Vegetarianism and Wine

I was noodling around on the "main" wineloverspage and came across the food and wine matcher. Being a vegetarian I was of course curious to see what opinions would be proffered under the "vegetarian dishes link".

I was more than a little annoyed by the authors' opinion that "it's hard to be a serious wine lover and shun meat". While I can't dispute the examples he gave about matching red wine with steak and white wine with seafood the rest of the assumptions loaded into that statement seem palpably wrong to me.

For starters, why must (and note I stress the word must) loving wine involve combining it with food? At the moment I drink very little wine with meals for the simple reason that I have small children, we all eat together quite early in the evening and I'd rather relax and enjoy my wine later when the little ones are in bed. While I may be missing out on some interesting flavour combinations, I don't see why drinking a glass on it's own prevents me from appreciating the wine itself.

It's also worth noting that with the example of very well prepared and cooked steaks, a significant proportion of the flavour in a meal of meat and seafood comes from the herbs, spices and other condiments used to prepare the food. This is especially true of the ever-popular, catch-all wine matching dish: pasta.

[Robin Garr]

Matthew, the author would be me.

Frankly, I will stand by my original statement, <i>in context</i>, which was that wine evolved over several millennia of humankind as an accompaniment to meals in a culture in which a meal assumes a substantial portion of animal protein. The association of meat, poultry or fish with table wine goes back a long way, and they have been essentially designed to go together.

I would argue that this is established, incontrovertible fact, not mere opinion.

But that being said, please note that the article - and a large body of my writing about food and wine over the past 20 years - is devoted to an exploration of excellent meatless matches that work in spite of this subtext.

Taken out of context, the simple quote suggests that I'm preaching against matching vegetarian fare and wine, and this is simply not so. If anything, the opposite is the case, and I suspect that I've written more about this topic - and offered more specific matching suggestions - than any other wine writer in any medium.

As for the other half of your argument, certainly it's all right to sip wine as an aperitif or an after-dinner drink.

In this case, though, it <i>is</i> a matter of opinion: In my personal view, the synergies that occur in the pairing of food and wine are such that that they really seem meant to go together, and as a matter of preference, I'd rather enjoy wine with a meal (and food with wine) than in isolation.

Matt,
my wife is a vegetarian so I know from where you come. Although it makes traveling to meat loving countries like France or Germany difficult (she is a German ex-pat), necessity is the mother of invention. There are many middle-eastern, North African and southeast asian meals that go splendidly with wine, as well as more traditional seasonal vegetable dishes found throughout Europe. You might not ever find the perfect meal to go with a bruising Napa Cabernet, but is Napa Cab worth drinking anyway? Nein...

While many classic pairings are based on flesh, certainly there is a lot of fun to be had matching vegetarian dishes with wine. The easiest and most classic that jumps to my mind is mushrooms, one of the great pairings for red wine in general.

Do you eat dairy? Cheese of course has a great history with wne, though not the easy match some think it is.

This is something a group of us together for a Usenet FAQ (vegetable and herb sections):

Many types are a great combo with earthy Pinot Noirs (especially crimini, cepes, oysters, chanterelle, black trumpet, matsutake, etc). Crimini or porcini in cream sauces do well with Chardonnay based wines. Creamed morels or morels en croute call out for a fragrant (not big) Burgundy, though others reach for Côte-Rotie and Temperanillo. Grilled portobellos usually are a good match for Cabernet, Merlot, or Nebbiolo based wine. Enokis and straw depend a lot on presentation (true for everything of course), but more about sparkling or characterful white (Loire Chenin Blanc, Viognier, Pinot Gris or Kabinett Riesling).

Truffles, black or white:
Best nebbiolo based wine you can find, Barbaresco can be even better than Barolo for this match.

Artichokes - can be a wine killer, but try lighter whites

Asparagus - for some a strange match, but try NZ Sauvignon Blanc or Grüner Veltliner. For white asparagus, try Alsace Muscat.

Fresh tomatoes - acidic whites

Ratatouille - fresh whites or roses

Salad- vinegary dressings are a wine killer. Drink water!

Herbs, Seasonings, and Sauces:

Chiles: off-dry wines (especially Riesling) and sparkling wines are usually suggested, though this is more in the category of "less harm" than complementing.

