Your input needed: Future format for WT101?

[Robin Garr]

As we continue shaping the relationship between WLDG and the Netscape/CompuServe Forum, the informal advisory group and I have been kicking around the best way to handle WineTasting 101, both in terms of its format and location and its focus and purpose.

We're definitely happy with the concept - a month-long focus on a specific variety or region, encouraging tasting notes and discussion aimed not only at newbies but more advanced wine geeks as well - but we're still wrestling with questions about where and how it works best.

Accordingly, I've set up this little poll, and would encourage as many of you as possible to participate and to post comments. If you HAVE participated in past WT101 topics, we're interested in your thoughts on how we should handle it in the future. If you have NOT chosen to participate, I'd particularly appreciate hearing why the concept hasn't worked for you, and what it might take to make it more interesting for you to participate, either as pupil or mentor.

I think WT 101 should be here, speaking as a regular poster.
The way I see things now..where is one supposed to post Merlot notes this month? The Miles thread or open a new topic? I have cross posted 4 notes but has anyone seen them , see Miles thread. It is all very confusing isn`t it?

I think that on Netscape one should have some kinda tasting each month. Something for the newbies especially and I would be happy to play a part in organizing. It is a lot of fun and educational and I know some others will help. The wine could be a Beaujolais, a German Riesling, a NZ Sauvignon Blanc. Keep it simple and have a wine that is readily available. Say start off with Ravenswood Lodi Zin for example.

Comments?

Thanks Bob P aka Doris.

I agree, I think WT101 should be here as well as a seperate forum.

Robin
Thanks for asking!
Personally a few of the topics have passed me by and I don't want to buy wines specifically, as I've got to drink what I have already. So I'm likely to be an infrequent poster there. I like the idea though and I see the merits of
a) Giving people a wider perspective than their favourite regions
b) Creating a high level "palate callibration" with similar wines being tasted

Location: Here, I just find this site easier.

Idea: Some topics might not warrant a full month, so what about a weekend special every month, covering narrow areas, or areas that might be difficult to spread across a month. Some sample topics: Musar or other high profile individual producers; expensive wines (bearing in mind some of us need encouragment to bring out the gems); Austria might have worked well in a weekend?; obscure grape/wine weekend

regards

Ian

I think WT 101 should be here, speaking as a regular poster.
The way I see things now..where is one supposed to post Merlot notes this month? The Miles thread or open a new topic? I have cross posted 4 notes but has anyone seen them , see Miles thread. It is all very confusing isn`t it?

Hi Bob,
I've seen them in the sticky Miles thread. I haven't seen the crossposted notes. Where were they crossposted?

As we continue shaping the relationship between WLDG and the Netscape/CompuServe Forum, the informal advisory group and I have been kicking around the best way to handle WineTasting 101, both in terms of its format and location and its focus and purpose.

We're definitely happy with the concept - a month-long focus on a specific variety or region, encouraging tasting notes and discussion aimed not only at newbies but more advanced wine geeks as well - but we're still wrestling with questions about where and how it works best.

Accordingly, I've set up this little poll, and would encourage as many of you as possible to participate and to post comments. If you HAVE participated in past WT101 topics, we're interested in your thoughts on how we should handle it in the future. If you have NOT chosen to participate, I'd particularly appreciate hearing why the concept hasn't worked for you, and what it might take to make it more interesting for you to participate, either as pupil or mentor.

I've been thinking about this a bit. I hardly ever used to contribute to the original WLDG's WT101 forum, as I just never went there. If I did look at that forum it always seemed to be the same people posting. It wasn't until I was asked to be a host last year for NZ wines I realised how much fun it could be and I learnt a lot myself at the same time by answering some of the curly questions I was posed, and found out that more people participated than I originally thought - or maybe it was just the topic of the month that spurred the interest

But I've quite liked this month's topic, Merlot, being a sticky in the main forum and even made a comment on the one and only American Merlot that I've tried. I feel that if my WTN for the Ravenswood hadn't been in that thread, fewer people would have read it, than those who did so by being where it is. In fact fewer people would have read it because they would have been immediately turned off by the fact that it was Ravenswood and it would be on page 4 of the forum threads by now with 20-odd views, which is not conducive to posting more WTN's in the future.

This sticky has been a great success and I quite like everything being in one thread. Those of us who read it a lot can easily jump to the end of the thread each time. And if you prefix WTN, it can still be searched for. Just my thoughts from the colonies.

Cheers,
Sue

Sue, I would quote you but have a problem figuring out how it works!
You mention the number of views/lack of when posting WTNs. That is something that has always bugged me but what can one do? I try to reply to other people notes just to make them feel needed!! On another forum overseas, I stopped posting notes `cos I never ever got any type of reaction.

