"Why doesn't somebody just shoot him?"

[Jenise]

...I said to my husband as we sat in a little outdoor restaurant in Key West the other night and listened in on the wine blowhard pontificating, rather inaccurately, to two women, possibly wife and daughter, at the next table--he just droned on and on, never coming up for air, and jumped topics like a flea. In the space of just five minutes, we 'learned':

"Carmenere is to Chile what Malbec is to Argentina. It's all they drink down there. They make Cabernet and a few other red grapes but they're only for export."

"The Bordelais are the meanest people on earth."

"Soave is the best white grape in the world, and Pieropan is the best soave maker, but you can't buy it in New Jersey."

"It's illegal to grow chardonnay in Canada."

"Pinot noir just doesn't sell well in America."

We were HOWLING.

Jenise
How dare you listen in on my conversations!!
regards
Ian

LOL. Please shoot any of us when we start doing this! I'm sure many of us could start pontificating on our favorite subject. Hell...I got caught by my friends using the word "typicite"

Hmmm, maybe I don't get the point of your story. Are you claiming that some of the things he said aren't true??!!

[James Roscoe]

Of course the Bordelais are the meanest people on earth. Why do you think Alex lives there?

"Soave is the best white grape in the world, and Pieropan is the best soave maker, but you can't buy it in New Jersey."

If I shot everyone who's ever said that to me...

My wife and I once had to endure overhearing a doofus explain the subtleties of "pie-knot noer" to his dining companions - "The best pie-knot comes from France... its an understated pie-knot. The pie-knot from California is a fruity pie-knot, and fruity pie-knot doesn't age well, so you want to drink California pie-knot noers young..."

LOL. Please shoot any of us when we start doing this! I'm sure many of us could start pontificating on our favorite subject. Hell...I got caught by my friends using the word "typicite"

You pontificate? What ultra right wing fascist was responsible for such a fabrication. On second thought, I would have to admit you're not exacly pithy most of the time either.

I recall Vinexpo 2007 at Bdx - the UGC tasting in particular. This large, nattily-dressed South American was, in a very loud voice (in Spanish), pompously "teaching" his family (wife and daughters) about wine - just the basic Wine 101 stuff one can pick up in any book.

He took a taste of the wine I and 3 others (all in suits; one from the UK wine press had said it was quite nice) had just tasted and were busily scribbling notes of. The large fellow (switching to English for some reason) boomed to the pourer that the wine was obviously corked. The pourer looked puzzled and answered: "Zees wine ees not yet bottled, so zere ees no cohk. Ze cover ees plasteek." The large one looked flustered and shouted "Then there is something else wrong with your wine!" and stomped off with his family in tow.

Too funny.

We stopped scribbling and re-tasted the wine from the same allegedly corked bottle - and all agreed that there was nothing wrong with it.

Another amusing incident I came across was in Beaune, at a wine bar in Place Carnot. I was in a wine shop (one of the few that sells older vintages) that has a small wine bar on the side. While I was looking at the bottles across the bar, this very tall, lanky American (most likely from the south due to his accent), goes up to the bartender and boomed: "Do you have any pinot noir here? I'd like a glass of pinot noir!!!".

The look on the pourer' face was precious, but he just silently obliged. I stayed a few seconds more as he spoke to his colleague, hoping to catch what he'd say. Surprisingly, he said nothing of the incident that just transpired.

Noel
Yes TCA is perhaps the most common cause of dispute / embarassment amongst wine enthusiasts / trade. As such it's a lesson for that chap to be less strident/assertive. Why not say "I'm not sure about this wine and think it might be corked. Would you mind having a taste of it to check?". I'm unlucky in being rubbish at spotting TCA, but lucky in recognising that I'm not very sensitive to it.

As for the Pinot Noir man, one could only hope he was someone mostly uninterested in wine and who just happened to find himself in Beaune. Again though, another reason why booming out one's ignorance can give a very poor impression. Absolute credit to the pourer though - true professionalism.

regards

Ian

I like Pieropan too.

Great story about the American in Burgundy, Noel.

I think I know the place in the Place Carnot you mention.

