Wine Focus: Any thoughts for February? Lets discuss!

Pinot Gris. Some might think we should sample a white after a few months of tasting red wines. Wide range here, from Alsace and yup Pinot Grigio! I think there would be some interesting food match-ups here.

Sicily. Plenty of exciting developements on the island (if one reads around). The whites especially have had good press of late.

Natural Wine. Maybe tough to find but again lots of recent press attention.

S Rhone. Good vintages of late, we did discuss Villages recently but felt too restrictive.

Languedoc. An appellation that has been mentioned before here, but some talk of "tough to find in my area". Have times changed forumites?

Obscure grape varieties. Plenty of scope here, red and white. Would be a fun month I`d say!

Which wine with Asian foods? Hoke just posted a very good thread on Gewurztraminer. Me, I like Pinot Gris too at times.

Just my thoughts, what do you think?

I support doing Southern Rhône or Languedoc. Neither have been looked at since 2007, when Rhône Villages seemed too narrow a focus. Southern Rhône widens the focus to include CndP, the independent villages such as Gigondas, Lirac, Tavel, all Southeren CdR and, with a leap that most writers condone, Costières de Nîmes.

I cannot remember how Languedoc fared but, if availability is an issue, it could be widened to include Roussillon and even Provence, i.e. Southern France excluding the Rhône and the South West, a good candidate in itself for a future topic.

[David M. Bueker]

Southern Rhone could work. It sure is cold enough here for hearty meals & rich Rhone reds.

For some reason the wines of the Languedoc have never really caught on (around here anyway). I think that they require too much hand selling. People do not know the wines, and so tend to shy away unless coaxed.

...

How long has it been since we did northern Rhone or Syrah?

[David M. Bueker]

Here's the list going back a ways:

January 2011: Portugal
December 2010: Home for the Holidays (local area wines)
November 2010: Bubbles of the World
October 2010: The Other Spain (wines not from Rioja, RdD, Priorat)
September 2010: Riesling
August 2010: Beaujolais
July 2010: Italian Whites
June 2010: Rosé
May 2010: White Burgundy
April 2010: Austria
Mar 2010: Loire
Feb 2010: The Diversity of Italy (excluding Tuscany and Piedmonte)
Jan 2010: Rioja
Dec 2009: Festive Holiday Wines
Nov 2009: Bordeaux and Bordeaux blends
Oct 2009: Rhone style blends from around the world
Sep 2009: Organic/Biodynamic wines
Aug 2009: Grill, smoke, BBQ and wine
July 2009: Offbeat Whites
June 2009: Cool Summer Reds - Lightweight, low alcohol, even chillable
May 2009: South African Wines
Apr 2009: QPR - what is it & how to find it
Mar 2009: Bordeaux white blends
Feb 2009: Syrah and Syrah blends
Jan 2009: Rioja - red and white
Dec 2008: Piemonte/Piedmont
Nov 2008: Riesling - It's all about style
Oct 2008: All about Cabernet
Sep 2008: Chardonnay oak spectrum
Aug 2008: The styles of Zinfandel including Italian Primitivo
July 2008: Sauvignon Blanc, with a strong preference for New World examples
June 2008: The Quest for Good Pinot Gris
May 2008: Affordable Burgundy
Apr 2008: Loire Chenin Blanc
Mar 2008: Value Bordeaux
Feb 2008: Malbec around the World
Jan 2008: Great Value Wines
Dec 2007: Gewurztraminer
Nov 2007: Cote du Rhone Villages (CDRV)
Oct 2007: Oz Shiraz
Sep 2007: Jadot
Aug 2007: Albarino
Jul 2007: Pink wines
Jun 2007: Sherry
May 2007: Gruner Veltliner
Apr 2007: Chianti Classico
Mar 2007: Chenin Blanc
Feb 2007: Languedoc
Jan 2007: Northern Rhone Syrah
Dec 2006: Champagne
Nov 2006: Port
Oct 2006: Bandol / Mourvedre
Sep 2006: Chile vs Cal Cab
Aug 2006: Gamay
Jul 2006: Viognier

After browsing through the list, I see "May 2008: Affordable Burgundy" but Pinot Noir has not been done.

[David M. Bueker]

Interesting. I didn't realize that Pinot had been so conspicuously absent.

And by the way - thanks to Sue Courtney who put together almost all of that list. I copied it here to make review easier for everyone.

While were still in the midst of cold weather, I'd vote for Stickies aka Desert Wine aka Sweet Wine, etc. so forth and so on.

[Robin Garr]

For some reason the wines of the Languedoc have never really caught on (around here anyway). I think that they require too much hand selling. People do not know the wines, and so tend to shy away unless coaxed.

