$15 Eiswein!

[Jenise]

Buoyed by recent reports of amazing buys on sticky wines at the Grocery Outlet and stuck with an extra hour between appts the other day, I dropped in on our local and found a 2009 Schloss Koblenz Eiswein (Rheinhesssen).

Haven't opened it yet but a quick google just now suggests it's all over the U.S. at this price--nothing rare or seriously marked down here. Anyone know anything about this one?

Danger Will Robinson!
Seriously, I'd probably buy a bottle to try at that price, but with really tempered expectations. The lack of grape is the warning sign. I've never seen a $15 Riesling (or Scheurebe, or Rieslaner) Eiswein. Or even a Huxelrebe. I have unfortunately tasted Ortega eisweins. I'm guessing this is a blend of non-prestige varieties, but have no actual info. Will look forward to your report.

[David M. Bueker]

Never heard of the producer, and like Dale I would suggest very measured expectations. 99.9% sure it's not Riesling, and I would expect it to be less than elegant.

I'm not sure it couldn't be Riesling. I've had 20 euro Riesling eisweins from the Rheinhessen (Frankfurt duty free prices) that were very tasty, albeit not profound.

[David M. Bueker]

Normally if it's Riesling the producer will actually put 'Riesling' on the label. When it's not Riesling they are usually mute on the subject.

I didn't see in Jenise's post that it didn't actually say Riesling on the label. I thought the debate was whether a 15 dollar price tag for an eiswein was feasible.

Or even desirable.

[David M. Bueker]

The grape variety has a lot to do with the desirability. I have had some decent & cheap eisweins from non-Riesling grapes, but they are by far the exception, rather than the rule.

[Jenise]

The grape variety has a lot to do with the desirability. I have had some decent & cheap eisweins from non-Riesling grapes, but they are by far the exception, rather than the rule.

The label does not say riesling. But I'll admit that I just presumed it was since it's about all they grow there. What else would it be?

The grape variety has a lot to do with the desirability. I have had some decent & cheap eisweins from non-Riesling grapes, but they are by far the exception, rather than the rule.

The label does not say riesling. But I'll admit that I just presumed it was since it's about all they grow there. What else would it be?

Rheinhessen? Riesling is all they grow there? Not so. That may be the perception...probably is...but it's not so. Remember, this is "Blue Nun Liebfraumilch" country. Lots and lots and lots of Muller-Thurgau and other grapies there. Even more so in the Pfalz, I believe.

In Rheinhessen? Riesling is not even the dominant grape, in numbers. Muller-Thurgau, Silvaner, Kerner, Schuerebe. And Riesling. That's what my out-dated Sotheby Wine Encyclopedia says. Something tells me there hasn't been a seismic shift.

I had a Gewurstz eiswein from Baden a few months ago. Awful. Last year, I had a TBA made of Ortega (a cross between Muller-Thurgau and Siegerrebe which is itself a cross between Madeleine Angevine and Gewürztraminer). Awful too, but at least I can say this: isn't life wonderful when you can learn so much reading Wikipedia?

Another thing I can say is Germans really love cross-breeding! (jokes about Germans and the sweet science of eugenics are considered politically correct in Israel)

Ortega apparently..

Cellartracker has it as a white blend and lists a (non ice) varietal Ortega as well as Riesling from the same winery

For $15 its worth a try.

For a time a UK supermarket was listing two German ice-wines for around the same price, one was made from Sylvaner and the other Scheurebe and they were jolly enjoyable dessert wines ready for drinking.

Ortega apparently..

An Ortega eiswein? Really? I find it bewildering that someone would go to the trouble to getting up so early in the freezing winter morning just to pick a grape like that.

[David M. Bueker]

From the Rheinhessen I have had Eiswein made from the following grapes: Riesling, Huxelrebe, Ortega, Sylvaner, Kerner, Scheurebe, Albalonga, Bacchus and Spatburgunder.

The grape variety has a lot to do with the desirability. I have had some decent & cheap eisweins from non-Riesling grapes, but they are by far the exception, rather than the rule.

The label does not say riesling. But I'll admit that I just presumed it was since it's about all they grow there. What else would it be?

Rheinhessen? Riesling is all they grow there? Not so. That may be the perception...probably is...but it's not so. Remember, this is "Blue Nun Liebfraumilch" country. Lots and lots and lots of Muller-Thurgau and other grapies there. Even more so in the Pfalz, I believe.

Riesling takes up only 12% of the 26,000+ ha in Rheinhessen (rank #3 after M-T, Dornfelder) and 22% of the 23,000+ ha in the Pfalz (#1 followed by Dornfelder and M-T).

Schloss Koblenz is produced under the Josef Drathen empire.