Did you, by any chance, get to Le Gourmandin restaurant in the Place Carnot? It's a particular nostalgic favorite of mine since we stayed above it in one of their rooms for a couple of days whilst in Beaune. Had a lovely dinner there (tenderloin of rabbit en croute with a thread of pate through it and accompanied by a lovely mustard sauce and a deliciously appropriate Marsannay). Noticed also that there were quite a few of the local winemaker families there---some of the younger Jadots and Bichots---chowing down and enjoying themselves immensely.

LOL...thank you the chuckles all.

Have to admit Sam Platt's "pie-knot noer" anecdote had me puzzled and then dimly lit light-bulb clicked on.

I should have known better as I grew up in the east-end of Montreal where one of the main streets that goes north-south past the Olympic Stadium is Pie IX as in Pius the 9th or Pie Neuf but I had to direct more than one tourist inquiring about, "...this PIE Nine".

I like Pieropan too.

You mean you don't like pie-knot?

I like Pieropan too.

You mean you don't like pie-knot?

Or Rice-ling?

Great story about the American in Burgundy, Noel.

I think I know the place in the Place Carnot you mention.

Did you, by any chance, get to Le Gourmandin restaurant in the Place Carnot? It's a particular nostalgic favorite of mine since we stayed above it in one of their rooms for a couple of days whilst in Beaune. Had a lovely dinner there (tenderloin of rabbit en croute with a thread of pate through it and accompanied by a lovely mustard sauce and a deliciously appropriate Marsannay). Noticed also that there were quite a few of the local winemaker families there---some of the younger Jadots and Bichots---chowing down and enjoying themselves immensely.

Hi, Hoke.

Yes, I've been to Le Gourmandin, but ate there only once for dinner. My favorite places to eat at and nearby Beaune is Ma Cuisine (very reasonably priced and typical cuisine) and Le Montrachet (the latter in nearby Puligny-Montrachet). Le Jardin des Remparts and Morillon's in Beaune are also good, no doubt, but I wasn't overly impressed considering their prices and styles. For those prices/types of cuisine, one could get pretty much the same kind of food and better in Paris. When in Burgundy, I prefer more traditional cuisine - so Ma Cuisine is my absolute favorite - incredible wine list too.

When I first went to Burgundy several years ago, I got a list of recommended restaurants from a friend, Jerome Francois. He runs their family's wine barrel making business (one of the biggest in France) and, though their large factory is in Bdx, his family has roots in Burgundy - so he knows the restaurants in the latter very well. One of his recommendations for a casual meal was Le Gourmandin - that's how I wound up eating there.

Best,

N

Excellent, Noel!

Of the restaurants you cited the only one I haven't been to is Morillon. Very much agree on Ma Maison.

When I dined at Le Montrachet it was in the company of one of the largest wine producers/landholders...who also happened to be at the time the Mayor of Chagny and good friend of the owner of Le Montrachet. So I have no idea whether what we had was typical or not, and never saw a menu. Whichever the case, it was incredibly good.

There was another place, on the road leading from Beaune up into the Hautes Cotes...but sadly I have forgotten the name now. It was a lovely white house, and was very cozy inside, and the cuisine featured local foods primarily, and traditional Bourgogne dishes. And an incredible cheese selection. I remember all but the name, in fact.

Also if you find yourself between Mercurey and St. Romain, there is a French version of a 'truck stop' restaurant called, I believe, Maison Blanc. When we pulled up there were indeed rows of lorries outside and burly worker types inside...but there were also quite a few locals and the rustic, hearty and honest cuisine was superb. There was also a chalkboard list that day of the 14 Mercureys being offered as specials! As a courtesy to our host, the chef whipped up a special order of oeufs en meurette for us. Delicious!

"The best pie-knot comes from France... its an understated pie-knot. The pie-knot from California is a fruity pie-knot, and fruity pie-knot doesn't age well, so you want to drink California pie-knot noers young..."

Ye gads...someone should revoke Hoke's passport. He is really still going around claiming California "pie-knot" does not age well?

Of the restaurants you cited the only one I haven't been to is Morillon. Very much agree on Ma Maison.