That might be a very good reason to do them, assuming that accessibility isn't an issue. I've felt pretty much locked out this month thanks to limited local supply of Portuguese wines. (And also really bummed out that this is happening here, where in the past we've been able to get just about anything. I'm really worried about the consolidation of distributors and its impact on the retail marketplace. )

Anyway ... in my opinion, Languedoc in general or even the Coteaux du Languedoc, which is excellent and fairly widely available, in particular, might be a good educational opportunity.

I'd like to see Pinot Noir resurface in April-June time frame. They make for good picnic fare and summer sippers if slightly chilled.

I don't know that I would find many Languedoc wines available here (or Portuguese wines other than Port) but could go with southern Rhone or Southern France.

[Robin Garr]

southern Rhone or Southern France.

How would folks feel about "Languedoc and Provence," which would incorporate the Southern Rhône and allow us to consider wines from across the Mediterranean side of France all the way from West to East, making possible some very interesting compare-and-contrast pairings? I don't believe I've ever tried comparing a good Côtes-du-Rhône with a good Côteaux du Languedoc of similar price side by side, for instance.

Thoughts?

I think Languedoc/Provence is an excellent idea! Should be some nice wines out there to choose from. This way, I can draw from my cellar and clear some room for new vintages coming up.

[Robin Garr]

I think Languedoc/Provence is an excellent idea! Should be some nice wines out there to choose from. This way, I can draw from my cellar and clear some room for new vintages coming up.

Well, I like it a lot - particularly with the understanding that Provence includes the Southern Rhone - but I don't want to be the dictator. Any other comments before we declare it the winner?

I'm also happy with "A World of Pinot Noir" for spring, as suggested above ...

I think Languedoc/Provence is an excellent idea! Should be some nice wines out there to choose from. This way, I can draw from my cellar and clear some room for new vintages coming up.

Well, I like it a lot - particularly with the understanding that Provence includes the Southern Rhone - but I don't want to be the dictator. Any other comments before we declare it the winner?

I'm also happy with "A World of Pinot Noir" for spring, as suggested above ...

I'm happy to go along with this, although inclusion of S.Rhône may lead to excessive concentration on their wines, which are probably the easiest to find from the South.

Don't forget to stipulate that Roussillon should be included. Purists regard their wines and culture as quite distinct from those of Languedoc. It is true that the French have surpassed their usual inanity in their new appellation decisions in creating an AOC Langueduc aimed at entry level wines covering both areas viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32829&p=277271&hilit=+languedoc#p277271 .

I was thinking of S Rhone just now and not sure about its inclusion. Languedoc and Roussillon cum Provence is a very wide area, including this area to the north will dilute the subject I think?
As an aside, I am a big fan of wines from Vin de Pays d’Oc, in the Languedoc region. Some good bargains here, all well researched by pundits such as Rosemary George and Jamie Goode, plus others.

[David M. Bueker]

I was thinking of S Rhone just now and not sure about its inclusion. Languedoc and Roussillon cum Provence is a very wide area, including this area to the north will dilute the subject I think?
As an aside, I am a big fan of wines from Vin de Pays d’Oc, in the Languedoc region. Some good bargains here, all well researched by pundits such as Rosemary George and Jamie Goode, plus others.

I bolded the selected statement because it hits on a point - the wines are well researched by people who have routine access to them.

I'm fine with excluding the Southern Rhone (expect me to report on Bandol - I presume we are not including Cahors) if that's what the group wants though.

I was thinking of S Rhone just now and not sure about its inclusion. Languedoc and Roussillon cum Provence is a very wide area, including this area to the north will dilute the subject I think?
As an aside, I am a big fan of wines from Vin de Pays d’Oc, in the Languedoc region. Some good bargains here, all well researched by pundits such as Rosemary George and Jamie Goode, plus others.

I bolded the selected statement because it hits on a point - the wines are well researched by people who have routine access to them.

I'm fine with excluding the Southern Rhone (expect me to report on Bandol - I presume we are not including Cahors) if that's what the group wants though.

If we go for Languedoc, Roussillon and Provence, that definition vinously excludes anything North West of Cabardès, close to Carcassonne, as well as S.Rhône. In generally accepted parlance, Gaillac, Cahors, Fronton, etc. are part of "South West".

I'm not sure what point you are making by saying I bolded the selected statement because it hits on a point - the wines are well researched by people who have routine access to them. Are you saying that it is not worthwhile others trying to explore them as well? We are mostly amateurs compared with focussed bloggers who are often ITB but IMO that doesn't mean that drinking and exchanging views is pointless.

[David M. Bueker]

My point has to do with market access. 99% of the wines from Languedoc/Roussilon that show up in wine shops in the USA are Red Bicyclette crap. Most of the rest of Rosé which is clearly suited to a time when we don't have 4 feet of snow on the ground.

