Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11773
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Keith M
Beer Explorer
1184
Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am
Finger Lakes, New York
Office of Champagne, USA wrote:The bottles of Gallo’s André sparkling wine with references to “California Champagne” and “André Champagne Cellars” are in direct violation of export laws in numerous countries that protect the place names of wine regions. Under EU law, use of the word Champagne on wine labels is intended exclusively for wines produced in the Champagne region of France under the strict regulations of the region’s Appellation of Controlled Origin (AOC). These laws ensure that consumers are not misled by falsely labeled bottles. As a result, any U.S. product that misuses the Champagne name and seeks to enter an export market that protects consumers from misleading labels is considered counterfeit.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
wrcstl wrote:I think this is really funny. I thought Hoke said this does not happen anymore (sorta). Maybe they will take the word off their wine.
Walt
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1076
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
Keith M wrote:Office of Champagne, USA wrote:The bottles of Gallo’s André sparkling wine with references to “California Champagne” and “André Champagne Cellars” are in direct violation of export laws in numerous countries that protect the place names of wine regions. Under EU law, use of the word Champagne on wine labels is intended exclusively for wines produced in the Champagne region of France under the strict regulations of the region’s Appellation of Controlled Origin (AOC). These laws ensure that consumers are not misled by falsely labeled bottles. As a result, any U.S. product that misuses the Champagne name and seeks to enter an export market that protects consumers from misleading labels is considered counterfeit.
Hmmmmm,
Option 1: Government authorities actually believe that European consumers will think, "ahhh, André --real wine for real people, from California, France."
Option 2: Competitors who produce sparkling wine in Europe do what good capitalists always do--seek to avoid competition.
Hoke wrote:wrcstl wrote:I think this is really funny. I thought Hoke said this does not happen anymore (sorta). Maybe they will take the word off their wine.
Walt
Nope, Hoke didn't say that it doesn't happen.
Hoke said that the EU Trade negotiators agreed to allow the use of the term "Champagne" on wine labels for US companies (who had been grandfathered from prior use, had to be accompanied by a specific statement of location/source, i.e., "California Champagne", blah blah blah). But that was primarily to allow the usage to continue in the US; it wasn't to allow shipping of that product to European countries.
I'm happy that the Belgian Border Guards stand ever vigilant, though, to protect incredibly stupid Belgians from potentially mistaking Andre for Krug Vintage. Lord knows, I do that all the time myself, and don't want to think of some Belge screwing up his frites and mayonnaise with the outre stuff.
On another topic, I'm wondering, now that the Champenoise have announced they are hoping to annex huge swathes of additional land that they can then call "Champagne", just exactly how they are planning on 'splaining that Champagne is so sacrosanct in the first place.
But then, I'm stupid (not Stupid, mind you, just lower case stupid) about stuff like that.
Keith M
Beer Explorer
1184
Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am
Finger Lakes, New York
Oliver McCrum wrote:I have to disagree. I think that US producers would be outraged if people started calling wine from Sicily 'Dry Creek Red', and the better our reputation gets here the more we'll defend it. Just look at the fuss raised about the use of the word 'Zinfandel' by producers from Apulia, when Zinfandel is just one of the names of their shared grape. I don't think many people would defend the mis-use of words like 'Burgundy' and 'Chablis,' why is Champagne different?
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11773
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
wrcstl wrote: I will repeat, as I have many times, we overestimate the average wine buyer's intelligence and I don't care if they are Belgian, Austrailian, French of from the US; if it says Champagne, then it must be.
Walt
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Mike Pollard wrote:It does not seem to have been noted here but according to the Australian press the wine was destined for Nigeria. Maybe the Champagne was part payment (celebration!) for a share in a few hundred million $ that seems to be always wanting to make its way out of Nigeria.
Mike
Hoke wrote:And now that you've weighed in on the one topic, what do you think about the other topic I mentioned? That of the Champagne AOC land expansion? Any opinions?
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
wrcstl wrote:Hoke wrote:And now that you've weighed in on the one topic, what do you think about the other topic I mentioned? That of the Champagne AOC land expansion? Any opinions?
I don't like it but find it less offensive than the original topic. The problem is that it happens everywhere in Europe. The one that jumps to mind immediately is Croze Hermitage, an area that makes some very average wines but has expanded their area tremendously to take advantage of a well know wine growing area. What about a 1st Growth buying up more land? For us terroirists it is the land not the winemaker.
Walt
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1076
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
Hoke wrote:Walt (and Oliver):
Just for the record, I don't personally believe that anyone (personal or corporate anyone) should be shipping "California Champagne" to Europe. It's counterproductive, imo. Why create problems when you don't need to? I see nothing whatsoever wrong with shipping "California Sparking Wine" to those markets---if it is indeed productive to ship that kind of product into that kind of market.
It's very easy to do a label run. And other producing markets conform to US market considerations and requirements, so why shouldn't we do the reverse? Just makes good business sense.
Oliver: get outraged if you want to. It's probably good for your cardiovascular system to do that occasionally. Then breathe deeply, cleansing breath, and figure that if it's legal here to label things a certain way.....and the EU has said that they (grudgingly, but nonetheless) agree that it is legal and allowable to do that here...then it's gonna happen. Human nature.
And now that you've weighed in on the one topic, what do you think about the other topic I mentioned? That of the Champagne AOC land expansion? Any opinions?
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
The Italians have also been guilty of such expansions beyond a classic appellation (the original part is often called 'Classico' now, eg 'Soave Classico'). I think that the expansion would be a mistake unless the new areas are of at least average quality and typicity, and I don't know whether that's true. I presume that the Grandes Marques are behind this, and I can't imagine why anyone would buy GM Champagne these days anyway...
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1076
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1076
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Oliver McCrum wrote:Hoke,
I think Chablis was the poster-child for this kind of expansion before, sadly...and St. Joseph, maybe.
The producer's name is our only real guarantee, as always.
Paul Winalski
Wok Wielder
8880
Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm
Merrimack, New Hampshire
Oliver McCrum wrote:I was shocked to find that even Schramsberg have given up; for ages they were the only non-cheeseball winery to use the term 'Champagne' on their labels, and they fought it tooth and nail. (Now they say 'Methode Champenoise', which is illegal in Europe too, but they're improving.)
Pretty nice to think that for once, the lawyers and combined legislatures of a wide number of countries actually concocted a law that when followed, results in a lesser availability of badly made bubbly!
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