I have just checked the number of views over there and it is pretty sad. 11 views for this 18 for that. Lets move it!!

[Jenise]

Ian said:

I like the idea though and I see the merits of
a) Giving people a wider perspective than their favourite regions
b) Creating a high level "palate callibration" with similar wines being tasted

Ian, that's exactly what WT101 offers. Good experience for the person who's new to one--kind of an online tasting buddy--and a fun/informative way to expand horizons for more experienced tasters like us.

Interesting suggestion about the wine weekend for smaller regions or more specialized topics, like a specific producer. Say we were to take that on and you were given the opportunity of choosing the first topic: what would it be?

I'd echo Ian and hope that the topics wouldn't last month but maybe a week or two!

And yes, I would like a sub-forum here for it. I'm really getting tired of the Netscrap place.

[Jenise]

Otto, as a long time supporter of this forum and the 101 effort, I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you'd choose a sub-forum over a stick here in the main forum and separate TN's.

Jenise, I am of course not Otto, but I dislike the sticky. The current sticky concerning merlot is a perfect example of why I don't. It has grown way out of control in length, and runs so far down the page that I feel like giving up before getting to any meat. Merlot feh! :

Jenise, I am of course not Otto, but I dislike the sticky. The current sticky concerning merlot is a perfect example of why I don't. It has grown way out of control in length, and runs so far down the page that I feel like giving up before getting to any meat. Merlot feh! :

Well, you certainly think like Otto!

Jenise, Bob answered well: it is cumbersome and lacks clarity.

[Robin Garr]

It has grown way out of control in length, and runs so far down the page that I feel like giving up before getting to any meat. Merlot feh! :

AHA!! I don't view the forum in threaded view, so that hadn't occurred to me. Yes ... stickies are TERRIBLE for people using thread view if you have a long thread in a sticky at the top of the page. That's a *very* strong argument against doing it that way, and frankly, I hadn't thought about that.

[Jenise]

Jenise, Bob answered well: it is cumbersome and lacks clarity.

Bob and Otto--excellent point. Those of us who don't use threaded view wouldn't have that issue. A sticky's just a one-liner, so to speak.

But let me ask this question of both of you. Were the options clear? By sticky+separate TN's, we meant a sticky announcement with whatever traffic that generated, but no TN's posted to the thread. All the TN's would be posted as normal TN's and have their own shelflives. Or are you just against any stickies at all, so you'd prefer the separate forum to eliminate having to stumble over one every time you came to the main forum?

Interesting suggestion about the wine weekend for smaller regions or more specialized topics, like a specific producer. Say we were to take that on and you were given the opportunity of choosing the first topic: what would it be?

Jenise
I'd probably choose Musar just for it's controversy value (I'm a fan)

Otherwise I'd go for "bring out your treasures" weekend, with everyone opening a wine (or wines) they'd yet to find and excuse to open

Or nebbiolo - not a grape you'd want too much of in a week, but a useful one for considering the specific flavours that I find unique to good Nebbiolo's

Hopefully when people have come up with ideas for WT101, they'll remember the ones they rejected because they couldn't face more than 2 bottles of it (Rose perhaps )

I think I've been a little unlucky with the recent categories on WT101 (we did have a bottle of Austrian riesling, but drank it a few months earlier. We don't have a single bottle of straight Merlot , etc.)

I support the idea even if my input has been lacking to date!

Otto: Yes, a week would work just as well. Perhaps some months there's a full topic and others are 2-3 single weeks worth (or 2-3 topics running in parallel - I'm sure it will be lovely in threaded view ). I'm sure there's lots of viable options.

regards

Ian

Jenise, I am of course not Otto, but I dislike the sticky. The current sticky concerning merlot is a perfect example of why I don't. It has grown way out of control in length, and runs so far down the page that I feel like giving up before getting to any meat. Merlot feh! :

Bob - have you tried the 'Flat' view. After realising that you were using threaded, I changed my screen to 'threaded' to have a look, and the whole presentation of the page is actually quite horrible. Especially the index page. With flat, there is less clicking to do (always a bonus), and if the person you are replying to is quoted in the reply, as I've done here, the threading really does become redundant. However if you have a flat view, then you can change it to threaded once you get into a long thread, if you really want to.
Try it and see what you think. After a few times, you might actually see the benefits of having 'flat' as the default.
Cheers,
Sue

Jenise, I am of course not Otto, but I dislike the sticky. The current sticky concerning merlot is a perfect example of why I don't. It has grown way out of control in length, and runs so far down the page that I feel like giving up before getting to any meat. Merlot feh! :

Bob, have you noticed the little icon to the left of the subject title that looks like a right pointing arrow and a yellow page? If you click on this it goes to the new entries in the thread automatically. It is not obvious that this is clickable. See if that helps.

