NYTimes: Asimov On The Natural Wine Movement

On today's NYTimes, Eric weighs in on the natural wine movement:
NYTimes:NaturalWineMovement

As usual, well-written. I thought it was an even-handed treatment of the vitriol that is oftentimes displayed by both sides of the issue. Maybe a bit superficial because of its brevity; but balanced and non-judgemental.
But I am shocked...absolutely shocked...that he didn't mention sweet Alice. Heads are gonna roll at the NYTimes upper level because of the (presumed intentional) omission. Or...gasp...maybe Eric doesn't think Alice has anything important to contribute to the discussion.
Tom

[James Roscoe]

Personally I think Asimov nails it, but I don't really care much for the tone of the campaign either.

The whole lack of definition and inconsistency drives me nuts. I don't understand why one discuss vineyard practices and winery practices seperate of each other. I always remember a post on another board from a winemaker about the preception of organic growing being better for the earth and then discussing the impacts to carbon footprint and soil compaction of organic over conventional farming. I think there is often a gap between what people think they know and what they really know. So I often wonder what is the supposed point of Natural wines and how do we know that its being met? Is limiting sulfur and using only native yeast a goal by themselves or are they suppose to advance a goal of more transparency to place (which I have read somewhere)? If the goal is something more than an adherence to specific not clearly defined practices, I don't understand how its demonstrated.

So I often wonder what is the supposed point of Natural wines and how do we know that its being met?

I think Asimov's point is that there is no one point of natural wines. You'd probably get a different answer for each person who considers his/her wines to be 'natural'. And at the end of the day, these definitional debates are much less interesting than the wines themselves.

And at the end of the day, these definitional debates are much less interesting than the wines themselves.

So true.

[David M. Bueker]

I'm sick of the debate. I'm sick of the artificial hierarchy of wines based on varying degrees of dogma. I'm sick of the idea that enjoying a delicious German Riesling, made by the guy who owns the estate and farmed the vines that had a cultured yeast fermentation and a sterile filtration (to keep it from refermenting) is a lesser experience than enjoying a delicious Sicilian Nero d'Avola made by the woman who owns the estate and farmed the vines that fermented with no added yeast and wasn't filtered. They were both delicious, and both made by a small winery, owned by the winemaker, who put their heart and soul into making the wine.

In the end, I just want to drink delicious wine. I do generlaly want it to come from a domaine/estate rather than a corporation, but after that...it's the taste that matters.

[James Roscoe]

David I agree with you 100% but the entire debate is a mirror of the problems plaguing western society in general. I am tired of the whole thing and sort of wish it were 2013.

the entire debate is a mirror of the problems plaguing western society in general.

Which problems are those?

...you would think that at best, natural wine was a brand-new concept and, at worst, a new link to Al Qaeda. The word natural itself is under fire.

As quoted from a recent blog entry. Hmmmm...at least she didn't raise the Hitler card.

This is exactly the kind of polemics that I think Eric (and Thor) were objecting to in the discuussion of "natural" wine.
Tom

the entire debate is a mirror of the problems plaguing western society in general.

Which problems are those?

Yup, I am wondering the same thing? Not sure what all this has to do with western society?

[James Roscoe]

the entire debate is a mirror of the problems plaguing western society in general.

Which problems are those?

Do we have that much time?
Let's start with a lack of civility for one and go up from there.

JR, you are wasting time here. What do these "problems" have to do with natural wine?

[James Roscoe]

JR, you are wasting time here. What do these "problems" have to do with natural wine?

Civility is always a welcome part of every community Bob! Civility is sadly lacking in the debate over natural wine and I was merely pointing out this mirrors the lack of civility in western society in general. I could go on, but as you correctly point out, this is not the place.

I must move in wrong circles, I have plenty of natural wine-loving friends, and plenty of wine loving friends who don't care, yet seldom run into incivility. I do find Tom's Fiering obsession a little creepy.

All the articles I have been reading on natural/authentic wine plus organic wines too have been very good reading. Guess I read the right links in the right places!
Suggest we all try to get our hands on Jamie Goode`s new book.

http://www.wineanorak.com/authenticwine/reviews.htm

Let's start with a lack of civility for one...

Interesting idea. So incivility is 'plaguing' Western society but not other societies? I would be curious to see what kind of logic or evidence you have to support this.

[James Roscoe]

Let's start with a lack of civility for one...

Interesting idea. So incivility is 'plaguing' Western society but not other societies? I would be curious to see what kind of logic or evidence you have to support this.

Is that what I said? hmm interesting? I was certainly not speaking about other societies, but their certainly seems to be a lot of incivility in the western world. Your mileage may vary.

Is that what I said? hmm interesting? I was certainly not speaking about other societies, but their certainly seems to be a lot of incivility in the western world. Your mileage may vary.

Well if it was a statement about the whole world then you didn't need the modifier 'Western'.

And sure there is a lot of incivility in the Western world. There's also a lot of civility. Always has been and probably always will be that way.

So what's your point? What exactly is the 'plague'?

[David M. Bueker]

When did this turn into the Sociology Lovers Discussion Group. Another thing I can't stand is the spanish inquisition.

I can stand it, but I just don't expect the Spanish Inquisition...

When did this turn into the Sociology Lovers Discussion Group. Another thing I can't stand is the spanish inquisition.

Are you implying that my responses are like the Spanish Inquisition? I thought they were quite civil and in the spirit of Discussion among Wine Lovers, although surely thread drift is tolerated here??!?!?!?!

[David M. Bueker]

Our chief weapon is Shiraz...Shiraz and Feiring...our chief weapons are Shiraz, Feiring and an almost fanatical devotion to Chateauneuf du Pape...amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as Shiraz, Feiring and...oh **** let me come back in again.

Perhaps Rahsann told James to say there was trouble at the mill.

Now, old woman, you are accused of heresy on three counts! Heresy by new oak, heresy by high alcohol, heresy by grafted vines and heresy by sulfur - FOUR counts! Do you confess?

[James Roscoe]

I can stand it, but I just don't expect the Spanish Inquisition...

A good Monty Python reference is always considered civil!