Cheers,
Bill

[Jenise]

Rheinhessen? Riesling is all they grow there? Not so.

Oh I know. I've been there, I know better! I was just making fun of myself for not considering the other possibilities.

We've seen $15 Eisweins in Boston and lately, there has been a $15 BA. Riesling is written on the label.

Question for David- in Germany if the term “Eiswein” is used as a “generic” term on the label (no vineyard designation or grape variety) could the grapes be “artificially” frozen?

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

Question for David- in Germany if the term “Eiswein” is used as a “generic” term on the label (no vineyard designation or grape variety) could the grapes be “artificially” frozen?

Salute

NO! Eiswein is a legal term, not a generic one.

Germany, Austria, and Canada have the strict legal application of the term Eiswein that require the berries to be frozen on the vine.

http://www.thewinedoctor.com/regionalgu ... atap.shtml

http://austrianwineusa.com/2010/09/13/u ... wine-laws/

http://www.winesofcanada.com/icewine_standards.html

IIRC no one else has the stringent rules in place. Some of the common inexpensive Ice Wines, Selaks comes to mind, are "refrigerator" Ice Wines.

Quibble, quibble, Kelly: in Canada it's "Icewine", in Germany and Austria, it's "Eiswein". And that's because Canada isn't allowed to use "Eiswein."

USA has also brought in laws restricting the term so ony wines made from grapes frozen on the vine can be labelled 'Ice Wine', adding “if a wine is made from grapes frozen after harvest, any reference that suggests the wine is made from frozen grapes must be qualified with a phrase such as ‘made from grapes frozen post-harvest’.”

Inventive wineries now call their freezer wines names such as Iced or just Ice so that tasting room staff can still say 'this is our ice wine'.

In the picture below of two Finger Lakes 'ice' wines, the one on the right is a natural ice wine, the one on the left has a statement on the back, see below

Like Jenise and the others, I’m just trying to figure out where (and how) all these $15 Germany Eisweins are coming from all of a sudden. Even on the east coast you are seeing a lot of them. Like David said if the label didn’t say “Riesling Eiswein” I would just assume it was a cuveé or blend. But also the $15 US price will have me question production methods. (Leaving the grapes on the vines after all the leaves fall off and the first frost is pretty “risky business” especially in Germany). Take the two examples Peter gave us, the Casa Larga Fiori Cabernet Franc Ice wine cost around $58 USD and the Standing Stone Chardonnay Ice cost around $25 USD. (Haven’t tried the Casa Larga yet but the Standing Stone Chardonnay Ice was pretty decent).

Salute

Guess I'm feeling particularly curmudgeonly today. But what the hell...

Am I the only one who doesn't get terribly excited at the idea of lots of eiswein/ice wine/frozen wine/freezer wine. And also gets extremely un-excited when someone tells me I should try the latest Canadian Marechal Foch Sparkling Icewine, cause it's da bomb?

Seriously? I'm not supposed to think that's entirely gimmicky and oh-so-precious and special (with special uttered by Dana Carvey as the Church Lady)?

I do sort of like the idea, and even the execution, of a rare and precious and occasional sip of nectary-rich eiswein, sure. It's something one should have...a few times in life. And you know what---I don't want it occurring every year. I don't want to have it every year. I don't want a vertical of Eiswein in my cellar. And I don't want to conduct an extensive tasting of eisweins from around the world so I can say I fully explored the category of what eiswein can be.

And I can manfully resist the allure of a $15 eiswein. Not.even.interested. That just demeans the good stuff.

Now I can see where many people would have to try it. The people who can't walk down a cheap and tacky carnival midway and think for a moment of going into the freaks and geeks show to see the woman with the beard or the elephant man or the missing link. It's the allure of the odd. I get that.

But, folks, eiswein isn't something you should have as a major diet group for everyday. It's sticky and seriously sweet, and you won't wish to have more than a thimblefull anyway. And, I'm sorry, only the most convinced sweet toothers and those who revel in hyperglycemic shock as a thrill ride are even remotely interested in downing more thna that. Some things are best in infinitesimally small quantities.

And the idea of producing consistent quantities of sparkling.ubersweet.gimmicky varieties such as Cabernet Franc is, frankly (huh? huh?) repugnant.

[David M. Bueker]

Guess I'm feeling particularly curmudgeonly today. But what the hell...

Am I the only one who doesn't get terribly excited at the idea of lots of eiswein/ice wine/frozen wine/freezer wine. And also gets extremely un-excited when someone tells me I should try the latest Canadian Marechal Foch Sparkling Icewine, cause it's da bomb?

I don't find most of these oddball ice-type wines exciting either. I will happily try one of served it, but generally end up wishing I hadn't.