Wine aroma and taste descriptors.

Hello, I am a new member of the forums, and this is my first post. I look forward to taking part in the community here!

For my first post I would like to ask you all for some assistance. I am compiling a categorized list of all the descriptive words we use for both the aroma and flavor of wine. Please help me make this list as comprehensive as possible by sharing some of your favorite, less common descriptive words and comparative items that help pin down those peculiar essences we love so much about wine.

I have the obvious basics already down - Blackberry, plum, leather, hazelnut, green pepper, chocolate etc etc... I also have unique stuff like dust, pencil shavings, cigar box, slate, grass, creme brulee, and others of the like.

Dig deep into your wine vocabulary and let's hear some of the unique ways you describe wine!

It may help you to see the category outline I have. If you see any categories you feel I have missed, feel free to suggest that as well!

FRUIT
...Citrus
...Berry
...Tree Fruit
...Tropical Fruit
...Vine Fruit
...Dried and processed Fruit
FOOD
...Sweet food
...Savory food
...Nuts
...Vegetal/Green food
...Herbs and Spices
...Dark/Black/Burnt food
...Candy
CHEMICAL
...Household chemicals
...Petroleum
...Other
EARTH
...Earthy
...Woody
...Tobacco
...Mineral
FLORAL
PUNGENT/FUNKY


Thanks for any input!

Something that may help you immensely in this would be Professor Ann Noble's famous Sensory/Aroma Wheel.

You can google it, I'm sure.

Also lots of good stuff contained in Robin's Wine Lover's Page master site.

Also worth checking out the new tasting note assistant on grapestories.com

Also worth checking out the new tasting note assistant on grapestories.com

Has anyone seen an inter net posted copy of the Champange aroma wheel. My tasting group sure could use one.


Gary

[Jenise]

Jack, welcome. But help me understand: how do you define the difference between a basic and a unique aroma? I mean, dust is pretty basic if you're talking about a Rutherford Bench cabernet, say, and pencil shavings (also called graphite) are basic to a Bordeaux blend from Paulliac. And where on your list would be trees themselves? Eucalyptus, pine, cedar, and the more general term 'forest' come up often.

I would classify pine and cedar, under EARTH>>"Woody" And forest, or forest floor under EARTH>>"Earthy" I had Eucalyptus under Herbs and Spices because of its strong herbal nature.

I feel the categories that I could probably use the most help expanding are the FOOD categories - especially "Sweet Foods" and "Savory Foods" The obvious sweet food entries are Butterscotch, Caramel, Honey Biscuit, etc. I also have cake batter, sugar cane, coconut and more... Any others that come to mind?

This all seems a bit overly analytical to me. Relax and sense what comes to your mind. You've had life experiences, you know what food-places-animals-things smell like. Use your imagination and don't get caught up too much by stricture.

[David M. Bueker]

Jack,

Welcome!

It's interesting that you ask this question now, as some of are trying (with limited success) to move away from the "buffet style" of tasting notes, and go to a more structural type assessment. The reason for that is my tangerine is your Meyer lemon (regardless of how different those two items may smell to you or I, and the power of suggestion is so strong that if I say "black cherry" you will likely find it!

[Jenise]

I would classify pine and cedar, under EARTH>>"Woody" And forest, or forest floor under EARTH>>"Earthy" I had Eucalyptus under Herbs and Spices because of its strong herbal nature.

Okay, I was thrown off by the mix of adjectives (woody) vs. verbs (berry) in your descriptions. What are you going to do with your lists--is this something you're looking to draw from as you taste wine? I ask because each of us comes from a different place. I'm a cook, and I grew up around eucalyptus trees. Therefore it's a tree to me, and not an herb--I don't cook with it. So on that score at least you wouldn't relate to my experience and I might not relate to yours. One of the more unusual terms I once read described a pinot as having hints of "old growth redwood forest". She lived in the woods north of Sonoma and I'm sure this description was meaningful to her, but it didn't work for me.

I feel the categories that I could probably use the most help expanding are the FOOD categories - especially "Sweet Foods" and "Savory Foods" The obvious sweet food entries are Butterscotch, Caramel, Honey Biscuit, etc. I also have cake batter, sugar cane, coconut and more... Any others that come to mind?

Sure: toffee, vanilla, vanilla pudding, toasted coconut, bubble gum, plum pudding, kettle corn, and brioche come readily to mind. On the savory side, not meat but roasted meat, grilled meat, beef blood, corn on the cob, egg whites, toast, and tomato leaf (you would probably file that under herbs) come to mind.

And where would you put things like brown paper bag, vinyl and new plastic shower curtain? Chemical?

