Another wine prejudice?

This subject occurred to me this evening as I was choosing a couple of wines to take to a very informal dinner where I and my husband would be the only ones with a bit of wine knowledge.
I have a new section in my cellar specifically designed for screwcapped bottles to be stored upright and those tend to be mostly wines from Down Under--NZ and Australian Rieslings and Pinot Noirs for the most part, although I also have some Rhone wines under screwcap. For some reason I'm gravitating to those wines, all of which are young by the standards of my cellar, when I'm picking "informal" wines, even though some of them were quite expensive. For some reason I'm thinking those wines aren't really being "cellared" for the longer term, and I attribute this attitude to a certain kind of prejudice which may be misplaced. Am I the only one automatically putting my screwcapped bottled in the "drink soon" category and for no good reason?

As to your question, screwcapped bottles are so rare over here that the issue does not arise for me.

And a question from me. Is there any advantage to storing screwcapped bottles vertically?

Thats interesting Tim, what about the glass stoppers? Seen any of those?

Thats interesting Tim, what about the glass stoppers? Seen any of those?

Yes, I have seen and bought glass stoppers on German wines. Some German producers also use screwcaps but I think that glass stoppers which look smart are more likely to find their way here.

Hi, Ines, cork v. screwcap is one of the debates that occasionally flares over here (if you use the search engine, you'll find tons of stuff on the subject, sometimes testy). Many people here have been burned enough by bad corks to be partial to screwcaps, and these people, like me, have zero prejudice against them, and don't automatically assume wines thus stoppered are intended for short term drinking (though they may be). As for your other question, corked bottles are stored horizontally so that the cork doesn't dry out. Screwcapped bottles can be stored vertically.

I don't have a lot of screwtop wines, mostly German/Austrian and Loire, but I have the same feeling like you that they just might not last as long as under cork, however I will find out since I am still cellaring them the old-fashioned way.

[Jenise]

As for your other question, corked bottles are stored horizontally so that the cork doesn't dry out. Screwcapped bottles can be stored vertically.

Um...read again, Oswaldo dear, she didn't actually ask that question--Ines knows that and is storing her wines according to that. What she's saying is that she's favoring that section of her cellar (where the screwcapped wines stand) for short-term drinking and wondering if she isn't being unfair to those bottles.

@ Ines: interesitng thing to treat those bottles differently. I don't, but it couldn't have even started to occur to me becuase I don't have the space to stand stuff up. Screwcapped bottles have to get filed like everything else according to region or grape type (my cellar is a curious mixture of both).

[quote=

@ Ines: interesitng thing to treat those bottles differently. I don't, but it couldn't have even started to occur to me becuase I don't have the space to stand stuff up. Screwcapped bottles have to get filed like everything else according to region or grape type (my cellar is a curious mixture of both).

Maybe my question was a bit confusing, but I really do wonder if looking at all those bottles standing, up which is really the way those screwcapped bottles are best stored in terms of space used, isn't making me think "use those first." When I had them lying horizontally like all the other bottles, I didn't seem to think that way because they didn't look all that different from the bottles with regular capsules. I know it's a trivial concern, but isn't that what we talk about here--wine trivia?

[Jenise]

I didn't seem to think that way because they didn't look all that different from the bottles with regular capsules. I know it's a trivial concern, but isn't that what we talk about here--wine trivia?

You're darned right it is.

Did Kirk actually build you a section for standing bottles, or did it just gravitate that way?

Oh, I wouldn't call it prejudice so much as just the process of adjusting to a changed reality, and defaulting to the "old" way without thinking about it.

That'll change eventually.

I don't have any problem with thinking that screwcaps lead to older, not just younger wines. And I have several of each now, as the screwcap is what I'm actively seeking when available.

My problem is that the screwcaps preserve wine in such deliciously natural state, it's difficult to resist drinking all of it, young or old!

In fifty or so years Hoke and I shall receive special dispensation to return to Earth from Heaven or Hell (I can guess where I'll wind up but won't speculate on Hoke's behalf) and at that time we shall do many vertical tastings to determine how well or badly wines bottled under both cork and screwcap will fare. We shall publish but considering that we will have long perished, will not overly concern ourselves about the quality of the journal that accepts our research.

The only thing I can promise is that during my first hour after return I shall eat a a dozen raw oysters and lobster thermidor.

Best
Rogov

Did Kirk actually build you a section for standing bottles, or did it just gravitate that way?

A picture being worth all those words, here is what I've got now for upright bottle storage:

Am I the only one automatically putting my screwcapped bottled in the "drink soon" category and for no good reason?

Perceptions being what they are, perhaps some of us do that just because it "seems" right.

But there is emerging evidence to suggest that certain types of wine do not age as well under screwcap as under cork. I have read some about it and have yet to find anything definitive but, as Oswaldo mentions, that is a matter of some debate on many wine boards and in many posts.
Bottom line - there may be a good reason but I have yet to see positive proof of it.

As a personal aside - I love screwcaps because of the ability to put the cap back on and store the wine in a sealed state overnight or, sometimes, longer.

Best, Jim

Bottom line - there may be a good reason but I have yet to see positive proof of it.

But...but...but, Jim?

Applying the cork fanatics' own logic to the question of questionable effects of screwcaps: we'll have to wait at least 50 years and conduct at least three hundred separate clinical trials and argue about everything incessantly for at least 100 years more before we A) recognize there might possibly be a problem, B) attempt to determine in any way what the problem is, and C) once we've identified the problem staunchly ignore all evidence and experience and pretend it really doesn't exist, along with D) maintain that if we make any changes whatsoever to the traditional screwcap closure that will crush the entire romantic aspect of wine, which is worth any amount of spoilage or failure rate.