Dill: Good with brighter whites, especially Sauvignon Blanc

Garlic- a good wine match, if cooked. Raw garlic does better with whites

Black pepper- better with big reds. Some find an affinity with Syrah.

Sage: does well with whites with body (bigger Grüner Veltliner, Chardonnay, or Sauvignon Blanc based wines), as lighter reds with good acidity, especially Sangiovese based wines, or mature reds that have resolved their tannins.

Tarragon: better with whites than reds

Rosemary: in small doses, very versatile with both reds and whites.

Saffron: bright whites

Oregano: good with Sangiovese, Barbera

Ginger: Riesling, Gewürztraminer, Pinot Gris.

Cardamom: Try Rhone or other aromatic whites

Cream sauces- look for whites with good acidity to cut through fat.

Hollandaise: try Sauvignon Blanc

Pesto: bright Italian white (Soave or Fiano)

Aioli: Provence rose, Rhone whites

Fresh tomato sauces- while many folks again look to reds, try a white with good acidity as an alternative

We spent two years as vegetarians per wife's doctor's erronous directions (details are another story). I did't have a problem with it, nor did it cut down on our wine consumption.

We found that most of the dishes we liked were quite hot, and in fact had to be tamed down to our taste. They were still on the warm side though and wines that usually match with spicy dishes went fine with them. During that period we drank a lot of Riesling, Gewurztraminer, Zinfandel, Syrah/Shiraz, blends from Oz, and Spanish Reds.

[Jenise]

Something else no one has addressed, Matt, and not because they don't know but because they opted to tackle another part of the whole, is the part about wine without food period. Yes, wine all on its own is okay and often wonderful. In fact, the fruit bomb style of wine is usually better on its own than with food--it can be like a cocktail. But some wines (the high acid, low fruit kind) taste dull and incomplete without food (it can be a sound off vs. sound on kind of difference) but bright and delicious with, and some young reds need/prefer protein to mop up tannins.

That's what Robin's description is addressing.

Believe me, much as I'd give up beef and lamb before I'd give up tomatoes or grain, it's with complete objectivity that I say nothing tastes better with a good cabernet than beef or lamb. But can we do without meat? Heck yes.

several millennia of humankind as an accompaniment to meals in a culture in which a meal assumes a substantial portion of animal protein..

I agree that certain wines show well when accompanied with meat, but I'm wondering about the historical accuracy of this statement? Because I thought that having meals on a regular basis with "a substantial portion of animal protein" were a fairly recent (i.e. 20th century) development?

Haven't you all heard of a loaf of bread, a hunk of cheese, a glass of wine and thou?

I don't think so. By Pepys time a man was considered very poor if only he had meat once a week. Now the very poor were a fair percentage of the population, but probably not drinking wine.

I think rural France has a pretty long tradition of meat with most meals.

If meat was rare, they wouldn't have prohibited it for Lent.

I think grilling can be very useful with vegetables and red wine. We had some beautiful sweet peppers that were halved, grilled, and then stuffed with a mix of rice, tomatos, crushed almonds, onion, and diced zucchini and then baked. It was a very decent match with a red St Joseph. The smoky grilled sweet pepper was great with the syrah.

Dale, thanks for the great list of wine food combos, very nice.

[Robin Garr]

I agree that certain wines show well when accompanied with meat, but I'm wondering about the historical accuracy of this statement? Because I thought that having meals on a regular basis with "a substantial portion of animal protein" were a fairly recent (i.e. 20th century) development?

Rahsaan, Dale beat me too it. It might well be only since the Industrial Revolution (or even more recently) that middle-class families could count on meat daily. But even before Pepys, wouldn't you guess that wine and meat were on the tables of the Normans who gave French names like "beef" and "veal" and "pork" to the meats that the peasants in the barnyard were calling "cow" and "calf" and "pig" on the hoof? Not to mention game, which few people shunned all the way back to hunter-gatherer societies.

I'm sure that meat was a rare treat for the peasants and serfs who formed the mass of society, but at least outside of Latin countries, they likely weren't eating much meat or drinking much wine.

I don't think so. By Pepys time a man was considered very poor if only he had meat once a week. Now the very poor were a fair percentage of the population, but probably not drinking wine.