Sure: toffee, vanilla, vanilla pudding, toasted coconut, bubble gum, plum pudding, kettle corn, and brioche come readily to mind. On the savory side, not meat but roasted meat, grilled meat, beef blood, corn on the cob, egg whites, toast, and tomato leaf (you would probably file that under herbs) come to mind.

And where would you put things like brown paper bag, vinyl and new plastic shower curtain? Chemical?

YES Jenise! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you. Vinyl and shower curtain will go under CHEMICAL>>Other. Brown bag to me is an "Earthy" aroma and will be filed there.

This all seems a bit overly analytical to me. Relax and sense what comes to your mind. You've had life experiences, you know what food-places-animals-things smell like. Use your imagination and don't get caught up too much by stricture.

Being analytical is exactly what I love so much about wine! The way it jogs your memory to make correlations from your experience - THAT is what has me so passionate about this drink. Compiling this list has already been extremely enlightening for me, and I find myself being at less of a loss for words when I taste wine. That's the point of this project for me.

Jack,

Welcome!

It's interesting that you ask this question now, as some of are trying (with limited success) to move away from the "buffet style" of tasting notes, and go to a more structural type assessment. The reason for that is my tangerine is your Meyer lemon (regardless of how different those two items may smell to you or I, and the power of suggestion is so strong that if I say "black cherry" you will likely find it!

Thanks David,

I understand your point about the "buffet style" of tasting notes, and I agree that the power of suggestion is substantial. But for me, that does not take away from the magic of correlating wine with every day experience. In fact, it cements it in my mind. Wine tasting is such a subjective and sometimes ethereal experience, I find listening to the thoughts and suggestions of others helps enrich it. Having this list that I'm compiling at my fingertips is going to help me pick apart the subtleties of wine. Furthermore, I get an absolute KICK out of reading my own tasting notes on a bottle whilst tasting it for a second time at a later date!

[Jenise]

Sure: toffee, vanilla, vanilla pudding, toasted coconut, bubble gum, plum pudding, kettle corn, and brioche come readily to mind. On the savory side, not meat but roasted meat, grilled meat, beef blood, corn on the cob, egg whites, toast, and tomato leaf (you would probably file that under herbs) come to mind.

And where would you put things like brown paper bag, vinyl and new plastic shower curtain? Chemical?

YES Jenise! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you. Vinyl and shower curtain will go under CHEMICAL>>Other. Brown bag to me is an "Earthy" aroma and will be filed there.

[Jenise]

Brown bag to me is an "Earthy" aroma and will be filed there.

It is, but I think it's actual causation is in the mineral family.

I think I get what you're doing now: by creating this list, you're increasing mentally the number of references you have that may be outside your usual experience and therefore not reflexive. For more of that, pay attention to tasting notes on this board: there are a lot of creative people who come up with some spot-on, almost poetic descriptors.

I just thought of one for your sweets list: blueberry milkshake. Comes up a lot describing well-oaked merlots here in Washington state where I live. You're in Oregon, right? You might be familiar, since you'll have good access to Washington wines. Earlier this week I described an earthy wine as having clay tile and raw yam flavors. And I'm about to write a TN for one that has smells of old rare books and stale cigar smoke.

I think I get what you're doing now: by creating this list, you're increasing mentally the number of references you have that may be outside your usual experience and therefore not reflexive.

EXACTLY!! :

For more of that, pay attention to tasting notes on this board: there are a lot of creative people who come up with some spot-on, almost poetic descriptors.

Will do.

You're in Oregon, right? You might be familiar, since you'll have good access to Washington wines.

Oh yes I love me some Washington Reds. And yes, I've had Blueberry milkshake Merlot. Love that stuff!

The inspiration for this project, incidentally, was a wine tasting I did a couple weeks back that Charles Smith was hosting with over 15 Walla Walla producers pouring over 70 different wines. I was trying to take notes on everything I tasted, but found myself running out of descriptors, or just drawing a blank when I had a flavor on the tip of my tongue.

Like some others here, I am struggling a bit with this question. Ultimately your list will consist of pretty much everything in the world that smells, and I don't think that would be useful.

Common wine descriptors are easy to find on the net and in wine books - for example someone already mentioned Professor Ann Noble's famous Sensory/Aroma Wheel. They provide a sort of basic tasting note short hand for (attempted) communication of aromas between those who understand the rules of the game. By "short hand" and "the rules of the game", I mean, for example, that no wine REALLY smells of diesel, but when you have smelled a certain type of Riesling that others say smells of diesel, you will know what they mean.