Definitely a great place, and I love Fabienn'es assortment of "homemade" pies for dessert. I've tried them all pretty much, but my and my wife's favorite is the fig pie. I love having their roast pigeon with one of Dujac's Morey-St-Denis.

I'm very much a creature of habit and, thus, left to my own devices, will go to the same restaurant over and over until I can take no more. My wife complains about that sometimes, but never when I suggest Ma Cuisine.

When I dined at Le Montrachet it was in the company of one of the largest wine producers/landholders...who also happened to be at the time the Mayor of Chagny and good friend of the owner of Le Montrachet. So I have no idea whether what we had was typical or not, and never saw a menu. Whichever the case, it was incredibly good.

For sure what you had was excellent. I go there just with my wife. One memorable lunch there, it was a hot summer day, I remember mostly an excellent cochon noir main course and relaxing thereafter at the little park across the street with my wife, under the shade of the trees, enjoying a nice cigar, while we watched some village youths play petanque.

There was another place, on the road leading from Beaune up into the Hautes Cotes...but sadly I have forgotten the name now. It was a lovely white house, and was very cozy inside, and the cuisine featured local foods primarily, and traditional Bourgogne dishes. And an incredible cheese selection. I remember all but the name, in fact.

Also if you find yourself between Mercurey and St. Romain, there is a French version of a 'truck stop' restaurant called, I believe, Maison Blanc. When we pulled up there were indeed rows of lorries outside and burly worker types inside...but there were also quite a few locals and the rustic, hearty and honest cuisine was superb. There was also a chalkboard list that day of the 14 Mercureys being offered as specials! As a courtesy to our host, the chef whipped up a special order of oeufs en meurette for us. Delicious!

These I have not been to, unfortunately, but will seek them out next I'm there. Thanks!

Best,

N

Interesting to see that this thread still has life, and fortuitous for me. Last night, Jean and I hosted our annual Christmas fête for our research groups. Well on into the evening, I was speaking with a newly joined member of my lab who styles himself a wine expert (he reads the Spec, natch) and the conversation turned to the film "Sideways." At this point, the husband of one of Jean's graduate students (whose family makes wine in Paso) butts in with the comment "The worst thing about that film is that they were all drink Pinot Noir! No one in California drinks Pinot Noir becauses it's all blended with other grapes! It's not even a real red wine." Now, this guy was obviously six sheets to the wind, but I really had to think of how to respond. Do I:
a) Mention that I'm a California native, too, and lived in the state for longer than this guy's likely been alive?
b) Mention that I know a thing or two about wine (he should know that by now anyway)?
c) Set about to refute the numerous factual errors in his one drunken outburst?
or
d) ignore him?

In the end, I did address him and pointed out that California was a big place and that, while I agreed that Paso wasn't the place where I'd grow Pinot, places like Carneros, the Anderson Valley, the Russian River Valley and Santa Barbara County were pretty well suited to the grape. I then left my wine expert student to take on the larger errors.

I later saw this guy's wife later reining him in, as well she should have, especially as her family's wine ain't half bad, as evidenced by the bottle she brought to our soirée:
2004 Locatelli Cabernet Sauvignon (Paso Robles)
nose: smoky, herbal, cassis fruit, oak
palate: medium-full body, moderate acidity, slightly coarse tannins, fruity core

I'll return to it soon under better conditions (this was tasted after 6 bottles of Chandon sparklers had been opened and consumed).

Mark Lipton

I like Pieropan too.

You mean you don't like pie-knot?

Or Rice-ling?

Since the French kindly put up with my accent when I speak their language, I tend to be forgiving of pronunciation errors.

Too funny.

I might not have been able to resist laughing pointedly in the direction of the pedant, inviting him to aks me why I was laughing....

LOL. Please shoot any of us when we start doing this! I'm sure many of us could start pontificating on our favorite subject. Hell...I got caught by my friends using the word "typicite"

You pontificate? What ultra right wing fascist was responsible for such a fabrication. On second thought, I would have to admit you're not exacly pithy most of the time either.

Pthhhp!

Since the French kindly put up with my accent when I speak their language, I tend to be forgiving of pronunciation errors.

Are you the same Jonathan Loesberg who wrote about Pierre Bourdieu and the Sociology of Aesthetics?