Bandol is a notable exception, and so that's where I will turn.

[Robin Garr]

My point has to do with market access. 99% of the wines from Languedoc/Roussilon that show up in wine shops in the USA are Red Bicyclette crap. Most of the rest of Rosé which is clearly suited to a time when we don't have 4 feet of snow on the ground.

You don't get any serious Coteaux du Languedoc, Pic Saint Loup, Minervois and their neighbors? I'm surprised.

Also, why are people taking the Southern Rhone out of Provence? Ask anybody in Avignon whether they're in Provence or not and they'll go "oui."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I had the impression that Languedoc and Provence, defined as the administrative regions, cover the entire South inclusive of both Roussillon and the Rhone below Montelimar - Provence east from the Rhone to Italy, and Languedoc west from the Rhone to Spain. Am I offbase about this, or are we talking at cross purposes, administrative regions vs the more complicated map of AOCs?

So much is written about Malbec from Argentina... so then, why not a focus on wines that are not Malbec from Argentina...? Perhaps the topic could be Non Malbec (red) Varietals from Argentina? This way, we could discuss all non Malbec straight varietals and also blends... which is a very prolific category in Argentina.

Pinot +1, or how about Italian reds from anywhere but Tuscany & Piedmont?

My point has to do with market access. 99% of the wines from Languedoc/Roussilon that show up in wine shops in the USA are Red Bicyclette crap. Most of the rest of Rosé which is clearly suited to a time when we don't have 4 feet of snow on the ground.

You don't get any serious Coteaux du Languedoc, Pic Saint Loup, Minervois and their neighbors? I'm surprised.

Also, why are people taking the Southern Rhone out of Provence? Ask anybody in Avignon whether they're in Provence or not and they'll go "oui."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I had the impression that Languedoc and Provence, defined as the administrative regions, cover the entire South inclusive of both Roussillon and the Rhone below Montelimar - Provence east from the Rhone to Italy, and Languedoc west from the Rhone to Spain. Am I offbase about this, or are we talking at cross purposes, administrative regions vs the more complicated map of AOCs?

Robin, you are correct that if you take the French administrative provinces of Languedoc-Roussillon and Provence-Côtes d'Azur, you take in all the Languedoc, Roussillon and Provence appellations as well as most but not all of the areas covered by southern Côtes du Rhône appellation. However, I don't think that administrative boundaries are very helpful in distinguishing wine character boundaries; for example most, if not all, the southern Côtes du Rhône right bank areas are in Languedoc-Roussilon as are those of Costières de Nîmes, commonly considered Rhône wine. All my French reference books consider Provençal wines separately from those of the Rhône and I was rightly criticised by Victor de la Serna for vinously and culturally assimilating Roussillon (very Catalan) with Languedoc just because of administrative boundaries.

My reticence about the inclusion of Rhône is that it would be likely to take up the majority of posts just because of easy availability when it would rewarding to encourage people to increase familiarity with the diversity of quality offerings from Languedoc-Roussillon and the rest of Provence-Côtes d'Azur. Frankly I am shocked if, in a sophisticated part of the USA like Connecticut, the offer for these wines is as poor as David says.

[Robin Garr]

That's an interesting, and valid analysis, Tim. I'm thinking about it frankly from the perspective of French tourism. where people tend (I think) to look at the administrative regions without thinking twice about the niceties of the AOC system.

What if we go with something like "France, the Southern Tier," with a specific list of AOCs that we encourage, while not absolutely ruling out Cotes du Rhone for those who want to play but just can't find anything else?

Robin, you are correct that if you take the French administrative provinces of Languedoc-Roussillon and Provence-Côtes d'Azur, you take in all the Languedoc, Roussillon and Provence appellations as well as most but not all of the areas covered by southern Côtes du Rhône appellation. However, I don't think that administrative boundaries are very helpful in distinguishing wine character boundaries; for example most, if not all, the southern Côtes du Rhône right bank areas are in Languedoc-Roussilon as are those of Costières de Nîmes, commonly considered Rhône wine. All my French reference books consider Provençal wines separately from those of the Rhône and I was rightly criticised by Victor de la Serna for vinously and culturally assimilating Roussillon (very Catalan) with Languedoc just because of administrative boundaries.

My reticence about the inclusion of Rhône is that it would be likely to take up the majority of posts just because of easy availability when it would rewarding to encourage people to increase familiarity with the diversity of quality offerings from Languedoc-Roussillon and the rest of Provence-Côtes d'Azur. Frankly I am shocked if, in a sophisticated part of the USA like Connecticut, the offer for these wines is as poor as David says.