Help Me Out A Little Here?

A newspaper wine commentator---not so much a critic as a promoter of selected wines---had an article recently wherein she was mentioning some wines she had been impressed with...enough to write about them in the newspaper.

Usual "Food Section" stuff, and that's okay.

But I stopped short a couple of times during the article, knocked off balance by some things the writer said, and had to stutter step to figure out what she meant.

Since you guys are my wine peeps, I thought I'd run these past you as a reality check.

First, she writes about a Brazilian Chardonnay ("an absolute steal from an exotic source") from a portfolio importer that specializes in "flat out deals".

She goes on to say:

"The five wines I tasted were all priced at a schockingly low $7.50. None was higher than 12.5 percent alcohol by volume, which suggests that crop loads are higher in Brazil than what we are used to here. The result of harvesting more grapes per vine is a lighter-weight wine, perfectly suited for weeknights."

Really? Lower alcohols means higher crop loads? (And by "what we are used to here", I'm assuming she doesn't mean California's Central Valley.)

And then there's the "result of harvesting more grapes per vine is a lighter-weight wine, perfectly suited for weeknights." Okaaaay. That made me stutter-step too. Quite frankly, I'm not sure exactly what she's trying to say here, on a couple of different levels.

Next one, while continuing the description of these wines: "...Every wine that I tried smelled of sulfur initially and needed exposure to air to right itself. But for less than $8, these are but small quibbles." Um, actually, no they're not small quibbles. Not to me. It's a particular indicator that there's a whole lot of massic manipulation going on to process marginal grapes grown in the wrong conditions and then sulfured to death to stabilize them. And being under $8 doesn't make that a "flat out deal" or a "shockingly low" price.

Finally, she zeroes in on the Chardonnay, "which is nearly unrecognizable as chard. Instead, it's spritzy and bone dry, accented by notes of honeydew melon, flowers and cream. It would be killer with cold seafood, and for a mere $7.50, it could pass for something pricier." I'm having troubles with that description; maybe by this point I'm being to critical, but that description bothers me. Maybe it's the "nearly unrecognizable" or the "spritzy" that means something to me that it doesn't necessarily mean to her.

Okay, moving on: she skips to an Argentinian Malbec (Sol de Uco Valle de Uco Mendoza) and extols its virtues. Sounds like a big but balanced Malbec, and she really raves about it. That's fine. Everything is cool. Then I stutter step again when I read "One of the few wines in the world that actually merits its alcohol reading of 14.7%..." What? Merits its alcohol reading of 14.7%? Huh? This is a "big but balanced" wine that needs higher alcohol? Say what?

So: Am I just being too critical of the wording here? Am I making too much of this? Because it seems to me this writer does not really know or understand much of which she is writing about wine.

As Rachel Maddow says frequently: "Talk me down."

[David M. Bueker]

This write is a person with an agenda that does not know what they are talking about.

As for the sulfur being an indicator of massive manipulation - I have a few German wine makers who would like to talk to you.

This write is a person with an agenda that does not know what they are talking about.

As for the sulfur being an indicator of massive manipulation - I have a few German wine makers who would like to talk to you.

Would one have the initials "J. J."?

Hey, I'd say even there it's still an indication of massive manipulation. When you go that heavy with sulfur, it's massive, and it's manipulation. We just understand it and forgive here (that is, we forgive unless we make the mistake of opening and smelling the Prums before the stink has worn off. )

Sheesh, everyone knows that one grape vine can only produce a set amount of sugar (alcohol) so if it has more grapes then obvioulsy the alcohol per grape must be lower. Since it takes the same amount of grapes per bottle then obviously it follows that more grapes per vine results in lower alcohol wine.

In theory, at least, if you carry a really big crop, it takes longer to ripen, therefore less likely to reach uber-high sugars, hence less alcohol.

Sheesh, everyone knows that one grape vine can only produce a set amount of sugar (alcohol) so if it has more grapes then obvioulsy the alcohol per grape must be lower. Since it takes the same amount of grapes per bottle then obviously it follows that more grapes per vine results in lower alcohol wine.

You're a scary guy sometimes, you know that, Brian?

In theory, at least, if you carry a really big crop, it takes longer to ripen, therefore less likely to reach uber-high sugars, hence less alcohol.

Okay...in theory then, would this be aided/enhanced by extremely high elevations for the vines?

And how many really big crops do you suggest your growers carry?

