland to direct shipping from wineries (it had previously been a felony).

Leaving Kentucky as one of the last WSWA bought-and-paid for felony states, and now he's here, with a big store and big bucks. Oh, joy.

I reckon that Total will be a place for the new ones who are interested in wine and are just starting out, this is a good thing as more and more people will get curious and maybe ask around for better wines. We all started, I suppose, with drinking a not so good wine until we dug deeper and got access to the best ones. There is always the fear of these big companies outselling the small ones and potentially close them out. I hope that doesn't happen in your area. What can we do though? but keep supporting the stores that we love and maybe spread the word to some people who are interested and inquire.

Well they are 1 billion times better than BevMo but I generally try to take my business elsewhere when it comes to wine. Great beer and spirits selection which I do purchase from them. Generally the employees no nothing about wine. The annoying part is they want to talk to you about it. On occasion they will have Champagne at really nice prices which when combined with their coupons works out really well. My store, has the best local selection of Ridge wine as well. I was in there the other day and they had 5 or 6 different bottlings at very good prices.

Jason

I take it Robin fears that a branch of Total will cause small independent shops to close.

Thinking about my home city of St Albans over the years I have seen wine shops both independent and members of chains come and go, sometimes because the entire chains goes.

In UK the vast majority of wines are sold by supermarkets;in St Albans we have these supermarkets
Tesco
Sainsbury
Morrisons
Marks & Spencer
all sell wine, and have large ranges

we have a large Majestic wine store -- perhaps analagous to Total with 8-12 bottles open for tasting all day every day

all above are open 7 days a week
we also have
- a very good independent packed with individualist wines, also they do a free tasting each weekend and organise events with visiting winemakers and an annual wine fair
- a new independent wine shop still finding its niche
- a very upmarket shop selling only top Champagne and spirits
- an independent seilling small production growers wines, classed growths, very expensive California wines
- an independent booze shop with brand wines
- many small shops, grocers, general stores etc sell wines

within 20 minutes drive we have
Aldi & Lidl - low price German owned supermakets with very keenly priced wines
ASDA - (ownded by Walmart) supermarket with large range of very low priced but not interesting wines
The Wine Society cellars, excellent huge range of wines, keen prices

All above do home deliveries from internet orders except for Aldi, Lidl and the independents
Plus we can order from a host of internet only wine shops and other stores or direct from wineries abroad.

Hence I can't see why Total should cause a *good* independent to close

There is always the fear of these big companies outselling the small ones and potentially close them out. I hope that doesn't happen in your area. inquire.

I am a little more concerned that over time there will be fewer and fewer independent wineMAKERS to support. It seems like the BIG GUYS are buying the new wave winemakers out one by one. Of course, I understand the desire to retire or move into other fields, but it is still sad.