I think rural France has a pretty long tradition of meat with most meals..

I admit that I lack in-depth information, but eating meat everyday is not the same as eating a giant steak to match with a tannic red wine, and my understanding was that pre-Industrial Revolution people were more likely to eat smaller portions of meat (i.e. bits of beef dribbled in a soup), which would not necessarily be the centerpiece for a food/wine matching.

Come to think of it, I wonder about the history of food/wine matching, because so much of the wine from the middle ages was crude in comparison to what we drink today. So I still have a hard time believing that the synergy of meat-wine pairings were central to the development of wine over several millenia.

But I could be wrong.

Actually, I was just responding to your question re meat. I don't especially embrace the idea that wine and meat were that intertwined. In fact, I'm a bit of a heretic re the idea that whatever food was grown in a certain area, well then the wine from that area is a perfect match. Often there are some great matches that way, but there are flubs too, and frankly main determinant of a style of wine for a particular area is probably what produced the most fruit there (believe me, no one was controlling yield in 17th century).

My guess is 90% of the beef in the 18th century was boiled

[Robin Garr]

the idea that whatever food was grown in a certain area, well then the wine from that area is a perfect match. Often there are some great matches that way, but there are flubs too, and frankly main determinant of a style of wine for a particular area is probably what produced the most fruit there (believe me, no one was controlling yield in 17th century).

For the sake of debate, Dale, this seems a bit of a strawman. I don't know any serious wine geeks who would suggest otherwise. I do think it's entirely reasonable, though, that local food customs may have changed to accommodate local wines. "Hey, let's put some tomatoes on this spaghetti so it will stand up to the Chianti" seems much more likely to me than "Let's craft a wine that will go with our ragu."

My guess is 90% of the beef in the 18th century was boiled

Interesting and likely hypothesis. Maybe more true in cities than in rural areas, though? It seems pretty darn easy to roast a haunch of venison over a fireplace or campfire.

I'm sure there is a degree of that. But don't forget tomatoes are far more prevalent the farther south you go, including the places with low-acid reds. My guess is it has more to do with where tomatoes grow well (hot places). I think that's the basis of most regional cuisine-what grows here.

My guess is that the boiling is less to do with cooking method ease than dealing with big cuts with fat and bone, and not wanting to lose any calories or flavor to "drippage"

Thanks for the various suggestions for food pairings. I am a voracious lover of cheese and that tends to be what I'll eat with wine nowadays - it makes a nice late-evening snack with a good glass.

The argument about wine having developed to go with food is an interesting one. I don't doubt for a second that there's some truth to it, but I find it difficult to buy that wine flavours have developed over the centuries specifically to pair with food. In addition to some of the arguments already given here I'd add a couple more.

First I'd reiterate what I said above about meat frequently being served flavoured. This is possibly even more true of historical cookery where spices were used to disguise the flavour of badly preserved meat.

Also if it were true, then I'd expect the same to be true of ale - another alcoholic drink which can develop a range of flavours beyond it's initial ingredients and which is commonly drunk with a meal. But I think you'd have a hard time making a case that ale flavours have been developed to pair with specific dishes.

[q]Frankly, I will stand by my original statement, in context[/q]

If you go back and check, I think you'll find I didn't take it out of context - there's nothing on that page in itself that explains your wider opinions on the subject or the efforts you've obviously made to try and improve the situation as best you can.

I admit I didn't read the linked article at the time though, which is interesting reading and does make things somewhat clearer

Politics, relgion, sex... People's taste is their taste.

This having been said, I feel it would be a sin to serve a *great* red wine with a vegetarian meal.

If I (knowingly) had a vegetarian to dinner, I would go out of my way to provide a meatless option, different from the other diners. But, quite honestly, I don't think I would pull out one of my best bottles.

Best regards,
Alex R.

I feel it would be a sin to serve a *great* red wine with a vegetarian meal.

Best regards,
Alex R.

Try it with grilled mushrooms, but of course we'd first have to argue over what "great wine" is.

As to the food/wine historical debate, after having done much research for my books, I've come to the conclusion that, although Classical Greece brought wine to the general public, probably even until the eighteenth century, most wine was consumed by the elite, and what wasn't was drek.