Does the low alcohol/spritzy/sulfur stink description bother you at all, Steve?

[Jenise]

You think too much. I've got an article (about wine) I screamed through the other night that I could backatyou with. It's painful to know that the person who wrote that actually got compensated for their work.

Your writer might have written the recipe I was looking at yesterday, though: "A perfect recipe to make for company or a special weeknight meal." Apparently, weekends with the family are out. Huh?

In theory, at least, if you carry a really big crop, it takes longer to ripen, therefore less likely to reach uber-high sugars, hence less alcohol.

Okay...in theory then, would this be aided/enhanced by extremely high elevations for the vines?

And how many really big crops do you suggest your growers carry?

Does the low alcohol/spritzy/sulfur stink description bother you at all, Steve?

High is always good, right?

I always ask my growers to do the carrying; I've got a bad back.

If I don't have to smell it, it doesn't bother me at all...

This reminds me of that song Arkansas Traveler...

Well, with the caveat that I haven't heard/read that much hype since my last Billy Mays encounter (NB: I don't read Rimmerman) I can't say that she's got her facts too wrong. Lower alcohol could mean overcropping, but it certainly arise from any number of other factors. As for "meriting" the high alcohol, I think that that might be very poor wording. What she might mean is that the wine is in balance even at such a high ABV, but that's just a guess. I do wonder about her "atypical" Chardonnay profile and it makes me wonder what she considers typical: buttery, vanilla-scented pineapple, perhaps?

Thanks for the fascinating read, Hoke!
Mark Lipton

Hoke, Hi....

With regard to the author of the article under discussion:

There are them who know
There are them who thinks they know
There are them who thinks they do not know
There are them who know damned well that they do not know
And then there are those who don't think very much at all

Best and Chuckling
Rogov

Hoke, Hi....

With regard to the author of the article under discussion:

There are them who know
There are them who thinks they know
There are them who thinks they do not know
There are them who know damned well that they do not know
And then there are those who don't think very much at all

Best and Chuckling
Rogov

Are you channeling our former Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, Daniel?

I'm puzzled by this one. In the past, I've always thought the writer in question did a yeoman's job (given, again, that she's basically writing puff pieces to extoll wines people should seek out for whatever reason, and not true criticisms of the wines), but this appears to be more puff than usual, and less critical than usual.

The whole "overcropping means less alcohol and it's a good thing" sounds to me like a line the importer spieled out when she was tasting the wines, so it went down in the notes. I've never heard anyone (well, anyone but a grower trying to sell his crop) claim that overcropping on purpose was a good thing for the resulting wine.

Plus overcropping (and maybe a concomitant early harvesting to gain acidity) is, to me, patent manipulation, and thus indicative of a grape crop grown in an environment where it is not naturally suited. (Like there's not enough of that going around. )

And I believe its her wording/phrasing that is throwing me off. She's usually much better at the writing, and I really do think she knows her wine stuff. Maybe she just had an off day, or had to rush something to deadline?

In any case, I have no desire to try that Chardonnay from Brazil---reminds me of a misguided attempt by an Italian company to push a frizzante-styled Chardonnay as the next new thing for Chard. Gassy chard is not necessarily a good thing.

The Malbec sounds interesting from her description---it was just the wording that threw me off. Meriting vs. 'balanced even with the high alcohol", or even "handled its alcohol level well because....". Hey, we all make difficult word choices sometimes. Well, except for you, I mean.

[David M. Bueker]

Gassy chard is not necessarily a good thing.

Isn't gassy Chard the only good thing. Of course then it's usually known as Blancs de Blanc.

She seems to be a classic case of someone who knows just enough to be dangerous.

Thanks for the "interesting" read, Hoke!

I'm gearing up to respond, possibly from the local Brazilian perspective, but first want to ask what the winery is, in case it sheds some light.

I'm gearing up to respond, possibly from the local Brazilian perspective, but first want to ask what the winery is, in case it sheds some light.

That would be [b]2007 Pizzato Vale dos Vinhedos Chardonnay[/b] in the Serra Gaucha, elevations between 1,500 and 2,100 feet. Pizzato family emigrated to Brazil from the Veneto in 1880. Commentator said "Combine a cool subalpine climate with a northern Italian's light touch with whites and you get a wine like this."

You need to chill, Hoke. Perhaps I've been following politics too long and am just so used to spin, especially in this enlightened internet age when everyone and his mother can be a guru about anything...and nothing. Separating the wheat from the chaff has become ever so harder...