Beyond that, the useful aromas are the ones that are meaningful to you - the ones you recognise in real life. I may describe a wine as smelling like my grandmothers wardrobe, or like an exotic fruit you have never heard of, but that would not help you. Actually I believe there are big problems with some of the more standard descriptors too. I think it was on this forum where we were discussing "farmyard", and it transpired that to some people here that meant chicken poo - to me farmyards are usually a mix of mud, pig and cow poo.

Without answering your question directly, I hope that helped a little.

This is a very interesting topic. I have managed to print myself a free copy of Ann Noble's wheel, although I see from her own site that she sells it (is my printing a felony?). This is a pretty good analysis of the main flavours and aromas although I would favour separate slices for both mineral and animal aromas which are an important part of the profile of many European wines. I agree with others that the more one gets into detailed and precise seeming flavour analogies the more one is likely to part company from other tasters.

With all this emphasis on flavours, let me say than I think that description of the following aspects of the palate are just as important, if not more so.

- Body - light, medium, full?
- Shape on the palate - up-front, classical (w crescendo towards finish followed by diminishing after-taste), linear, mouth-filling, long, short?
- Stucture - tannins dry, green, ripe, soggy, angular, covered?
- Acidity - astringent, crisp, lively, smooth?
- Sugar - imperceptible, off-dry, medium sweet, sweet, very sweet?
- Salinity?
- Texture - hard, mat, soft, silky, velvety?

Another aspect worth exploring sometime would individual flavour preferences. For example, whenever I read, say, "toasty oak" or "blueberry milkshake", the wine in question is immediately struck off my list. I love most red fruit, Riesling hydrocarbons, leather, pencil shavings and most minerals in moderation.

Here's one for your categorised list

"[T]he sharp acridity of rain on the hot tractor exhaust"
(Philip White, in The Advertiser www.theadvertiser.com.au Wednesday, May 17, 2006)

[David M. Bueker]

And of course there's this gem of a descriptor from Terry Theise:

"geese farts on a muggy day."

Hi Tim,
Could you please expand on what you mean by “soggy” tannins?

Salute

Here's one for your categorised list

"[T]he sharp acridity of rain on the hot tractor exhaust"
(Philip White, in The Advertiser http://www.theadvertiser.com.au Wednesday, May 17, 2006)

That one is very evocative.

And of course there's this gem of a descriptor from Terry Theise:

"geese farts on a muggy day."

I've never smelled goose fart so this one is not very helpful to me . Dog fart is a different matter.

Hi Tim,
Could you please expand on what you mean by “soggy” tannins?

Salute

Usually up-front full wines with no perceptible tannic structure. The overall effect is soggy to me.

Great input, everyone... thanks again. I agree that the discussion of a wine would be woefully incomplete without discussing the structure, mouthfeel, and shape. That's another project altogether!

Steve, my intention is not to compile a list of everything that smells, but to get a practical, useful list of the things that truly come up often in wines. For instance - although "hot tractor exhaust" is quite evocative and downright amusing, I wouldn't add it to the list because it's just too specific and rare. Diesel however is certainly on the list - and anyone who has had a 10 year old Mosel Riesling can attest to that one!

Of course I have seen Ann Noble's Aroma Wheel but I find it to have shortcomings in a practical sense. I mean - here's a wine aroma description wheel that includes Mousey, Horsey, and Sauerkraut but doesn't have Lychee, Blueberry, or even a CATEGORY for Mineral!? So yea, I decided to try to improve on a good thing.

What I have found most interesting about this discussion so far is the conclusion that many of the most specific wine descriptors come from personal memory and experience which other people may or may not understand or perhaps may even misinterpret. So, I think it's necessary to consider who is your audience? If you're taking notes for yourself and nobody else, then it's OK to say that this wine smells like a John Deere Riding Lawn Mower. But if you're writing for an audience then you might opt for "Fresh cut green grass and petrol notes"

Again, thanks. I have some new entries to add. If any other bright ideas come up in the future feel free to drop em into this discussion. It's a work in progress!

[Jenise]

Okay folks, dare I introduce Jack to Stuart's Most Famous Tasting Note of All Time? What say y'all?

[tick tock]

Okay, I see a lot of hands in the air so it's a go.

Jack, follow the link below, then follow the link in Rahsaan's post, which is either the second or third one down, and read the description of a wine called Overnoy:

http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22705&hilit=hall+fame

That famous post is what I think of when I'm having a bad day....suddenly my day becomes bright and full of good things.

[Jenise]

That famous post is what I think of when I'm having a bad day....suddenly my day becomes bright and full of good things.

We now know twice as much about you than we knew before you said that.