Bob and Otto--excellent point. Those of us who don't use threaded view wouldn't have that issue. A sticky's just a one-liner, so to speak.

But let me ask this question of both of you. Were the options clear? By sticky+separate TN's, we meant a sticky announcement with whatever traffic that generated, but no TN's posted to the thread. All the TN's would be posted as normal TN's and have their own shelflives. Or are you just against any stickies at all, so you'd prefer the separate forum to eliminate having to stumble over one every time you came to the main forum?

Yes it was clear. And yes I still think that a sticky with (possibly) many on going discussions is a bit cumbersome to follow - even without the threaded view. Of course it's a balance between the admittedly slight hassle of everything jumbled up together, and the hassle of making an entirely new sub-forum. Is it difficult to add a new subforum? That would only have to be done once...

I'd probably choose Musar just for it's controversy value (I'm a fan)

Ian, I'm not sure it's all that controversial here - I've brainwashed everyone and made them into fans

Jenise, I am not against sticky's just to be difficult, nor am I against them in total. But when they reach the level that the current one about merlot, which is about 60 posts, they grow too cumbersome. Plus in this case I am not very intertested in merlot makes this particular sticky more (to me) troublesome. Something though to think about Jenise, is that while I do read the forum every day, I don't (as I once did) read every post. With Eric's software it was easy to do because I could have unread posts in one color and the read ones in another color. It was just an easier place to read. This forum while it is so much better than the Netscape place, it still (by comparison) leaves a lot to be desired. So, if Robin wants to have 60 post stickies then let him. After all this is his place and the rest of us are visitors who shouldn't complain. However, as others have said it would be easier if we didn't leave them up for so long before they bite the bit bucket, or are archived. All this is my opinion only, that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee in some locations.

Jenise, I am of course not Otto, but I dislike the sticky. The current sticky concerning merlot is a perfect example of why I don't. It has grown way out of control in length, and runs so far down the page that I feel like giving up before getting to any meat. Merlot feh! :

Bob, have you noticed the little icon to the left of the subject title that looks like a right pointing arrow and a yellow page? If you click on this it goes to the new entries in the thread automatically. It is not obvious that this is clickable. See if that helps.

Please note, this icon is on the subject index page ot The Wine Forum (and all the other forums). I should have made the a bit clearer.

[Jenise]

Bob, never thought you were trying to be difficult, not at all. I was just trying to be sure I understood where you were coming from. I don't like the long sticky myself, mostly because I don't think the TNs get the attention they deserve. But I tend to think the forum is better off on the whole with the TNs here rather than isolated in another forum. Because of that, I wanted to be sure everybody was on the same page when they voted, that's all.

Jenise, you bring up a good point which I have asked about recently. Merlot tasting notes are being posted on this long Miles thread/whatever. They are getting lost there amongst all the other stuff. The sooner we have a WT 101 here the better.
I have also suggested that on Netscape we should run something other than the said WT 101. Pick a wine that is readily available, let forumites go out and purchase and then taste posting impressions after, even ask a few questions.
This would be educational and fun for those taking part. Quite a few people are intimidated posting notes but we could make it simple and hence more enjoyable.

Bob P.

Hi Neil,

thanks for the pointer, but yes I am aware of the right pointing arrow and the little yellow icon, and it works very well the FIRST time one visits the thread. however after that it does no good to click on the icon or the arrow. So, in the case of a 60 post thread it is of little help. (depending of course upon when one first visits the thread). So, unless it is the fault of my cantankerous ( or as some might have it over zealous) security protection, I can use this once in each thread. I find that clicking on the "view posts since last visit" of more help. Of course that then, presupposes that I read all the posts available on my last visit, which I rarely have time (or inclination) to do. As pleased as I am with the advent of this forum, It just doesn't live up to what I would have, given my druthers.

[Robin Garr]

I am aware of the right pointing arrow and the little yellow icon, and it works very well the FIRST time one visits the thread. however after that it does no good to click on the icon or the arrow. So, in the case of a 60 post thread it is of little help. (depending of course upon when one first visits the thread).

Cookies, Bob. When you nuke ALL cookies after every visit, you're throwing away your pointer to the last messages read. It's your call, if you want to do that, but I don't believe it's the fault of the forum software. Have you tried putting wineloverspage.com on a "trusted site" list so its cookies can stay? You'll probably find the forum more user-friendly if you do. Bear in mind that all cookies aren't evil.