I'm gearing up to respond, possibly from the local Brazilian perspective, but first want to ask what the winery is, in case it sheds some light.

That would be 2007 Pizzato Vale dos Vinhedos Chardonnay[/b] in the Serra Gaucha, elevations between 1,500 and 2,100 feet. Pizzato family emigrated to Brazil from the Veneto in 1880. Commentator said "Combine a cool subalpine climate with a northern Italian's light touch with whites and you get a wine like this."

OK, now we have some elements!

A year ago Marcia and I visited Pizzato in the Vale dos Vinhedos and tried the 2008. Notes were:
[b]2008 Pizzato Chardonnay 13.0% Sees no wood. Floral and citric aromas. Fruit is tasty, but a bit artificial, like candy. Needs more acidity. Discreet bitter finish.

I came away from the trip believing that Brazil is currently making two kinds: a fruity stainless steel version that has little character and is best suited for poolside sipping (other grapes would do a much better job but chardonnay has more name recognition) and heavily oaked Burgundy wannabes that can't carry their oak and go down the route that gave many Cali chards a bad name in the 90s.

Something to be borne in mind in any discussion of wine from Vale dos Vinhedos is that, when Italian immigrants arrived in Brazil in the late 19th Century, the Brazilian government granted them land in an uninhabited valley in the middle of the southernmost state of Rio Grande do Sul, a valley with no viticulture or any particular vocation for such. Given a lemon, the immigrants made lemonade, that is, they started to make wine for their own consumption, in a region where it rains a lot and grapes have a hard time reaching full maturity. About the only advantage that could be claimed for this deficiency is that the region is structurally unable to emulate wines from the Andes, otherwise they would be copying those in droves.

None was higher than 12.5 percent alcohol by volume, which suggests that crop loads are higher in Brazil than what we are used to here. The result of harvesting more grapes per vine is a lighter-weight wine, perfectly suited for weeknights."

The 2008 was 13% but, be that as it may, moderate alcohol in the Vale dos Vinhedos is usually the result of maturation difficulties rather than high crop loads (though these, of course, can exist, though Pizzato position themselves as quality producers). 2007 was a mediocre vintage, so achiving ripeness was difficult. Her supposition, I agree, hardly follows, though it's not impossible that high loads led to dilution which led to moderate alcohol.

And then there's the "result of harvesting more grapes per vine is a lighter-weight wine, perfectly suited for weeknights." Okaaaay. That made me stutter-step too. Quite frankly, I'm not sure exactly what she's trying to say here, on a couple of different levels.

If it's weeknights in a hot tub, I'm sorry, but I have to agree with her.

Next one, while continuing the description of these wines: "...Every wine that I tried smelled of sulfur initially and needed exposure to air to right itself. But for less than $8, these are but small quibbles." Um, actually, no they're not small quibbles. Not to me. It's a particular indicator that there's a whole lot of massic manipulation going on to process marginal grapes grown in the wrong conditions and then sulfured to death to stabilize them. And being under $8 doesn't make that a "flat out deal" or a "shockingly low" price.."

Bingo!

Finally, she zeroes in on the Chardonnay, "which is nearly unrecognizable as chard. Instead, it's spritzy and bone dry, accented by notes of honeydew melon, flowers and cream. It would be killer with cold seafood, and for a mere $7.50, it could pass for something pricier." I'm having troubles with that description; maybe by this point I'm being to critical, but that description bothers me. Maybe it's the "nearly unrecognizable" or the "spritzy" that means something to me that it doesn't necessarily mean to her.

Indeed, what's the point of a chard that tastes like a muscadet or sauvignon blanc? Perhaps that is the holy grail for a tropical country, find a grape with name recognition and then vinify it so it tastes like a cool poolside sipper, a situation that masks the lack of acidity. The spritz is most likely induced CO2 to compensate for lack of acidity (Ceretto do the same to their Arneis, except with nice results). Not to mention the theory that chardonnay is so good at expressing terroir because it doesn't impose its own character as much as other white grapes do, so here that would backfire because there is little to express.

Okay, moving on: she skips to an Argentinian Malbec (Sol de Uco Valle de Uco Mendoza) and extols its virtues. Sounds like a big but balanced Malbec, and she really raves about it. That's fine. Everything is cool. Then I stutter step again when I read "One of the few wines in the world that actually merits its alcohol reading of 14.7%..." What? Merits its alcohol reading of 14.7%? Huh? This is a "big but balanced" wine that needs higher alcohol? Say what?