In that regard, the wine and meat protein concept holds up, since the elite ate the meat and the drek drinkers ate the produce. There is evidence in literature that wine and food pairings were going on in European locales at least since Medieval times, and probably before then, but I'm not certain if it was anything more than making use of what they had before them. Perhaps, that was the start of local food pairing with local wine.

Matt:

I was a vegetarian long before I enjoyed wine. Wine can enhance the enjoyment of food or vice versa. Jenise is a sensitive to the west coast wine world. Her assessment is right on target. You will find the wines that complement your cooking or taste. The acid of wine will help the digestion of protein if you don't eat too much carbs. The average ph of wine is 3.whatever. Protein in the stomach needs a high acid environment to digest.

As you know vegetarians need as much protein as meat eaters that is why Jenise has it right. When we cook we have protein in our meals from tofu or beans. A meal of organic cannellini bean sauce (with white wine, fresh herbs, chantrell mushrooms and vegi stock) with chopped biodynamic SNAKE GOURD CUCUZZI ITALIAN HEIRLOOM Squash and tender baby organic chard and other greens from the local farmers market on top of soy/semolina pasta works great with a Barbera that has the fruit I like and good acid structure. Deaver 04 signature Barbera has great fruit and acid despite 15% alc.

For sipping a Zin or Viognier works great too IMHO.

This is all local stuff, but forgive me for indulging in the region I love to live in.

If I (knowingly) had a vegetarian to dinner...I don't think I would pull out one of my best bottles...

So that's why we skipped the verticals of Mouton, Lafite, and Haut Brion when I came to dinner

Rahssan,

Well, no, not exactly .

For a start, I don't have those bottles.

Also, if a true friend and wine connoisseur who also happened to be a vegetarian (yes, such a thing is theoretically possible ) came over, I'd be willing to overcome my prejudice. For a prejudice it is, I admit.

My point is this: a wine like 1986 Lafite deserves fine food, and I cannot accept that a bunch of mushrooms or a nut roast fits the bill.

In other words, I'd go meatless for many a wine to accommodate a vegetarian (an extremely rare species in France). But a great wine deserves the right setting, and the right food.

I do not think that believe that there is such a thing as great vegetarian cuisine to go with correspondingly great wines.

Best regards,
Alex R.

I do not think that believe that there is such a thing as great vegetarian cuisine to go with correspondingly great wines..

I'm tempted to acknowledge your point for red wine (certainly for white wine it makes no sense ). But, then when you mention mature wines I am tempted to argue that once the tannins are resolved you no longer have that need for meaty fat to cut through the structure, and as long as the dish is sufficiently delicate, subtle, and savory, you should be fine.

Hi Rahsaan,

Thanks for your very open-minded reply to what must have seemed like a fairly provocative post...

What's more, I think you're right about the red wine/white wine divide. Even a grand cru white Burgundy would pair beautifully , for instance, witha cheese soufflé

We are all conditionned by our upbringing. My difficulty to relate to a meatless wine dinner is surely grounded in my personal history, and perhaps I need to open my eyes a little more...

I like Algerian food, Chinese food, Thai food, food from a number of European countries... It's not that I don't like vegetarian food either! It's just getting over that hump of instinctively not considering it "company food".

As you know, you have a far easier time of it in the States than over here, where vegetarians provoke incredulity, and pity!

My wife is allergic to gluten and can eat nothing with wheat in it. I'm used to people finding this incredibly complicated when, in fact, it isn't - and there are lots of alternatives. So it is with vegetarians.

The long and the short of it is this: just do your best to respect people's needs and preferences, especially if it doesn't entail going way out of your way.

And if you come back to my house, Rahsaan, I promise to serve you food you can eat *and* a very fine wine.

Best regards,
Alex

Rahssan,


My point is this: a wine like 1986 Lafite deserves fine food, and I cannot accept that a bunch of mushrooms or a nut roast fits the bill.

Best regards,
Alex R.

Alex, excuse my bluntness, but you obviously can't cook.

Pairing wine with food has more to do with texture than with type of protein. But you can only understand that when you first understand things like the relationship between fats in foods and wine acidity, and the relationship between creativity in cooking and frying or nut rolling.

I should also point out that I am not a vegetarian, and I always wonder how a vegetarian tourist can survive more than a week in France...