Wine expressions I'd like never to see or hear again:

"Killer juice..."

"Hedonistic"
"liquid Viagra"
"100 points"

Mark Lipton

"Sexy"
Overly discriptive words as in "wild" berries - how it that different than "berries?" - "Field" flowers, "meadow" grass, etc.

[Robin Garr]

I've never really been down with just-plain "juice."

[Jenise]

I've never really been down with just-plain "juice."

+1. Makes me cringe. It's wine--'juice' doesn't even save you a syllable.

[Robin Garr]

I've never really been down with just-plain "juice."

+1. Makes me cringe. It's wine--'juice' doesn't even save you a syllable.

It seems like a strategy for just-past-20-somethings who still feel nervous about what Mom and Dad might say about them consuming adult beverages, so they pretend it's not.

The taste of "Pencil" lead

I certainly hope nobody's been going around tasting pencils made with actual lead, though I do wonder how the taste may differ from that of other leads.
"Mmmm, this wine has the fabulous flavor characteristic of lead paint."

The taste of "Pencil" lead

I certainly hope nobody's been going around tasting pencils made with actual lead, though I do wonder how the taste may differ from that of other leads.
"Mmmm, this wine has the fabulous flavor characteristic of lead paint."

Alex, I've had this conversation before. Pencil "lead" is graphite, which does indeed have a distinctive smell (though not taste AFAIK) that I often get in wines that have seen time in French oak. YMMV of course. BTW, real lead does have a distinctive taste: it's sweet. That's why lead paint is so dangerous to small children. Not only is it dangerously toxic, but it tastes sweet. Not a good combination.

Mark Lipton

[Jenise]

It seems like a strategy for just-past-20-somethings who still feel nervous about what Mom and Dad might say about them consuming adult beverages, so they pretend it's not.

Who I hear it from is ITB types--insider terminology used to commoditize it and distance themselves from the passion side of wine involvement in order to prove they're cooler than the moneyed fools they sell it to and secretly would trade places with. It's a have's vs. the have-not's thing.

[Robin Garr]

Who I hear it from is ITB types--insider terminology used to commoditize it and distance themselves from the passion side of wine involvement in order to prove they're cooler than the moneyed fools they sell it to and secretly would trade places with. It's a have's vs. the have-not's thing.

Interesting analysis. That makes sense, too. Well, it doesn't, but it does, if you know what I mean.

Would you say it's still generational, though? Younger (if not 20-something) ITB types? Just speculating ...

I'm more tolerant (or possibly just thicker/denser) than most here.

OK, I admit I'm not fond of the sexy, Viagra, etc expressions.

But while I'm not really a "killer juice" type person, I know several quite knowledgeable and passionate wine lovers (pro and amateur) who occasionally say "good juice" or "nice juice!" Fine by me. I can pretty much guarantee they care as much about wine as anyone in this forum

Graphite/pencil lead is a pretty informative term as Mark says - how else does one recognize Pauillac in a blind tasting?
And of course lead is the standard term (in and out of winespeak) for graphite pencil core, it has nothing to do with the mineral (except for ancients not knowing composition of graphite).
Wild berries often seem different (tangier, less bred for high sugars) than cultivated. Meadow grass seems different to me than lawn grass (simply because lawns are generally mowed so grasses don't flower/seed), etc. I don't generally use those terms, but really don't get bothered if someone else does. I think complaining about other's word use (unless it's factually incorrect) just discourages people from commenting

The juice thing really irritates me, but I'm sensitive to language and have a lot of idiosyncratic pet peeves.

On the generational issue, maybe. But if you look at other wine boards it seems to be a common expression among people of all ages. I think the overarching dynamic is a different approach to wine culture. I.E. the people who say 'juice' are also likely to say 'Bojo', 'Moose', 'Corton Charlie', etc., in their valiant attempt to 'demystify' the world of wine.

But, I try to live and let live.

On the generational issue, maybe. But if you look at other wine boards it seems to be a common expression among people of all ages. I think the overarching dynamic is a different approach to wine culture. I.E. the people who say 'juice' are also likely to say 'Bojo', 'Moose', 'Corton Charlie', etc., in their valiant attempt to 'demystify' the world of wine.