Oh, and if forgot: we can't take away that lovely 'scrnch' of the opening of the screwcap; that's part of that romance (see D) above).

Bottom line - there may be a good reason but I have yet to see positive proof of it.

But...but...but, Jim?

Applying the cork fanatics' own logic to the question of questionable effects of screwcaps: we'll have to wait at least 50 years and conduct at least three hundred separate clinical trials and argue about everything incessantly for at least 100 years more before we A) recognize there might possibly be a problem, B) attempt to determine in any way what the problem is, and C) once we've identified the problem staunchly ignore all evidence and experience and pretend it really doesn't exist, along with D) maintain that if we make any changes whatsoever to the traditional screwcap closure that will crush the entire romantic aspect of wine, which is worth any amount of spoilage or failure rate.

Oh, and if forgot: we can't take away that lovely 'scrnch' of the opening of the screwcap; that's part of that romance (see D) above).

I see you've given this a lot of thought.
Best, Jim

This subject occurred to me this evening as I was choosing a couple of wines to take to a very informal dinner where I and my husband would be the only ones with a bit of wine knowledge.
I have a new section in my cellar specifically designed for screwcapped bottles to be stored upright and those tend to be mostly wines from Down Under--NZ and Australian Rieslings and Pinot Noirs for the most part, although I also have some Rhone wines under screwcap. For some reason I'm gravitating to those wines, all of which are young by the standards of my cellar, when I'm picking "informal" wines, even though some of them were quite expensive. For some reason I'm thinking those wines aren't really being "cellared" for the longer term, and I attribute this attitude to a certain kind of prejudice which may be misplaced. Am I the only one automatically putting my screwcapped bottled in the "drink soon" category and for no good reason?

Ines,
This may not be true with your collection, but the vast majority of the screwcapped wines I buy are those intended by the winemaker for near-term consumption. Doubtless this will change as winemakers become more confident about the long-term aging of wines sealed under screwcap (and customers' acceptance thereof) but for the moment there are few screwcapped wines in my cellar that I'd ever want to cellar beyond 5 years.

Mark Lipton

Ines,
I think your prejudice is misplaced. The screwcap is primarily a marketing statement frrom the winery that the wine in the bottle is ready to drink as soon as you buy it. There may be some screwcap wines that will benefit from aging, like Aussie riesling, but they are not being sold to age.

And a question from me. Is there any advantage to storing screwcapped bottles vertically?

I'd say yes. If you store the bottles vertically, you don't have the wine touching the lining of the screwcap. And it means that if the screwcap does leak, you'll get evaporation (and hence more ullage), but the wine won't seep out.

The situation's the exact opposite of wine stoppered with a cork. When a cork is used, you store the wines horizontally so that the inside of the cork stays moist and doesn't dry out, shrink away from the bottleneck, and lose its seal.

-Paul W.

The screwcap is primarily a marketing statement from the winery that the wine in the bottle is ready to drink as soon as you buy it.

Or perhaps it means that the winery has finally had it with faulty corks and corked wine.

-Paul W.

[Jenise]

Did Kirk actually build you a section for standing bottles, or did it just gravitate that way?

A picture being worth all those words, here is what I've got now for upright bottle storage:

That answers the question--he did build you a "drinking queue". I need one in my cellar, may have to borrow Kirk's design, complete with guard rail.

A. Most Australian Rieslings age nicely. Would have to know more about the Pinot.

B. Yes you can store screwtops vertically. I don't because I don't have vertical storage like you do.

Cheers, Carl

I am not an expert on screwcaped wines; however, I am pretty sure I have read that properties that expect their wines to be drunk in the near term are more likely to employ screwcaps. So it is not prejudice, I don't think; I think it is a rational way to look at it.

There are some Bordeaux properties (and undoubtedly other properties) capping wines meant for aging with screwcaps; so, if you cellared those bottles and thought of them as near-term, you would be incorrectly prejudiced in that case.

Also, I would think it would make a difference whether you stored screwcapped bottles horizontally or vertically with regard to their aging. More oxygen will get in if they are upright, I would think, just because there would be more air from inside the bottle at the seal, so more molecules of air would go out, causing a vacuum for more air to come in. But I am sure there are experts on this forum who can speak to this. I am just guessing.

I'm not a wine expert (but I play one on television) so take what say with a grain of NaCl. I notice that most of the producers that I see do put their "lesser" labels under screwcap and their higher end wines under cork. This is of course for those that utilize both types of closures. Again this is only anecdotal.

Because I can, I store my screwcaps vertically. While I've not read anything about the interaction of the wine and lining of the screwcap top, I figure why take a chance?

All of this is probably moot since for the most part I'm not a long term cellar type of drinker.

I'm not a wine expert (but I play one on television) so take what say with a grain of NaCl. I notice that most of the producers that I see do put their "lesser" labels under screwcap and their higher end wines under cork. This is of course for those that utilize both types of closures. Again this is only anecdotal.

Because I can, I store my screwcaps vertically. While I've not read anything about the interaction of the wine and lining of the screwcap top, I figure why take a chance?

All of this is probably moot since for the most part I'm not a long term cellar type of drinker.

I figured I would await expert opinion here on this forum before consulting a physics professor. That's interesting that you play a wine expert on television. What show?