By "merits" I suppose she means "wears it well,""otherwise it would make no sense at all. Assuming she means "wears it well," it's still very unlikely.

Don't chill, kill!

[David M. Bueker]

Hoke,

It could be worse. She could be trying to write an article on the historical pricing of Armand de Brignac and how hip-hop artists "made" Cristal as some freelancer is trying to do over on eBob (trolling for data). Needless to say we're giving him a little bit of the business. Take a look here for a little comic relief.

High is always good, right?

I always ask my growers to do the carrying; I've got a bad back.

If I don't have to smell it, it doesn't bother me at all...

This reminds me of that song Arkansas Traveler...

Hello stranger.

I sell wine hear in Oregon and I read the same article. I usually find her reccomendations to be quite good. I tasted through several of the wines from this importer including the Chardonnay. I was very disappointed in their quality especially at their prices then, about $15-18. There is only 1 other Brazilian winery here in our market, Marcus James. I kind of laugh when someone trys to justify their price because they are the only ones from that area. I remember when I had someone show me numerous wines from Moldova. For my taste they did not meet the quality levels for their prices for our market. I feel the same thing when people use single-vineyard or low production to justify high prices. For me it must be in the bottle.

I sell wine hear in Oregon and I read the same article. I usually find her reccomendations to be quite good. I tasted through several of the wines from this importer including the Chardonnay. I was very disappointed in their quality especially at their prices then, about $15-18. There is only 1 other Brazilian winery here in our market, Marcus James. I kind of laugh when someone trys to justify their price because they are the only ones from that area. I remember when I had someone show me numerous wines from Moldova. For my taste they did not meet the quality levels for their prices for our market. I feel the same thing when people use single-vineyard or low production to justify high prices. For me it must be in the bottle.

Michael, I've found most of her reccos fairly good too. I don't doubt she has a good palate; and I don't doubt that she's knowledgeable about wine either. I think in this instance she was impressed by the importer and his enthusiasm, and even the most demanding of people will respond to a great story well told, and be prone to be more forgiving than would be the norm.

Or the wines may have tasted really good at that time. Who knows.

I've certainly been enthusiastic at times, only to taste later and realize the wine really didn't impress me all that much. (Which tells me perhaps the gurus who can make pinpoint numbers ratings based on one sip at any given moment are full of it???)

It does seem to me the article was either hastily written, or the writer had already decided to be positive about the wines regardless of how they tasted.

One thing that was really interesting to me was her repeated mantra that the $7.50 was "shockingly good" and a "flat out deal". I know you have any number of wines, some locally, some regionally, some nationally, perhaps even some internationally that consistently come in at or below that price.

I was much more interested in the Malbec. But again, couldn't help but notice both wines being written about were raved on...but with caveats. I like wines that are good...not ones that are "good, if you ignore this and concentrate on the low price." If you have to forgive it when you're praising it, how good can it be.

Thanks, Oswalda, for the excellent background. And thanks, Oswaldo and Michael, for the tasting responses.

Like I said: you guys are my peeps.

Ah Hoke! I think you are being too hard on her. Not considering the majority of the targeted readers of her article.

Salute

Ah Hoke! I think you are being too hard on her. Not considering the majority of the targeted readers of her article.

Salute

Well, I did begin the initial post with

A newspaper wine commentator---not so much a critic as a promoter of selected wines---had an article recently wherein she was mentioning some wines she had been impressed with...enough to write about them in the newspaper.

Usual "Food Section" stuff, and that's okay.

But I stopped short a couple of times during the article, knocked off balance by some things the writer said, and had to stutter step to figure out what she meant.

I agree that this was just a puff piece in a Food Section to push some wines, Victor. And as such, not to be taken too seriously. It was the unusual statements and the contradictory thoughts that caught my attention, and that's what I was commenting on. And as Michael and I both noted, this woman is usually pretty good at what she does, so this was an anomaly.

And the target audience? You're right. But I shudder when I think that someone reading this would authoritatively go out and tell people that overcropping is a good thing because it keeps alcohols down!!!

It's also partial information becoming misinformation: if you read Oswaldo's post, his take on the region (marginal at best, and not suited to the kind of wine varieties they are making) is a very different place than what you get from the article. Why push marginal wines from marginal places when there are plenty of other wines from other places that are more worth raving about?