I dunno. Let's see, why look at other boards? A quick search on this one finds frequent references to "Bojo" from Tim York, Otto N, and Sam Platt. Pretty much all people in same culture as myself. Even I have used it in subject lines (which for some reason are very short in this software compared to others). "Corton Charlie" seems to be used by.....gasp...Hoke! Plus Lou Kessler and others.
In any case I think we can agree Otto and Lou/Hoke means it's not generational.
Search also finds at least one person decrying "juice" in this thread using it in their tasting notes.

I might be wrong, but when people say "graphite" or "pencil lead" I think they are referring to the smell of pencil shavings, which contain wood, graphite, clay binder and some wax.

Does graphite itself really smell, Mark? I can't say I have particularly noticed any when I have handled it in pure form, or even as "leads" for drawing pencils, though I haven't been consciously sniffing it. I thought the carbon atoms were pretty much bound into their crystalline structure.

I loathe

pop and pour, popped'n'poured etc

"wine grower" gives a stupid image of wine bottles hanging from vines

On the generational issue, maybe. But if you look at other wine boards it seems to be a common expression among people of all ages. I think the overarching dynamic is a different approach to wine culture. I.E. the people who say 'juice' are also likely to say 'Bojo', 'Moose', 'Corton Charlie', etc., in their valiant attempt to 'demystify' the world of wine.

I dunno. Let's see, why look at other boards? A quick search on this one finds frequent references to "Bojo" from Tim York, Otto N, and Sam Platt. Pretty much all people in same culture as myself. Even I have used it in subject lines (which for some reason are very short in this software compared to others). "Corton Charlie" seems to be used by.....gasp...Hoke! Plus Lou Kessler and others.
In any case I think we can agree Otto and Lou/Hoke means it's not generational.
Search also finds at least one person decrying "juice" in this thread using it in their tasting notes.

True, there are exceptions. But I would still imagine a more thorough analysis of a broader range of people would reveal the cultural splits I'm talking about. Although I could be wrong!

[Robin Garr]

I might be wrong, but when people say "graphite" or "pencil lead" I think they are referring to the smell of pencil shavings, which contain wood, graphite, clay binder and some wax.

I agree, and would add that the aromas of pencil-sharpener shavings and dried oregano seem very similar to me, and as an herbal note, "oregano" may make more sense than "lead" as a wine descriptor. This only works if you agree with me about the oregano-pencil shavings analogy, though!

Robert Parker's "melted tar" reference to a bouquet.....I've never smelled "melted tar" in any wine!

[Robin Garr]

Robert Parker's "melted tar" reference to a bouquet.....I've never smelled "melted tar" in any wine!

The addition of "melted" adds an unfortunate mental image, Drew, but that said, "tar" is a fair descriptor for a scorchy torrefied/black coffee character that I often find in Piemontese Nebbiolos.

"wine grower" gives a stupid image of wine bottles hanging from vines

But wine maker doesn't imply they also grow grapes and grape growers can be growing table grapes or culinary grapes instead of wine grapes and needn't be making wine even if they're growing wine grapes.

A term used in South Africa that I've come to like is 'wine farm' for a place that grows grapes and makes wine, and I'm happy with 'wine farmer' and 'wine grower'.

[James Roscoe]

When you work in a store you will say pretty much anything to make a sale I am afraid. At least in most stores. People want to hear what they want to hear in most cases.

Hedonistic. People are hedonistic; wines aren't.

I dunno. Let's see, why look at other boards? A quick search on this one finds frequent references to "Bojo" from Tim York, Otto N, and Sam Platt. Pretty much all people in same culture as myself. Even I have used it in subject lines (which for some reason are very short in this software compared to others). "Corton Charlie" seems to be used by.....gasp...Hoke! Plus Lou Kessler and others.
In any case I think we can agree Otto and Lou/Hoke means it's not generational.
Search also finds at least one person decrying "juice" in this thread using it in their tasting notes.

Is it a spelling thing. Or, maybe just saving some keystrokes? Actually I am guilty of using Bojo for Beaujolais. AND, how about sweet tannins?